Aside of al the fuss about what B&O should do/have done/do wrong ect, let's focus on what one can buy at this moment from the productrange: I think the combination beosound 4 + beolab 9 is the best value-for-money at the moment from B&O. (cheapest but most efficient player + very good but not the most expensive speaker). Any comment on this?

Er... I agree

I agree.  However, why is there only one ICEpower amplifier in each speaker instead of three?  The other two amplifiers are the usual analog amplifiers.  I thought ICEpower is state of the art and suppose to be better. 

I would say BeoLab 3s are very good value.

I agree with the Beosound 4, although the design has never been my favourite. For speakers I'd either choose the Beolab 9's or 3's. Both good value I reckon.

I am not the biggest fan of the BS4 but that's not to say I still don't like it, I do, to a point. But I certainly wouldn't pair it up with BL9s! I'd put it with BL8s, BL6s or BL4s and second-hand ones at that. If I am going to invest £5,000 on a pair of speakers then I am going to invest in a player to match it so my first choice would be to wait for the new BS5, secondly use a BC2, or thirdly use BS3000 or BS9000 with it. I am sure the BS4 would sound great and its not the aulity of sound I am disputing, rather the mix of products, which in my mind is taking a short cut. It would be like having a car where the front is a Porsche and the back is a Ford. I am sure many will disagree but that's how I look at it. I don't like grey areas. I am either all in or all out, nothing in the middle. But we are all different :)

Simon.

linder:

I agree.  However, why is there only one ICEpower amplifier in each speaker instead of three?  The other two amplifiers are the usual analog amplifiers.  I thought ICEpower is state of the art and suppose to be better. 

The ICE power concept is newer and has adventages like output for instance, but that does not mean that the sound is for sure better. I reckon that B&O has a reason why they used class AB amplifiers for midrange and high.

The Beonic Man:

I am not the biggest fan of the BS4 but that's not to say I still don't like it, I do, to a point. But I certainly wouldn't pair it up with BL9s! I'd put it with BL8s, BL6s or BL4s and second-hand ones at that. If I am going to invest £5,000 on a pair of speakers then I am going to invest in a player to match it so my first choice would be to wait for the new BS5, secondly use a BC2..

I have the BS4 + BL3 combo and it looks and sounds great. Originally I wanted the BC2 instead, but I was put off by the price (Simon, it's nearly £3K!) when it was available as a DVD-only product.

The next purchase is a 3200 stand for the BS4, so I can put the cables through the stand!

I don't understand how the BS4 could be viewed as a basic, or budget product, it runs rings around the ouverture in build quality and refinement, the BS4 has all the little details covered, and owning one lets you see that. I don't see anything wrong with pairing the BS4 with a pair of BL9, in fact it makes the most sense. BL9's don't need anything more than what the BS4 offers. It's also a better CD player to me, as it reads almost anything! Scratched CD's normally aren't an issue, which is really convenient.

However, nothing beats the way the BC2 looks on the floor stand with it's wings opening, stunning!

LOL! I knew I was going to get some stick with that post!! No, don't get me wrong, it is a decent product the BS4 so I am not really sure what I am rambling on about. I guess when I first saw it I just didn't think it had the B&O 'WOW!' factor that's all. I guess with the other products like BS3000 and BS9000 they are so timeless and have stood the test of time that I would rather see those paired up with the Lab 9s. I agree with the previous post about the BC2 on its stand and how great it looks when it opens up. That is a neat B&O design.

I must admit, I heard the BS4 playing a CD through a pair of Lab 3000s at the Bath showroom and I was very impressed. The newest speakers in the range are top notch and everything I would expect from B&O. In some way, for me the BS4 wasn't quite up their to match. Put it this way, its a product that grows on me evey time I see it. I certainly think its a very good product, just a little shy of having that extra special touch for me to call it a great product, that's all.

I do know what you mean about the price Chris and you made the right decision of course. Sometimes we can get carried away talking about what goes great with what but paying for it at the end of the day is a different matter! Did you consider a BS9000 or have you already had one and you fancied a change? Was it that having an SD card was an important factor?

Simon.

The Beonic Man:

LOL! I knew I was going to get some stick with that post!! No, don't get me wrong, it is a decent product the BS4 so I am not really sure what I am rambling on about. I guess when I first saw it I just didn't think it had the B&O 'WOW!' factor that's all. I guess with the other products like BS3000 and BS9000 they are so timeless and have stood the test of time that I would rather see those paired up with the Lab 9s. I agree with the previous post about the BC2 on its stand and how great it looks when it opens up. That is a neat B&O design.

I must admit, I heard the BS4 playing a CD through a pair of Lab 3000s at the Bath showroom and I was very impressed. The newest speakers in the range are top notch and everything I would expect from B&O. In some way, for me the BS4 wasn't quite up their to match. Put it this way, its a product that grows on me evey time I see it. I certainly think its a very good product, just a little shy of having that extra special touch for me to call it a great product, that's all.

I do know what you mean about the price Chris and you made the right decision of course. Sometimes we can get carried away talking about what goes great with what but paying for it at the end of the day is a different matter! Did you consider a BS9000 or have you already had one and you fancied a change? Was it that having an SD card was an important factor?

Simon.

I partly agree over the wow factor. I'm not actually a big fan of the BS9000 in 2008. Two years ago it looked ok, four years ago it was fantastic. Now it's a little long-in-the-tooth. If I bought a BS9000 now, I'd feel I'd bought something that I wanted as a kid, and had to wait until I was 30 to be able to afford it.

The BC2 is a wow product, and still is. Indeed, it was my preferred option. Snag was, I couldn't stump up the £5K required nor justify saving up for the additional expense. More I thought about it, the more it wasn't worth the additional £1K. BC2 audio-only version is a little cheaper now, though. Might be worth thinking about. BC2 audio + BL3's?

No, I used the SD card once and it had playback issues, so gave up. I think you can only use certain SD cards up to a certain size. If not, it jumps tracks and so on. So, the experience wasn't great. It's far easier to connect the Airport Express, store my music on a network drive, then stream it wirelessly to the BS4.

One thing I do disagree with is the BS4 on the floor stand. Others do not like this setup, whereas I prefer it on the stand (and is my next short-term B&O purchase, along with BL3 stands)! The thing is though, now I've bought that BV7-40, and tax due end of this month, I don't really have any spare cash.

Good post Simon. I agree with your opinions about the BeoSound 4. I like BeoSound 4 and everything it offers, but as you have said the design wasn't striking when I first saw it. I think this might be because it's all black and all the details only appear when the glass door opens up. BeoCenter 2 on the other hand is complete magic for me, but the 5000 smackers as already mentioned is pretty steep. I still think the BeoCenter 2 is worth it and it is my planned next buy. BeoSound 4 is good value in my opinion, but I would prefer to spend a bit more for the brilliance of BeoCenter 2.

"If I bought a BS9000 now, I'd feel I'd bought something that I wanted as a kid, and had to wait until I was 30 to be able to afford it." Thanks for this Chris it brought a big smile to my face! I always loved it as a younger guy but I didn't have to wait till I was 30 until I could afford it, I had to wait until I was 37! And boy, what a wait! I love it though, truly I do. It's such a wonderful feeling and it has been a dream come true for me to splash out on what I have. I know the BS9000 isn't to everyone's liking so I can see why you like the BC2 as a more modern and up to date product. There's no doubt that the BC2 with BL3s is going to be an amazing setup. One I would have had myself if I ended up going the BV5 route instead of the BV7-40 ... we won't go there! Anyway, go for it and enjoy it!

The floor stand made for the BS4 is one I rather like actually but I didn't realise you couldn't hide the cables. That seems completly daft considering all other stands allow you to. This is one of those B&O moments that I just don't get!

Considering the tax situation would it be worth waiting to see what the BS5 is all about and then re-evaluate later on in the year? If its between the three of them then I would have to say BS5, BC2 and BS4 in that order but of course that's assuming the BS5 is up to the job but at £5,000 it ought to be!

Simon.

The Beonic Man:

"If I bought a BS9000 now, I'd feel I'd bought something that I wanted as a kid, and had to wait until I was 30 to be able to afford it." Thanks for this Chris it brought a big smile to my face!

Oops, I didn't realise that you had a 9000! It's a darned good product, but what I was trying to say was that it was a product that wowed me 10 years ago, but now I could (potentially) afford one, it reminds me that I liked it 10 years ago. But, perhaps as you've mentioned yourself, B&O's later products lack some of this value and that's why they've still got the 9000 on the market.

The BS4 floor stand is very neat and the vertical pipe is rather narrow. Looks neat, but impractical. You'd be surprised how many cables (dab, aux etc) I had coming out of the back!

Absolutly Chris, I agree with what you say. Very suprised about B&O not thinking things through properly with this stand. Its so strange given their history of designs that seemed to miss nothing at all. Yes I did buy a BS9000 at the same time I bought my 7-40. I also bought it new. It wasn't a problem for me at all because that was the product my B&O dream was all about. Its bizarre isn't it? I spent three times that amount on the 7-40 yet it was the BS9000 that realised my dream and not the tv. I should have gone the BV5 route at the begining and just got on with it because one thing I've learnt about B&O is that its all about where your heart is. The BV5 was also a dream like the BS9000. The 7-40 was just a product! I bought it for practical reasons but it wasn't where my heart was. Anyway, there we go. We live and learn! Out of interest what product gives you the greatest pleasure? It may be one you own now or one you have previously owned. You have to pick one, even though I am sure they all give you pleasure! For me its the BS9000 and prior to that it was the BS2300. Priot to that the AV9000 tv and of course the BeoLink 7000 remote.

Henry, what are you favs too? 

Simon.

The Beonic Man:

Out of interest what product gives you the greatest pleasure?

Good question. I would say my BV7-40 doesn't offer me the 'pleasure' that my older BV7-32 offered. More people remarked on the BV7-32 picture quality than the BV7-40, for example, which further reinforces my slight disappointment with the set. Sky SD is fine, but only if you watch the TV from about 4 metres away. SD-based football is just too pixelated and wasn't like than on my 2004-model BV7-32.

I would say that I'm pleased with my BS4 + BL3 combo. When pushed fairly hard, it delivers. Sound quality is excellent.

However, I'd probably say that it's the B&O items that I do not have that I could imagine would give me most pleasure. I love the design of the BC2, but could never quite justify the price (now the audio-only version is cheaper, if I was going to buy an audio unit + speakers right now, I'd get the BC2 audio over the BS4). I also love both the BL9's and the BL5's. If I could afford, I could imagine that either would be a superb investment.

Simon, I could honestly say that a latter-day version of the BV5 would generate better picture quality than your MKIII BV7-40 under SD. Put it this way, my BV7-32 was less pixelated, thus a better overall visual experience.

Out of interest, which center speaker do you use with your BV7 Simon? I think it's a shame you don't feel the same way you do for your BV7 as you do with your BS9000, is this perhaps because it is a TV?

Of those that I have owned or grown up with, my favourite products have in most cases been audio products. My absolute favourite remains my father's 1995 Ouverture. I was only a boy at the time, yet I remember how amazing it was when we took it out of the box together. The sliding doors, lights and clamper were stunning. I grew up with quite a lot of B&O, but the Ouverture was special. Of my recent B&O, I love my BeoLab 3s! Everything about them is brilliant. 

Hi Henry,

I use the BeoLab 7-2 speaker which is pretty good. The original plan was to have a BV5 (non-HD), BeoLab 9s at the front, BeoLab 3s at the back and the BeoLab 7-1 as centre speaker. A BeoCentre 2 to go with it all for the playing of DVDs. I should have stuck with this in hindsight but nevermind. Instead, I bought the 7-40 with the 7-2 speaker because when the engineers came round to survey the flat they said it was not right acoustically to accomodate surround sound. I don't doubt that they were right, but I still should of bought the products I preferred. Logic and reason aren't always the right way to go - just look at politics! Anyway, I am sure my 7-40 will prove a better trade-in so that's the main thing. And I will trade it in at some point, probably for the BV9 in a couple of years. We'll see how it goes. My feelings about the 7-40 are not because its a TV no! I just don't think its a great design that's all. The BV5 was modelled on a well known painting which I love. It would have complimented my home and my existing artwork a lot more than the 7-40. Anyway, there we go. I am quite a perfectionist so always fiddling and never quite reach 100% with things!

My favoruite product was also the Ouverture. I had the BeoSound 2300. A magnificent piece.

Simon. 

In terms of what you get for your money, I personally find the BeoLab 5s to be the best in the B&O speaker range. Yes, it's a lot of money, heck of a lot, but you get much, much more than what you pay for sonically. BeoLab 9s second and 3s third.

The televisions are the trouble with their value in my opinion.

You cannot be believable and be taken serieous when you charge 16000 euro for a 50 plasma with a Panasonic screen nowadays.

Now they think they found out the wheel again with a camera on the new Beovision4 .

I saw a $7,500 dollar price mentioned for the 50 inch new Beovison 4 without speaker but if this includes the Beosystem 3 which was always part of the Beovision 4, there must be a dramaticly price-reduction on it's way.

http://www.i4u.com/article13929.html

Bingo:

Now they think they found out the wheel again with a camera on the new Beovision4 .

I saw a $7,500 dollar price mentioned for the 50 inch new Beovison 4 without speaker but if this includes the Beosystem 3 which was always part of the Beovision 4, there must be a dramaticly price-reduction on its'w way.

http://www.i4u.com/article13929.html

Erm, it doesn't. The price ($7500) is for the plasma screen only. So, repackaged Panasonic 50" for $7500, without the BS3. Gulp.

moxxey:

Bingo:

Now they think they found out the wheel again with a camera on the new Beovision4 .

I saw a $7,500 dollar price mentioned for the 50 inch new Beovison 4 without speaker but if this includes the Beosystem 3 which was always part of the Beovision 4, there must be a dramaticly price-reduction on its'w way.

http://www.i4u.com/article13929.html

Erm, it doesn't. The price ($7500) is for the plasma screen only. So, repackaged Panasonic 50" for $7500, without the BS3. Gulp.

 

So you not even can connect a thing for 7500 dollar ?

That is exactly what will bring B&O into bigger trouble. They are out of the reality in A/V-land.

I doubt they will find dealers enough in the future who want to sell this hugely overpriced stuff.

 

Bingo:

moxxey:

Bingo:

Now they think they found out the wheel again with a camera on the new Beovision4 .

I saw a $7,500 dollar price mentioned for the 50 inch new Beovison 4 without speaker but if this includes the Beosystem 3 which was always part of the Beovision 4, there must be a dramaticly price-reduction on its'w way.

http://www.i4u.com/article13929.html

Erm, it doesn't. The price ($7500) is for the plasma screen only. So, repackaged Panasonic 50" for $7500, without the BS3. Gulp.

 

So you not even can connect a thing for 7500 dollar ?

That is exactly what will bring B&O into bigger trouble. They are out of the reality in A/V-land.

I doubt they will find dealers enough in the future who want to sell this hugely overpriced stuff.

 

The price of their top end systems isn't an issue, at least in the UK (the US market may be different). The kind of people who can afford a high end B&O system are willing to pay the prices.

Alex:

Bingo:

moxxey:

Bingo:

Now they think they found out the wheel again with a camera on the new Beovision4 .

I saw a $7,500 dollar price mentioned for the 50 inch new Beovison 4 without speaker but if this includes the Beosystem 3 which was always part of the Beovision 4, there must be a dramaticly price-reduction on its'w way.

http://www.i4u.com/article13929.html

Erm, it doesn't. The price ($7500) is for the plasma screen only. So, repackaged Panasonic 50" for $7500, without the BS3. Gulp.

 

So you not even can connect a thing for 7500 dollar ?

That is exactly what will bring B&O into bigger trouble. They are out of the reality in A/V-land.

I doubt they will find dealers enough in the future who want to sell this hugely overpriced stuff.

 

The price of their top end systems isn't an issue, at least in the UK (the US market may be different). The kind of people who can afford a high end B&O system are willing to pay the prices.

With a consoiderable drop in Uk sales in particular- with worse to come when one takes out stock supplies to dealers, clearly the kind of people who can afford it are NOT willing to pay the prices and increasingly will not

Im just trying to get behind dealer thinking here and various comments one hears regarding this issue from dealers.

I just dont believe the sort of the people that buy B&O -----

1. dont care what it costs at all- skys the limit. 7 times the cost 15 times the cost- not an issue

2 are oblivious to any other brands,  and the fact that they perform better for 1/7 of the price

3. dont care if its technically years behind ( in some cases)

 

Interstingly, in my block in london there are many well off individuals that have B&O  all bought about 4/5 years ago bs9000 bl800 avant ect.

pay £11,900 for a plasma- no way comes the reply, £8500 for a BV7not likely.

They all intend to move to other better quality products for less money- so the sector who dont care what the costs are- must be a small proportion of barking millionaires and you cant run a business on that!

Alex:

The price of their top end systems isn't an issue, at least in the UK (the US market may be different). The kind of people who can afford a high end B&O system are willing to pay the prices.

But sales are down 12% in the UK Alex. Are you sure? I can't see that (the BS4 update) helping increase sales.