Mr10Percent:

TWG:

You can't demand the same prices as years before while moving production to China or Eastern Europe. As many of us can see the products just DO NOT have the old quality and I just hope that they have enough intelligence in Denmark to see this and to keep production in Denmark. 

If not it's the same as BOSE: Now "Made in China" with lousy qualtiy and ONLY high prices, nothing else! And don't argue "oh we have to be profitable etc.!" Have a look at the german company "T + A". They even write in their adds that it is made in their home country and this is what people who want to spend some serious money WANT to have!

"Made in China" is availabe in every supermarket etc. So why should I buy B&O anymore when they do the same?

 

Sorry, cant agree B&O are lousy quality. Cant agree that they a made mostly in China. Cant agree that “Made in China” is also a negative connotation. China will make anything you want (apart from cheese apparently) at a price and a specification. That price is probably one of the most competitive in the world-wide manufacturing arena which is why they currently have a GDP growth of 37%.

I used to listen to football fans harp on about black and foreign plays here in the UK. The answer is simple. They were better than the rest of us and wanted less for doing more.

Taking things a little further and back to the point, I am sure if we could look at the statistics of faulty electronic equipment (hifi/AV) manufacture, you will see the following trends (in any factory in the world).

1. The higher the throughput or capacity the lower the failure rate.

1. That people making/assembling fine electronics (of any nationality) probably contribute to a greater failure rate of than that of machines making the same components.

1. That if anyone on this forum has any corroborating or anecdotal data (or even data to the contrary), that the failure rate of B&O products in the 70’s and 80’s was probably higher than it is today. (points 1 and 2 above).

The old gear probably was more serviceable with an absence or low usage of integrated PCB’s or complex chipsets than of comparable items of today.

1. That “classic” items such as the BS5000, BL7000 remote and the such were regular visitors to the service centre. It is only the advent of the internet and forums like these that a much greater sample of product holders can relate to one another. Sure there are going to be some duff’s. I’ve had a couple in my time but they were always replaced without question by my dealer. However, statistically, what is the real difference between now and 20 years ago?

1. What was the reliability on the incredibly small volume of BS8000’s and 9000’s. These items were phenomenally expensive in the 1980’s. Was it any better or worse than today?

1. That the volume of B&O products being produced is greater now than at any time in its history. Does this mean it is even more desirable or even more affordable than ever before? Or does volume imply both? Where is the evidence to support less people can afford B&O. Where is the evidence to support people don’t buy as much?

On the price front, I have looked at a number of products over the last 25 years. Adjusting for today’s money (UK RPI), a lot of comparable products are similar in terms of their capability and niche:-

• A Beocentre 9000 in today’s money would be £2,600, comparable to say a Beocentre 2. The Beocentre 7002 would be £1,900.

• The Beosystem 8000 and Beosystem 5500 would be approximately £5,000 and £4,000 respectively (excluding remotes or loudspeakers or stands).

• A Beocentre 2300 would be £1,400 alongside the comparable Beosound 4 today.

• On the loudspeaker front, the Beolab 5000 panel speaker would today retail at approx £1,600 and the Beovox MS150.2 at £2,000. The Penta (MK1) would retail today at £3,000. Thus the BL3 and BL9 could be called comparable and favourable in terms of integral amplification, performance and price.

• The BL5 is so far out in it’s own league it is arguable beyond comparison of any B&O loudspeaker before it.

• On the TV front, there is evidence of a margin gap between old and new. LX2800 for example would be £1,900 today and comparable to the BV6 of £3700.

• The integrated A/V solutions are again more difficult as what you get today is significantly more than yesterday. A point could be argued that an AV9000 (Monitor, centre speaker and VCR but without the control centre) would retail today at over £10,500. A BV7-40 is £8,400 but with superior sound generation and distribution.  Also the AV9000’s cloth curtain was definitely no stranger to the service department!

Thus, I could argue that today’s B&O line-up is no so far out of step with it’s counterparts 25 years ago. I would like to see the break down statistics but would like to think it is better now than ever before and although I don’t have any rose coloured glasses, I would like to bet if we could revisit 1986, the LX2800 was good but arguably not that much better than a top of the line Philips, Sony or whoever had the number 2 mantle on TV’s back then in terms of performance to the price charged.

Great debates going on this week. We must get more senior B&O officials fired! Livens things up!

10%

On the price adjusted RPI firgure you mention; its an interesting point and of course accurate, the products today are no more expensive in real terms BUT over the past 8 years we have had huge wholescale price deflation in the audio and video business and large advances in technology. I admire the Bs9000 and the bl8000 but they are prehistoric in electronic terms.

 

A very appropriate point relates to the LX2800 this was my first B&O TV- Yes it was good, certainly slighlty better in vision than a Sony BUT the sound was a huge improvement, unmatched by any TV at the time, in addition it was in rosewood with a unique super slim profile for the size of screen; placed in the corner of a room it gave the impression of a sleekness of todays flatscreens. I recal it was double the price of a Sony at the time. So using the RPI method what products can I buy now from B&O that perform even closely to a leading brand at double the price??

Pioneer gen 8 panel £1700  BV4 £12800 thats 7.5 times the cost.

BV7 £8400 with a video performance level that can be matched on a screen costing 7 times less.( although i notice one was careful to say superior sound generation!- )

 

'

Mr10Percent:

Isnt the market place and choice wonderful?

10%

Not when you're a Boro fan :)

Mr10Percent:

355f:

On the price adjusted RPI firgure you mention; its an interesting point and of course accurate, the products today are no more expensive in real terms BUT over the past 8 years we have had huge wholescale price deflation in the audio and video business and large advances in technology. I admire the Bs9000 and the bl8000 but they are prehistoric in electronic terms.

Yes but that is the whole point of RPI. 20-25 years ago, the level of disposable income whould have been similar - no the same. Electronics have got cheaper but other things more expensive. Thus the amount one could spend on a luxury item like a BC9000 remains the same and relative. More interestingly, you have to strip the cost of all the extras in say a BV7-40. £2200 for the BL7.2 for a £200 speaker. Lose the DVD, lose the stand, lose the AR glass, lose the DTS. This takes the ratio from 7 time to perhaps 2 or 3 times. I'm not defending it, I'm just arguing we should compare like for like.

In terms of prehistoric electronics. I wonder what we will be writing about the BL5 when it is still in the product portfolio in twenty years time, still unrivaled in its price bracket. Sampling rates may have gone up etc...but what are the chances of another sonic breakthrough? Although not my bag, there is still not many things out there that compare and stack up against a BS9000 or the BL8000 when you look at what they do.

At the end of the day, our expectations have become even greater.

10%

Well it follows therefore that you have to strip out these 'extras'  that the 'other brands' now offer- not just the 'extras' that BnO provide.

Whilst I understand the economics of the debate I purchased a LX2800 in 1987  and it was double the price of the very best Sont Tv at that time. The B&O was a better tv, better sound, better picture and it looked super stylish.

Moving forward to 2008 we have a Pioneer gen 8 for £1700 and a BV4 for £11500 where performance is not that much better- no real difference in looks- no speaker at all- Am i missing something here??thats a 7 times price differential to me

At the end of the day our expectations have become higher because of these huge prices and we start looking elsewhere and question the value. 

Also compare the picture of the LX2800 with that on the BV6. I defy anyone to tell me the BV6 is better! And the sound isn't any better either.

Peter:

Also compare the picture of the LX2800 with that on the BV6. I defy anyone to tell me the BV6 is better! And the sound isn't any better either.

Compare any of the L/LS/LX/MX to a BV6 and the picture will be better IMO. Even the older 5xxx/7xxx/8xxx series would be better IMO.

 

 

Craig

I rarely rejoice in hearing that someone has lost their job, and I certainly wish TB well.  I obviously don't know the reason that he was let go, but the discussion that it has prompted has brought up some points that many of us have been trumpeting for a while (even on the old forum), and, as such, is a timely discussion.  I, therefore, couldn't help reiterating a few things that I've said in the past as I see this thread and this website as my best potential way to reach B&O and offer them my feelings (from the perspective of a lowly but loyal customer) regarding their company and it's future.  If I didn't deeply care for B&O, I wouldn't make the effort to write these things as I have many other obligations with which to occupy my time (I'm a medical professional, I have three small children, etc. etc.).

For many years, I've felt that B&O was not charting the correct course through the ever-changing and volatile market that audio / visual technology has become.  In my opinion, B&O is too spread out, but their most egreous error is their inexplicable obliviousness to what seems obvious to most well-informed consumers:  AV hardware and software had better integrate well with digital media providers.

What consumers want is ease of use, integration, and some "future-proofness".  These qualities used to be B&O's selling points and, at least part of, the reason for justifying B&O prices.  Of late, B&O's products seem to be integrating fairly well with their own hardware, but B&O is, in my opinion, showing poor foresight as to where the market is going in terms of integrating with digital media.

My humble advice for B&O:  concentrate on your core values that have carried you for so many years - making great hardware (i.e. TVs, stereos and telephones).  Keep making hardware that integrates well and has as many "future-proof" features as possible (i.e. HDMI, digital / optical out, etc.).  However, leave the software and the integration with digital media to companies more adept at navigating the volatile digital media market.  No surprise here, but I feel that B&O should do this via Apple (which, of course, works with every Windows machine via iTunes).  To ride on Apple's coat tails would, in my opinion, be the salvation for a brand marque that none of us want to see disappear, Bang & Olufsen.

Here's an example of how fast things are changing and how B&O won't be able to keep up with these changes on their own.  Read the portion of this (previously posted) article that describes the possibility of using the iPhone and the iPod touch as a remote for all your AV components.  When you see the incredible potential for what Apple could create and command with their software and hardware, it really puts some things in to perspective and makes you realize how solutions like the Beo 5 are antiquated from the start.

 http://www.roughlydrafted.com/2007/12/29/ten-big-predictions-for-apple-in-2008/

I'm also going to re-publish (for the third time - sorry) the letter that I wrote a couple of years ago to TB as I never sent it, yet I think it succinctly explains my humble opinion on where things were and are going.  Please B&O, wake up and smell the coffee.  We want simplicity, future proof-ness, and we want integration with our digital media and the software that we use to put it on our media players, phones, etc.

Here's the letter (it's a couple of years old): 

 

Mr. Torben Ballegaard Sørensen                                                                      January 4, 2006

Bang & Olufsen a/s       

Peter Bangs VEJ15

DK 7600, Struer

Dear Mr. Sørensen,

I am writing in hopes that you might briefly indulge the thoughts of one of your company’s most adamant supporters.

I am a loyal Bang & Olufsen user and have been for the past several years.  I love your company, your company’s history, and, of course, your products.  I literally daydream about B&O equipment.  I am also a loyal Apple computer user having switched from Windows powered machines about five years ago.  Over the past several years, I have sold many of my friends on the virtues of both B&O and Apple products.  In my humble opinion, B&O and Apple share many similar corporate ideals and, therefore, B&O and Apple subsequently share similar customers.  Both companies design simple, ergonomic, and integrated products that appeal to individuals who appreciate technology working “invisibly” in the background to make for a cleaner user experience.  And, both companies value ergonomics and design more so than their respective competitors.

Though B&O and Apple certainly make a few similar products, I likewise see these two companies as more complementary to each other rather than outright competitors.  B&O is primarily an audio / video equipment manufacturer, and Apple is primarily a computer software / hardware manufacturer (and soon to be media distributer).  In my opinion, B&O makes the best A/V equipment and Apple makes the best A/V software.  I foresee Apple’s software becoming increasingly important in the arena of consumer media consumption.  I would therefore very much like to see B&O work more closely with Apple; in fact, I see any union of these two companies’ products as a way of solidifying and guaranteeing B&O’s future presence in the rapidly changing marketplace that is consumer media.

For the past couple of years, I have actually contemplated writing you and enclosing a piece of Apple equipment (a wireless Apple Airport Express WiFi hub) as I would love to somehow convince someone within your company of the elegance of Apple’s software and what I see as Apple’s plan to change the way consumers acquire music and video.  I keep hesitating to do so as I realize that this would seem incredibly audacious on my part - I am not an engineer or audio / video specialist (I am actually a retinal surgeon).  Also, I realize that B&O has it’s own audio / visual software, it’s own “media hub”, and it’s own mp3 player.  Yet, I believe in my heart that Apple is about to change things in a very fundamental way, and I want B&O to be a part of this change.

Just to briefly outline what I see happening to the A/V market from the perspective of a well-informed consumer:  I see Apple’s iTunes software and Apple’s wireless audio and video hubs as revolutionizing the way music and video are acquired and played.  These integrated pieces of software and hardware have changed the way we listen to music in my house - we now send it wirelessly to our B&O stereos from our Apple computers.  These integrated solutions are driven by a magnificently clean user interface that incorporates constantly updating software that also allows for music and videos to be purchased.  And, Apple’s software allows me to do this for either Apple or Windows based computers.  I have also set up this same type of home audio system for many of my friends (using a combination of B&O and Apple equipment), and I have been able to experience first-hand how much people enjoy this particular confluence of technology.  Soon, we will be able to do this with video, too, when Apple releases their “iTV” product (name subject to change).  I fully expect to wirelessly send movies to my B&O television in the very near future.

I believe that Apple’s market share in terms of computer users will start to significantly rise over the next few years, but (more importantly) I believe that Apple’s software and their wireless hubs will find their way in to consumers’ living rooms (regardless of which type of computer, stereo, or TV the consumer owns).  I also believe that Apple will soon introduce some sort of computer based audio-video “server” that will become the proverbial and oft-promised “digital hub” that consumers have anticipated for so long.  And, I believe that this digital hub will (like the iPod and iTunes) be designed for Windows and Apple machines, and (like the iPod and iTunes) become the de facto standard.

My humble suggestion is that B&O find a way to partner with Apple and start using Apple’s software (which runs on Windows and Apple machines) to power your hardware.  I realize that this would represent a fundamental shift in philosophy for B&O away from “in house” software design.  However, if Apple’s CEO, Steve Jobs, were to demo B&O televisions and audio systems utilizing Apple’s forthcoming “media hub” and software, I believe it would be a boon to your company that would actually make it difficult for B&O to keep up with demand.  Likewise, and with all due respect, I see Apple’s software design teams as better than those of any other company (including Microsoft and B&O) as Apple is simply so committed to this vision and so good at designing the “end user experience”.

In talking with some B&O employees, I get the impression that B&O does not contemplate the Apple market much (if I am wrong, please excuse my ignorance).  Part of this may be based on Apple’s seemingly meager market share, but, as I pointed out, I see this as a moot point as Apple’s audio / video software will be independent of computer type.  As an aside, because B&O and Apple attract the same type of consumer, I believe that the percentage of B&O users who also use Apple computers is much higher than the percentage of Apple computer users in the general market place.

Thank you for taking the time to read my overly lengthy letter.  For the record, I do realize how truly ridiculous it must sound having someone like me write someone like you and offer advice about future corporate trends.  I am very passionate about both B&O and Apple, and I so desperately want these two companies’ products to better integrate.  Plus, I obviously feel that some sort of union like the one I am proposing would offer future dividends for B&O as well as secure B&O’s place in an increasingly volatile marketplace.  Please also know that it is not my intention to in any way denigrate B&O’s software, wireless efforts, or the Beomedia product.  On the contrary, my sole impetus in writing this letter was to offer my admittedly amateurish outlook on a topic that I feel has the potential to strongly effect a company that I love very much  - Bang & Olufsen.

Sincerely,

Mark J. Douglas, MD

P.S.  I would love to send you an Apple Airport Express or Apple’s upcoming “iTV” product (when it comes out in a few months) if these are things you might like to personally try.  I only hesitated in doing so out of fear that a package being sent from a consumer to the president of a company might not actually make it in to your hands.  Please do not hesitate to contact me about sending you one of these devices - it would be my honor to do so. 

355f:

Mr10Percent:

355f:

On the price adjusted RPI firgure you mention; its an interesting point and of course accurate, the products today are no more expensive in real terms BUT over the past 8 years we have had huge wholescale price deflation in the audio and video business and large advances in technology. I admire the Bs9000 and the bl8000 but they are prehistoric in electronic terms.

Yes but that is the whole point of RPI. 20-25 years ago, the level of disposable income whould have been similar - no the same. Electronics have got cheaper but other things more expensive. Thus the amount one could spend on a luxury item like a BC9000 remains the same and relative. More interestingly, you have to strip the cost of all the extras in say a BV7-40. £2200 for the BL7.2 for a £200 speaker. Lose the DVD, lose the stand, lose the AR glass, lose the DTS. This takes the ratio from 7 time to perhaps 2 or 3 times. I'm not defending it, I'm just arguing we should compare like for like.

In terms of prehistoric electronics. I wonder what we will be writing about the BL5 when it is still in the product portfolio in twenty years time, still unrivaled in its price bracket. Sampling rates may have gone up etc...but what are the chances of another sonic breakthrough? Although not my bag, there is still not many things out there that compare and stack up against a BS9000 or the BL8000 when you look at what they do.

At the end of the day, our expectations have become even greater.

10%

Well it follows therefore that you have to strip out these 'extras'  that the 'other brands' now offer- not just the 'extras' that BnO provide.

Whilst I understand the economics of the debate I purchased a LX2800 in 1987  and it was double the price of the very best Sont Tv at that time. The B&O was a better tv, better sound, better picture and it looked super stylish.

Moving forward to 2008 we have a Pioneer gen 8 for £1700 and a BV4 for £11500 where performance is not that much better- no real difference in looks- no speaker at all- Am i missing something here??thats a 7 times price differential to me

At the end of the day our expectations have become higher because of these huge prices and we start looking elsewhere and question the value. 

Nice input Mr10Percent ! You look at B&o from a another angle than the most of us in here...

And what about the price on the Avant 32" RF DVD when it was new ?? We all speak about the mega high price on: BV9, BV7,  and BV4, but think back a little ... The price in Sweden for a Avant RF DVD was about 7500:- € when it was new, and almost 6-7 times more expensive than a Philips 32" RF 100Hz Natural Motion TV at that time = The same huge price difference like today...

The higher price span in between go hand in hand with the increasing conjuncture and income as everyone already know...

So i don´t see why we all complaining about the price on B&o.. Buy Samsung or Pioneer if you wont to feel like an "Average Joe" then.. (I think we already have too many Average Joe´s in this world)

I like unique products!.. 

 

And what about the price on the Avant 32" RF DVD when it was new ?? We all speak about the mega high price on: BV9, BV7,  and BV4, but think back a little ... The price in Sweden for a Avant RF DVD was about 7500:- € when it was new, and almost 6-7 times more expensive than a Philips 32" RF 100Hz Natural Motion TV at that time = The same huge price difference like today...

I do not know the swedish prices, but if I remember well, the best Panasonic CRT's had an approximately EUR 4k  at that time, so the difference was "only" 2x, and the B&O included the DVD also. So, I think, a 1.5x-2x more money is not questionable (mostly, because the picture of an Avant was at least 10x better then a Panasonic!), but a 6x-7x more is really questionable with almost the same, and mostly, for less picture quality.

So for a 2x more price for a 10x more picture is a deal IMHO, but a 7x more money on an approximately equal quality is not a deal. IMHO.

So i don´t see why we all complaining about the price on B&o..

Easy. Just please check a market leading technology/price value against to B&O in the past, and in the present. 

Buy Samsung or Pioneer if you wont to feel like an "Average Joe" then.. (I think we already have too many Average Joe´s in this world)

It's easy. Purchase a B&O telephone, and try to not feel an Average Joe against to any limited Nokia phone. Anyway, I think, it's a totally new idea, that B&O makes You somebody, and if You can afford it, then You can feel Yourself better.

If there is something I hate (sorry), is an idea on have a product, because it's expensive, and Joe can't afford it. I want to have it, because it's the best, or if it's unique, or anything else, but the expensive price. I think, if that's the only one that differs me from A.J., then it means: I worth nothing.

I like unique products!.. 

Me too, and therefore I do not purchase Samsung and Audi speakers. Sorry, even if they have a sticker on them for a hell lots of money, to say, yes, it has also a B&O price... I bag Your pardon, but IMHO a unique product is not unique by the price, but by the knowledge.

If it were possible, then I'll gladly pay even a Bs4's price to make my MX and Beosystems up to date against to purchase a """new""" product with less knowledge(!), 
and less quality, for an irracional price. 

Beolab:

So i don´t see why we all complaining about the price on B&o.. Buy Samsung or Pioneer if you wont to feel like an "Average Joe" then.. (I think we already have too many Average Joe´s in this world)

I'm not sure what circles you move in, Beolab, but most people I know - and they have high disposable income - couldn't even justify a Pioneer Kuro, never mind a B&O. I wouldn't even regard a Pioneer Kuro as for the 'average joe'.

Beolab:

355f:

Mr10Percent:

355f:

On the price adjusted RPI firgure you mention; its an interesting point and of course accurate, the products today are no more expensive in real terms BUT over the past 8 years we have had huge wholescale price deflation in the audio and video business and large advances in technology. I admire the Bs9000 and the bl8000 but they are prehistoric in electronic terms.

Yes but that is the whole point of RPI. 20-25 years ago, the level of disposable income whould have been similar - no the same. Electronics have got cheaper but other things more expensive. Thus the amount one could spend on a luxury item like a BC9000 remains the same and relative. More interestingly, you have to strip the cost of all the extras in say a BV7-40. £2200 for the BL7.2 for a £200 speaker. Lose the DVD, lose the stand, lose the AR glass, lose the DTS. This takes the ratio from 7 time to perhaps 2 or 3 times. I'm not defending it, I'm just arguing we should compare like for like.

In terms of prehistoric electronics. I wonder what we will be writing about the BL5 when it is still in the product portfolio in twenty years time, still unrivaled in its price bracket. Sampling rates may have gone up etc...but what are the chances of another sonic breakthrough? Although not my bag, there is still not many things out there that compare and stack up against a BS9000 or the BL8000 when you look at what they do.

At the end of the day, our expectations have become even greater.

10%

Well it follows therefore that you have to strip out these 'extras'  that the 'other brands' now offer- not just the 'extras' that BnO provide.

Whilst I understand the economics of the debate I purchased a LX2800 in 1987  and it was double the price of the very best Sont Tv at that time. The B&O was a better tv, better sound, better picture and it looked super stylish.

Moving forward to 2008 we have a Pioneer gen 8 for £1700 and a BV4 for £11500 where performance is not that much better- no real difference in looks- no speaker at all- Am i missing something here??thats a 7 times price differential to me

At the end of the day our expectations have become higher because of these huge prices and we start looking elsewhere and question the value. 

Nice input Mr10Percent ! You look at B&o from a another angle than the most of us in here...

And what about the price on the Avant 32" RF DVD when it was new ?? We all speak about the mega high price on: BV9, BV7,  and BV4, but think back a little ... The price in Sweden for a Avant RF DVD was about 7500:- € when it was new, and almost 6-7 times more expensive than a Philips 32" RF 100Hz Natural Motion TV at that time = The same huge price difference like today...

The higher price span in between go hand in hand with the increasing conjuncture and income as everyone already know...

So i don´t see why we all complaining about the price on B&o.. Buy Samsung or Pioneer if you wont to feel like an "Average Joe" then.. (I think we already have too many Average Joe´s in this world)

I like unique products!.. 

 

In fact here in the Uk I purchased an avant and i recal it was exactly double that of the Sony Wega at the time,

 the picture was better, the sound was in a different league and it had a VHS recorder built in, with a motorised stand in a nice cabinet.

I purchased a bs3 and bv4 , would i recommend that an individual makes the same decision - NO, better value better product and a superior one out there for far far less.

We have had honest individuals on here who , having bought the BV7 say they would never buy that set again.- Is this good for repeat business for BnO?? 'average joe' is delighted with the better performing products available elsewhere. I dont just mean maninstream barnds either

If being 'an average joe'   means I am a more discerning customer that has access to far better products at far lower prices then i would prefer to be classed as that- rather than the message that BnO presently delivers, and its not a good one- an individual that could have been more selective in purchasing a better performing product that is more unique- not available in every city with 2 B&O shops and costs the same or less for far more performance.

Fact is now, BnO with the franchsie system is no longer exclusive in the same way it was so BnO have to decide what they want to do, cater for individuals with more money than sense- in which case close most of the shops, or start looking seriously at the product range and prices in order to support the dealers that have made huge investments in bno products

 

Just trawled through the seven pages, first time I've been on beoworld in a few weeks just with exams. Quite shocked at the news, seems like a critical time for B&O in the next few months/years if they're to turn their fortunes around. Nice to see people are passionate about the company though and keen for a turnaround. 

the problem seems to be that there just isn't anything in bno's current range that comes anywhere near the all round brilliance of the avant

certainly nothing more stylish , the bv7 speaker just looks weird imo and ruins the whole look

why on earth isn't it the same width for each model ? 

I don't mind the look when it's relatively straight-on, but once you go to a side it isn't as pleasant. They probably need some new designers, with fresh ideas, to get the ball rolling again. Not that I don't like some of Mr Lewis' recent outputs, I actually quite like our BV8 and my Serenata.

I think AT, 355f and moxxey Miss understand me a little bit here.. My point was if you want to be unique and own a TV that not so many people have you buy B&o or Loewe..

And if you buy a TV only by the Specs and value for money you can buy things that are mass produced like Samsung, LG, Sharp, Panasonic or Pioneer..

Everyone i have spoken "B&o" with nows that B&o makes expensive Quality products. But in the other hand the most also now that their design/quality are miles ahead the mass produced products you can buy in a ordinary electronic supermarket´s...

I like design items and rare design products / brands...  I look at the item i´m interesting in and if i like what i see and it´s feel right i often buy it... I don't look so much at the price.. If B&o was a cheap brand with the same products they have today i´m pretty shore that i have bought it also because i like the looks and finish...

Unique/quality products are often expensive, but not always..

 

I don't mind paying for what I know I'm getting - I understand the differences in tooling costs for casting tools, plastic injection moulding tools and engineering costs when the products are destined for low volume versus high volume markets, however I still think B&O are taking the mickey on their current TV costs (if not their entire product range). Costs can spiral to cover for weaknesses elsewhere in their business plan - if this is the case it is not healthy. If the costs are spiralling because they believe they have a customer base willing to pay then this is even more worrying for the future.

I know ther are those that will pay the price regardless, even for product that many think are weak but I believe engineering, features, design and quality will always sell - past reputations however will not!

Just my opinion!

See article from Ingeniøren (in Danish) regarding B&O's future. Ingeniøren is the weekly paper (60-70 pages) for Danish engineers

The short version:

B&O have failed to ride the good financial wave.

Lots of products delayed

400 engineers must either be prioritized for new areas (auto, mobile etc, or assure "old" products are on time.)

B&O must be better to read the trends.

Flat screens are difficult to make exceptional (C1010: please don’t start the usual "defence" wave!!)

New Board may be coming soon

 

Analyse: Bang & Olufsens vanskelige prioritering af ingeniørtimer

Chokket over sidste uges overraskende nedjustering fra B&O med efterfølgende cheffyring og kursdyk har efterhånden lagt sig. Tilbage står dog stadig spørgsmålene om, hvordan det kunne gå så galt så hurtigt - og om der i virkeligheden gemmer sig mere alvorlige forklaringer end et dårligt julesalg bag nedjusteringen.

Der synes ikke længere nogen tvivl om, at forbrugerne i den vestlige verden er begyndt at holde på pengene - meldinger om et svagt decembersalg indløber i disse uger fra vidt forskellige detailkæder i Europa og USA.

Men sandheden er også, at B&O i flere år - trods højkonjunktur på de fleste markeder - har haft svært ved at leve op til sine egne vækstambitioner. Herunder målet om en omsætning i 2010 på seks milliarder kroner mod knap 4,4 milliarder i seneste regnskabsår.

Og det faktum at den danske producent af luksusprodukter i så gavnligt et økonomisk klima ikke har været i stand til at ekspandere forretningen som ventet bunder ifølge analytikere og fagfolk med fingeren på den tekniske puls i flere teknologiske og strategiske udfordringer.

For det første har B&O haft svært ved at få nye produkter på markedet til tiden. I 2005 nåede første generation af mobiltelefonen Serenata ikke frem til butikkerne i tide til den vigtige julehandel, selvom den blev lanceret i efteråret. I 2007 var det lanceringen af fladskærmsfjersynet Beovision 7, der måtte udsættes to gange på det amerikanske marked. Og i forbindelse med sidste uges nedjustering blev introduktionen af et nyt audiosystem, der ifølge koncernens egne udmeldinger vil revolutionere måden at integrere lyd og computer, så udskudt til efteråret.

Forsinkede lanceringer er i sig selv alvorlige. Men i en branche hvor udviklingstiderne er under konstant pres, så nye modeller og teknologier kan sprøjtes på markedet, inden konkurrenterne kommer med noget endnu bedre, kan forsinkelser på halve år koste dyrt på bundlinjen.

Og det leder direkte til den anden mulige forklaring på Struer-virksomhedens vækstproblemer: Prioriteringen af de cirka 400 ingeniører og designere i udviklingsafdelingerne i Struer, Århus, Estland og Tjekkiet.

Sammenholdt med kæmper som Samsung, Apple og Philips skal B&O meget nøje prioritere, hvor de sparsomme udviklingstimer skal anvendes. Og i de senere år har koncernen brugt mange timer på at udvikle nye koncepter som lydanlæg til luksusbiler, mobiltelefonen Serenata - dog i samarbejde med Samsung - og MP3-afspilleren BeoSound. Og det i en tid med stor knaphed af dygtige udviklingsfolk.

Satsningen på lydanlæg til biler som Audi og Aston Martin har vist sig at være en succes - med en forventet omsætning i 2010 på 300-500 millioner kroner. Og mobiltelefon og MP3-afspiller er begge forsøg på at trække nye generationer af kunder ind i B&O-universet.

Men udviklingen har trukket udviklingskræfter væk fra kerneforretningen - fjernsyn og audio-anlæg - hvilket kan være en årsag til forsinkelsen af det, ifølge B&O selv, revolutionerende audiosystem, som forventes at være koncernens bud på næste generation af integreret lyd og computer.

Netop den strategiske fokusering af udviklingskræfterne var da også en af bestyrelsesformand Jørgen Wornings begrundelser for den omdiskuterede fyring af koncernchef Torben Ballegaard Sørensen.

B&O synes derfor nu at stå over for et strategisk valg mellem at satse kræfterne på kerneforretningen eller på at udvikle de nye ben. Vælger koncernen det første, risikerer både Serenata-telefonen og den digitale musikafspiller ifølge flere kilder at lide en stille død.

Koncernen har desuden en udfordring i at koble sig sammen med de rigtige samarbejdspartnere. Nok har B&O opfundet tekniske løsninger som motordrejesokler til deres tv, automatiske afbrydere og Beolink- systemet, der integrerer lyd, billed og lys. Men på de brede grundteknologier har koncernen altid måttet vente på de store konkurrenters løsninger og derefter tilføre dem de sidste fem procent, som hæver design og teknologi til B&O-standard.

Derfor er koncernen afhængig af, at samarbejdspartnere som Samsung forbliver udviklingsstjerner, der kan sikre ingeniørerne og designerne på B&O hurtig adgang til den nyeste teknik.

En tredje væsentlig udfordring er evnen til at læse markedets behov og time nye produkter derefter. B&O kom relativ sent med på fladskærmsbølgen - angiveligt fordi de første generationer af teknologi ikke levede op til kvalitetskravene.

I dag tilbyder koncernen en bred vifte af skærme, men ifølge tekniske fagfolk har udviklerne haft svært ved at tilføre skærmene det B&O-touch, som markedet forventer.

Fortrinnet ved en fladskærm er blandt andet, at den netop er - flad. Og som sådan svær at peppe op. B&O har forsøgt at udbygge sine skærme med pølser af højtalere placeret under, eller bygget ud fra, selve skærmen. Men ifølge flere iagttagere af markedet kan netop dette få den danske virksomheds produkter til at virke klodsede. Og når den generelle pris på fladskærme samtidig styrtdykker, risikerer de høje priser på B&Os produkter at blive udstillet ekstra meget.

Desuden har introduktionen af 26-tommer skærmen BeoVision 8-26 angiveligt været en af efterårets skuffelser - blandt andet fordi produktet kom så sent på markedet, at forbrugernes krav til mindstestørrelse undervejs var steget.

Alle disse udfordringer ligger og venter på en ny koncernchef, der i samarbejde med bestyrelsen - som ifølge flere medier også kan stå over for et snarligt generationsskifte - nu skal genfinde vejen til vækst i en tid, hvor en historisk højkonjunktur netop har toppet. Og hvor et teknologisk generationsskifte med integration af lyd, billede og computer står for døren.

Hvis den kommende ledelse evner at få de rette produktlanceringer ud til tiden og forstår at læse et elektronikmarked i kraftig forandring, vil B&O fortsat kunne nå sine langsigtede vækstambitioner. Men vælger de forkert i Struer, risikerer koncernen endnu en årrække som "en bolsjebutik med et verdensbrand", som en kilde udtrykker det.

I det lys kan 2008 blive et afgørende år for det hæderkronede designikon.

 

I would not see it in such black colours, c1010:

 

It’s very Danish, the article: Partially informed (ie relatively quite well informed), at the same time being critical & praising & polite (up to a point, respectively), would-be-smart (from a perspective of an average Joe - I saw this term used elsewhere on this site recently, so I used it). Also, in a fine manner it serves a little bit of the traditional Danish self-pity to the (Danish) reader (Estonia and the Czech Republic are now going to be put to the same league as Struer and Aarhus!) ...

 

In short: Nothing to be worried about if you don’t read the language and nothing that you already don’t know from/hasn’t been discussed on this forum.

All in all a good article which apparently appeared in ‘Ingeniøren’ (Didn’t you know the paper??? -  which is why I love Denmark among other things) … it ends positively with a thumb up (to the new leadership, of course) under certain condition though, that is.

 

(Please, correct me - you internationally minded Danes around here.)

Is there an English version?

 

Dario