355f - couldn't agree more.

20 years ago you would see B&O tvs in 50% of danish homes. Thats defenitly not the case today. And will be even less in the future when no one is using there MX/LX's anymore.

At that time you ususly paid the double price when buying B&O tv's. Today yout pay be factor 6 or 7!

Unless B&O want to transform into a producer of tv sets for new rich russians they should consider their prices.

An other thing: When you looked in the B&O catalog 20 years ago you just wanted everything. Can't say that today.

Who would buy BeoSound6 when you can have an Pod touch?
Who would buy a BeoVision 8 when this is all plastic like Samsung?
Who would buy BeoMedia and rely on B&O ability to produce software?

I wouldn't!

/Anders

Well, this topic has certainly allowed many people to vent their spleens!!!  I certainly hope that Dude 1 is correct and that Bang visit this site and read them.  Looking at the annual report, it would seem that the share price drop is quite an over-reaction but probably reflects the jittery nature of many investors especially in the US at the present time.  That said, I think that many of the comments here are valid.

The pricing structure is getting a bit over the top.  Certainly, the BnO tax is worth paying for the design and quality as well as innovation but only to a certain level.   The company have a problem if they want to significantly reduce prices as components get cheaper as they will upset recent customers who paid top dollar.  Other companies get around this to some extent by dropping the price a little and upgrading the product but charge the same price.  BnO just INCREASE the price each year but keep the product the same and pocket the difference in price from the cheaper materials.

 BnO won't adapt many of their products to serve individual markets.  For example, Beosound 1 is a great product but it is only in FM.  Here in Australia, AM is still popular and many stations only broadcast on AM.  I would have bought Beosound in a heartbeat if they had AM on it for Australia and it wouldn't have cost too much to include it for this market.  I think maybe others felt the same,  result lost sales.

A friend has an Avant.  When he upgrades to LCD he won't look at BV7 as he refuses to pay so much for a set without a built in digital tuner.  How often have we heard that?

There are other thoughts that come to mind but this should be enough for now!  Clifft 

I "love" the notion mentioned above that B&O should produce its own plasma and lcd screens ... an interesting proposition. Not even SONY has made that plunge, and Pioneer is still not seeing a return of its enormous investment into plasma technology (about ten times B&O's total yearly turnover to date).

B&O will "always" be repackaging components into its own, unique solutions within a/v. And what we're discussing is whether the solutions have been sufficiently unique and on-brand. Strong brands create credibility, loyalty and respect - you simply do not wish to tamper with them. For instance, no one would dream of calling Ferraris "ferries" when alluding to them. It's symptomatic of the loss of respect B&O is suffering that some commenters here are calling them Bang, and their products Bangvisions. (The latter I'll never understand, since the term BeoVision is shorter and better, but what the heck.)

B&O's inability to provide enough unique solutions, that could defend their brand position, have eroded their credibility, loyalty and respect -- and this suddenly has us comparing their products to common, run-of-the-mill offerings available through the a/v warehouses, and not in a favourable way.

As to the particular product spec's: as an exclusive, high-end repackager of components, B&O can't accommodate a lot of local variations "in-box." What does that mean? Well - some markets have MPEG-2 digital transmissions, some have MPEG-4, some are mulling other formats. I have a Pioneer 50" screen that works perfectly in Sweden, if I want to pull digital transmissions off the air, but doesn't work in the neighbouring country of Norway, for instance.
Another matter entirely is that I haven't pulled a signal off the air in over a decade, I've used cable providers and parabolic antennas - which is what the majority of those who use B&O's products (and most other a/v) also do. And given that fact, B&O has sought to solve the problem by expecting people to use stand-alone STBs, and to control these with the Beo4, while the STB is stuck in a cabinet somewhere.
It's B&O's answer to the fact that they can't have too many variations on each model.

To lay the cards face up on the table here - I think one of B&O's main problems has been an unwillingness to open up the products to user centered mix&pix, for fear of then losing customers to other brands. The B&O offering has always been pretty locked in, with self sufficient total solutions. Why doesn't the BL9s have digital in, for instance - while the BL5s do? And why doesn't BeoSystem 3 have digital audio out?
I suspect someone decided that providing those connections reduced the probability that customers would pick ALL B&O solutions -- which is why we now have Powerlink in on the new speaker, and Powerlink out on the BeoSystem 3. (And yes, you can use a converter cable on the BL9s) But it's all sending a signal that B&O wants to do things their own way -- unfortunately, this creates a sense of unfamiliarity among prospective new customers, who have a hard enough time understanding the nomenclature of modern a/v, without having to familiarize themselves with the mystical ways of Struer on top of that again.

Another major problem is the fact that the brand hasn't made it clear what it stands for. Is it ostentatious luxury and social mingling? Interior decoration? Or outstanding a/v performance exclusively packaged? It should be the latter. Combine the extremely high price point with this lack of clarity in brand perception, and you get an even harder time of it recruiting new buyers to the brand. Which is why it's off most peoples' radar.

There was a link in another thread here, regarding B&O now dropping the combo HD-DVD/BluRay player in favour of BluRay. In that link you could read what fairly well informed US customers knew about the brand. Someone here commented that "these people should get out more." Don't worry, they do - the fact that they know very little about B&O is due to the brand not having communicated itself clearly. One of them wrote that "This thing is big. They have five stores in my area alone. I have to look into it." The brand should have connected with him earlier.

Struer's got its challenges cut out for itself - but let's not even imagine that the solution is building its own plasmas, or having the logistics of SONY (which rebadges as many televisions in one hour as B&O sell in a year.)

 

 

do you think there are more heads to roll???

9 LEE:

I think you'll find the tooling for making it, the design, R&D and marketing comes into play.  Huge amounts of investment for what is essentially a low-volume product, and this really bites in cost terms!

I'm certainly not defending the £6,800 price tag - but the margins are probably not as mind-boggling as you might think.  However, what do we think the 7-32 is ACTUALLY worth as a TV?  If it had no price tag - what would you be prepared to pay for it, realistically.

I'm aware of the issues involved with developing products as I'm in the software business. However, economies of scale apply to everyone within the TV business and reduce over time (as the costs of research and initial tooling, are recouped).

Back in Easter 2004, when developing the BV7-32, they'd have priced it up based on components required for the production of the TV, then added the margin required to make a profit. These components (panel, DVD player etc) have reduced over time due to the competition within the TV industry - back in 2004 the panel might have been $800 OEM. It's now $80. Same with the DVD player and other elements.

The only part of the BV7-32 that has improved since 2004 is the panel. People are still buying a £7K TV that only has one single DVI socket. Some people on this board talk about 'future proofing' and that it's a disgrace that the BV8 only has one HDMI socket, but you could argue that the BV7-32 is in a worse situation and there isn't a change due on the horizon in the short-term. Essentially you're buying the same £7K BV7-32 in 2008 that you could have bought in 2004, albeit with an improved panel.

I could state here and now that I would not have bought my MKIII BV7-40 for £8.8K if I didn't have my old BV7-32 to trade-in and my dealer hadn't offered me such a good trade-in value against the new TV. In the same way I couldn't now - in 2008 - pay nearly £7K for a BV7-32 that didn't have a single HDMI socket. Ok, HDMI is not essential, but it's the principle.

What would be a good price for a BV7-32? £5495 and then £6995 for the BV7-40.

There appears to be wholesale agreement within this thread regarding B&O's current situation. To summarise, B&O of old had Unique Selling Points of Style, Features and Integration which, together, created the wow factor. For this people were willing to pay a premium. Todays product range however seems disparate and fragmented and very few product have the wow factor (notable exception BL5) however the premium across the range has spiralled. In some cases the only Unique Selling Point is cost!

This clearly cannot continue hence the proposed return to core values, core products.

I welcome the shift in emphasis and I look forward to a new range of fresh, exciting products.

Puncher:

There appears to be wholesale agreement within this thread regarding B&O's current situation. To summarise, B&O of old had Unique Selling Points of Style, Features and Integration which, together, created the wow factor. For this people were willing to pay a premium. Todays product range however seems disparate and fragmented and very few product have the wow factor (notable exception BL5) however the premium across the range has spiralled. In some cases the only Unique Selling Point is cost!

This clearly cannot continue hence the proposed return to core values, core products.

I welcome the shift in emphasis and I look forward to a new range of fresh, exciting products.

Agree on this the WOW  is somehow lost. But then its all about design again. Or not ? 

Alex:

Agree on this the WOW  is somehow lost. But then its all about design again. Or not ? 

I think the WOW is a combination of three elements: fantastic design, excellent product, realistic pricing. Feeling like you've got something that's solid and well designed, looks like it adds value to your home and you go away and believe that paying the extra was value for money.

When I bought my BV7-32 back in December 2004 I had all these three elements. If I had to go out now and make the same purchasing decision again (without B&O equipment to trade-in), I'd be more likely to sway away from a B&O TV as only one of those three elements exists.

If I was a complete B&O virgin, I have no idea how I could justify the purchase of a B&O TV in 2008.

Listen guy’s…..

 

Hate to say it but I think most of you are putting the force of your relative frustrations with B&O as a cause of the “parting of ways” between B&O and TBS. I doubt he (if he actually has) been fired because of a lack of HDMI interfaces, or that the BL9’s are ugly, or that the BV4 is a reframed Panasonic or even because the BS3 has no DAB. I doubt it is because B&O cost too much or offer relatively little technology for the price. This is subjective to each of you (and I disagree with most of you on that it has a poor product range) and most probably, the board and the shareholders really don’t give two figs as long as it gives a reasonable rate of return.

 

The reality, I postulate the cause is probably a little more mundane in this high-flying corporate world;

 

1. He has not delivered the 5 year growth he promised in 2001. Therefore a new corporate strategy is needed to deliver a promise. If he can’t deliver in 5 years, he never will. Time to move on.

 

1. It could be possible he has had a major fall-out with the board on a number of small issues which as resulted in an immediate mutual stand-down (and pay-off).

 

1. There could have been a similar disagreement between either a senior financing individual from a principle lender or a senior market analyst – yes boards can be that fickle.

 

1. He may have been refused capital funds to develop new projects, he may have been told “no more money” making his growth strategy impossible and therefore he would have engineered a quick exit (again along with perhaps a substantial golden parachute)

 

1. His Executive authority may have been significantly undermined in the political scene at B&O.

 

1. One could not dismiss that there could be stock or other financial impropriety on his part.

 

1. One could not dismiss that there could be in-company moral issues which require is immediate release i.e. an in-company affair which reflects badly up on the company and its image.

 

1. One other possible cause may be the B&O family or the board do not want to be a “luxury brand” like Louis Vuitton et al. Maybe they want to be in a niche as a premier AV electronics company. Semantics but may be that statement in the Sunday Times was alone responsible for his step-down?

 

1. There are probably lots of valid reasons but I doubt any of them are to do with the aesthetics or the connectivity of the equipment being made or the general product portfolio. We in Beoworld may all want this or that or ask why can’t it be done by JJ etc…but that is history. Sorry but the company has moved on to what it is now.

 

Going forward, and it is probably irrelevant to the current product range, a new CEO will be tasked with the usual array of Corporate KPI’s. i.e. increase turnover, increase margin, increase market share, reduce costs etc….. That will never change. B&O cannot run as some of you have mentioned with their hearts and produce top quality innovative products and bargain prices every 12 to 36 months. No one can. It is not a business for doing things for free for you me or anyone else. It is in a difficult business where the balance between a luxury goods producer, innovative AV producer, European electronics maker, charging high prices for low volume (or visa versa) cannot be easily realised because of its historic niche. Moving from one core business to a new core business quickly will be corporate suicide.

 

However, it is a business and the last 5 years turnover and financial accounts have show that it has been doing very well – but not as well as TBS promised!  Therefore he must go.

 

 

My  99 cents…..

 

10%

 

 

Mr10Percent:

Hate to say it but I think most of you are putting the force of your relative frustrations with B&O as a cause of the “parting of ways” between B&O and TBS.

I think you've completely missed the point. Personally, I coudn't care less about the CEO of B&O or other corporations. My argument - as with many other people on here - is about B&O, their current situation and their direction.

moxxey:

Alex:

Agree on this the WOW  is somehow lost. But then its all about design again. Or not ? 

I think the WOW is a combination of three elements: fantastic design, excellent product, realistic pricing. Feeling like you've got something that's solid and well designed, looks like it adds value to your home and you go away and believe that paying the extra was value for money.

When I bought my BV7-32 back in December 2004 I had all these three elements. If I had to go out now and make the same purchasing decision again (without B&O equipment to trade-in), I'd be more likely to sway away from a B&O TV as only one of those three elements exists.

If I was a complete B&O virgin, I have no idea how I could justify the purchase of a B&O TV in 2008.

On many occasions when i have posted regarding pricing I have had the response- well if price is an issue you cant afford B&O and this raised for me some interesting points. It seemed unlikely that B&O purchasers are so stupid they dont look at other products-

How much is one prepared to pay for the brand- if this CEO departure had not happened we would not be having such a debate.

So we know that B&O is not Pioneer but is one happy to pay 9 times the cost of a Pioneer plasma( which is regarded as the best- other than fujitsu) or pay more for a 20in BV8 than a 50 in pioneer plasma??

It seems to me that cost is relevant and that now the sales are falling hard because customers have voted with their feet.

My argument about cheaper pricing goes like this---

Lets take the proposed BC5 a multi media device for storing all your music, maybe video, in a super stylish package, with an in built cd/dvd drive that performs flawlessly. IF that is the product- and i dont think it will be, I would pay the asking price for that - say £4800.

But given that its likely it will not be as good as we would like and doesnt offer a viable alternative to other solutions but was a qulaity product that integrated with what we have I would buy that if it cost £2800.

So price does matter surely? and this is what B&O have lost sight of.

In my own case I have decided to buy no more B&O- why? becauise there are some very nice high end solutions that look good, perform better and cheaper in every area of AV and many brands offer integration in the same way.

I think one thing they should have done. Take BS3 it does not really support a third party screen properly. Charge the high price asked for BS3 but give the customer a choice to use a third part panel if they so desire and not feel stuffed by B&O to get the BV4.

The dealers are having a tough time and its going to get worse- its those i feel sorry for- with no other product to sell

355f:

On many occasions when i have posted regarding pricing I have had the response- well if price is an issue you cant afford B&O and this raised for me some interesting points. It seemed unlikely that B&O purchasers are so stupid they dont look at other products-

335f, I think in fairness that's exactly my experience with the majority (average) B&O customer. Even the dealers admit this. The average customer has a very high disposable income, is 40+, wants quality and ease-of-use and believes that B&O are the 'best in the business' and there's little point looking elsewhere for anything better. They go in there, choose a TV and possibly speakers, get it installed and keep it for years.

The snag is that even traditional B&O customers are starting to look elsewhere as people are simply more clued up than they were even four years ago. Like I mention in a previous thread, my landlords - in their late 40s - are typical B&O customers, but have become slightly more clued up with pricing (they all read the John Lewis 'get your Sony 32" LCD for £500 adverts in the Times, Telegraph etc). They see places like John Lewis promoting a LCD 32" TV for £500 and then go back to B&O and wonder why they have to pay nearly £7K for the BV7-32.

The reason why these people are so successful and have such a high disposable income....is due to them being prudish in their spending. The snag now is how do B&O realistically make these traditional customers realise that the same traditions still exist and it's still worth spending nearly 15x the amount on a B&O 32" than a Sony, from John Lewis.

Alex:

But then its all about design again. Or not ? 

Good point.

IMHO currently B&O mostly want to sell their products only by the design, and that's the problem: It's not enough.

A B&O must be an artwork.

For me, it means not just a good design, but a real timeless design, and also a technological perfection. IMHO  You also must feel, that it was DREAMED by a genius, by a master of perfection.  A dream come true... Take a look on a Beocenter 9500, a Beocenter 9000, a Beocenter 2300 - You can really feel it. Even without a name on it, You will know, they are B&O.

They are truly artworks. You can put them to even a brand new luxury home, but You can put it into a royal castle right between a Leonardo and a Raffaello painting. And You will feel, that's absolutely ok - the only minor thing will be the question: why do You need the paintings? The true artwork is made by B&O... ;) 

They are perfect, they are truly timeless products.  

Do You feel this with a product, which is only labelled as B&O?

moxxey:

Mr10Percent:

Hate to say it but I think most of you are putting the force of your relative frustrations with B&O as a cause of the “parting of ways” between B&O and TBS.

I think you've completely missed the point. Personally, I coudn't care less about the CEO of B&O or other corporations. My argument - as with many other people on here - is about B&O, their current situation and their direction.

 

No Moxxey, I have not lost the point of the thread. The thread is about the departure of TBS from B&O and the cause of that departure. The opinion of the majority of contributors to this debate cite the product portfolio, technical level, product quality, wow factor and retail price level as the reason for his departure.

 

I have merely offered a more mundane reason such as corporate politics. That does not debase the other forum members valid opinions in any way.

 

I for one are happy with the B&O line-up. That does not necessarily mean I enjoy the high prices or that I want to own a BV4, BS3 or BS6. It does not mean I desperately want the latest and greatest innovations found on the latest Panasonic, Pioneer or whatever. I buy B&O for my own reasons – just like 99% of other B&O owners who don’t give a damn about this forum or its opinions.

 

10%

 

It's quite simple really. People with 'disposable income' want to be exclusive. All B&O has to do is deliver something slightly different to the norm to give it the edge and people in this group will be satisifed and buy it. One of my close friends is married to a premiership football player and they have B&O integrated througout their home. On their combined wages they could afford much more high end equipment but their preference is for B&O. I have known these friends for years and I can tell you that because money is no objective they will splash out on whatever B&O releases just for the sake of having it. Most of the time they are given things for free anyway to advertise and promote the brand. Certainly this is the case with their Mercedez cars which my friend tells me they get asked to change for the new one every few months - it actually frustrates them but it's part of the deal. Anyway, to get back to my point, this group of people are a big group and growing all the time. There are plenty of people out there with a lot of money. Let's not forget that money makes money, this basic equation cannot fail.

When you start out in business you have to go to great lengths to build a solid reputation and make a name for yourself and this is what B&O did very successfully which established them as a premium brand and gave way to a devoted and loyal customer base. However, as time goes on they have slipped (possibly intentionally) knowing and relying of the fact that many of their customers would remain loyal, also knowing that they don't have to do quite as much to stay one step ahead. People in this group are content with this.

The problems arise with the next group of people, the group that I fall into. I also want exclusivity and I am prepared to pay for it, but only now and again, because my income is not disposable and I have to take much more care and thought with regards to my spending. This group is ultimately bigger than the previous group and therefore still represents a large piece of the financial pie for any company. It is certainly a group B&O can't afford to ignore but, in 'my' group, people demand and expect the best for their money and that is what we are not getting.

So where do B&O go from here? We can't say that it isn't about products because it is, completly! After all, those are what have to sell! But its also very much about knowing who they are, who they want to target and how they want to be seen as a company. Who knows what goes on at board meetings in B&O HQ? Only time will tell what happens to B&O and I look forward to these times. I do think though that this is another major transition stage for them. They do need to rethink their overall strategy. While we represent a small percentage of B&O owners worldwide, users of this site have voiced an overwhelming dissatisfaction with the last decade concerning B&O products apart from the 5s, 9s and 3s which have lived up to what we have come to expect from the company. These products are simply not enough.

Simon.

Mr10Percent:

No Moxxey, I have not lost the point of the thread. The thread is about the departure of TBS from B&O and the cause of that departure. The opinion of the majority of contributors to this debate cite the product portfolio, technical level, product quality, wow factor and retail price level as the reason for his departure.

No, I'm talking in context to the discussion. Many people start talking generally even within a specific thread - that's what has been happening here. We're not talking about the loss of the CEO, we're talking about B&O and their direction, pricing and so on. Most people don't care about the forum, you're right. But then in the real world....their sales are down 12% in the UK.

So, there is a problem.

Getting things in perspective - this is the B&O share's journey since january 2007.

The latest downturn registers as just a tick compared to the year as a whole. 

 

I think, there is nothing more to say about why a CEO was removed - the graph "says" everything.

His job failed, the shareholders lost a lots of money. They want at least heads. The facts shows, this is not a short term problem, but an acute, real big problem, what Torben B. was not able to solve. He had more then enough time to try it, but failed. Nobody interests about who was also responsible about it, because if he was not able to solve the problem, then it's his fault.

The facts says everything, the product range/price/policy/marketing went to a totally wrong way. The reply was received from the customers, and for the market: We are not interested in this kind of a B&O.

So, I'am also agree, it's so simple, and  nothing to do with hdmi, or dvi, or anything else. I'am also agree, that's not a solution for the problem, and it's not about one single person. I'am also agree, that this maybe a bad solution, and even the things can go worse. To remove a CEO can not solve anything, but please notice: If You put Your head into the sands, and not look up to the facts, it will surely not solve the problems.

To avoid this, first they (we?) have to figure out the real reasons behind the figures, and they must solve the problems.

And therefore, to think about the reasons is the only way to find the solutions. The reason is truly not the CEO.

IMHO, first B&O must define itself, what B&O wanna be. A premium class manufacturer, or just a brand name.

And for me, it seems, that was the question, which was not answered in these years. But if nothing else, but this is a real responsibility of the executives in a company. And If they are not able to do it, they must be replaced. Starting by the chief. 

i speak for myself here i do not think i will be buying another b&o product in the foreseeable future i been b&o fan liked the products and owned few  their prices were always above normal every days brand nothing new here but in proportion were worth it,now it is different story digital age!!! i think simply b&o have lost the plot products as a package(technical spec) included V pricing i wonder how many members here share my view???,also i feel the b&o policy in this issue customers always wrong!!!

Hello,
Is there anyone there who can make a synthetic summary of what's been discussed previously ?

In my opinion, B&O should really have a look on what's being discussed here, in order to benefit from what we, the customers, think and wish for the future. Furthermore, it's free, no need to engage high expenditures on marketing studies, in a way to get our feedback.

Guy 

 

 

Speaking as a dealer ( so you know there may be a touch of bias/vested interest here ! ) I would add a couple of points about some issues raised above.

WoW factor :  This will always, to a large degree, be a personal thing.  During a typical week, I will see customers who can't believe just what can be done via Beo4 and Beomedia - Web access, photo's, MP3, videoclips, streamed radio etc.  All via a remote they have owned for 10years with an MX TV.  They are literally open mouthed and spellbound.  However, others can't stop laughing soon enough to list all the mediacenter/apple/lintronic variants that can achieve similar results for 30% cost.    Whose reaction is "correct" ?

Is Beocom 2 a deseign icon, a magnificent phone and an object of desire,  or just a rich man's toy??

The sound from a pair of Lab 4000 / 6000 / 8000  is a revelation to most people who hear them for the first time.  Its easy to be jaded and forget just how good they are when you own a pair / hear them a lot.   The Lab 3/5/9 range is, realistically, financially beyond many and so their stunning sound is often tempered by that "if only" feeling.  But not so with BeoSound 1 - a magnificent sound from a compact system, albeit CD/FM only. 

The Beovision 7 40, with 4 x hdmi, and the new chassis for picture quality, is I think without a competitor, and is now a worthy replacement for Avant. 

The B&O brand/kudos/reputation is still more than justified/reflected in the vast majority of the product range, although no one can deny the odd hiccup in some areas. 

As to the worldwide performance/Torben issues, that is a reflection on the current demands made by business on its key players. 

How often do we hear news of a company reporting a drop in profits to "just" £xxmillion.

M&S shares plummetted a few days ago because they were 2% down over December.   Not losing money, not in any way unprofitable or in trouble.  But 2% away from last years figures.  No doubt they were way up on four or five years ago, but in the current climate, a decline is not seen as acceptable, and shares tumble.  Not sure how much money M&S made, but its still tens of millions of pounds.  So, a 2%drop means ending  the period with "only" £49million profit, not £50 million.  To the stock market, its the £1 million "missing" since last year that counts, not the £49million generated.  Harsh.

I can't add to the reasons/speculation behind Torben leaving at such short notice, as I don't know why , other than the stated reasons in the various quotes from B&O.  He was, in my experience, a true ambassador for B&O as a brand, and a nice man.  I wish him well.

 

 

KingStreet:

WoW factor :  This will always, to a large degree, be a personal thing.  During a typical week, I will see customers who can't believe just what can be done via Beo4 and Beomedia - Web access, photo's, MP3, videoclips, streamed radio etc.  All via a remote they have owned for 10years with an MX TV.  They are literally open mouthed and spellbound.  However, others can't stop laughing soon enough to list all the mediacenter/apple/lintronic variants that can achieve similar results for 30% cost.

Yes, but that's my point. Times are changing. The percentage of people who think the former is becoming less and less and the latter, more so. ie. even traditional B&O customers in their late forties are starting to realise that they can get better value for money, elsewhere. This is only going to get worse, not better.

People are becoming far more Internet and price savvy. That's now reaching traditional customers <50. As we move in to a multimedia age, where we watch digital download content on our TV, people need to become more savvy more quickly and the gap between those who are 'wowed' by the what they can do with their old Beo4 and those who are more savvy, will widen.

moxxey:

Out of interest, what did you dealer say when you explained the above scenario? Can the Wii be connected through HDMI or components?

Hi moxxey. I haven't yet told my dealer. Yes a solution to this problem is a Scart extension cable as already mentioned, but this is not the point at all. I have bought a BV8 because amongst many other reasons I expect it to be perfect as many of my past B&O purchases have been. I do really like my BV8 and do not regret buying it. I would be interested to know why Massimo is returning his BV8 to his dealer. However, I do agree that BV8 is the type of product B&O shouldn't be making. The design is different to BC6 but the general idea seemed to be a lower budget BC6. As far as I am concerned, the word 'lower budget' should not appear in B&O's dictionary.

A lot of very valid and interesting points have been made in this thread. I believe it would be a very good idea if all senior B&O employees read this thread.

 

another reason that m&s are having problems is competition , namely Waitrose

Waitrose really are an amazingly efficient business and with Ocado , it's internet shopping arm , they really are showing m&s how to do business properly

 bno have loads of competition too

just they don't seem to realise it.. 

Flappo The Grate:

another reason that m&s are having problems is competition , namely Waitrose

Waitrose really are an amazingly efficient business and with Ocado , it's internet shopping arm , they really are showing m&s how to do business properly

 bno have loads of competition too

just they don't seem to realise it.. 

 

Flappo - your post illustrates one of my earlier points perfectly.  Last year M&S made £53Million.  They are on track to match that, or maybe miss by a % or so, so they will be clearing around £50 million after costs in 07/08

And yet, in your post you say "M&S are having problems "  Google M&S results and the many headlines are all about the adverse results, poor returns, dissapointing figures, a run on sterling, the shares falling, the high street gloom, .....because a UK trader is "only" making £50million. 

I know its perhaps a bit simplistic, but in reality, the "loss" of 2 million is just a paper loss, of concern to stockbrokers, financial journalists and bankers.  It is not an actual loss, they just made a bit less than last year - but they still made a perfectly respectable margin, and returned tens of millions of pounds, employed thousands of people, traded with hundreds of suppliers and contractors etc etc.... and yet their results, to some, are a problem....its a problem I'd happily accept !!