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ARCHIVED FORUM -- April 2007 to March 2012
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This is the first Archived Forum which was active between 17th April 2007 and 1st March February 2012

 

Latest post 01-22-2008 9:04 PM by darioazul. 168 replies.
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  • 01-10-2008 6:40 PM In reply to

    Re: Torben B. has been sacked!!!!!

    Really don't know what to think or say about this. It's been very interesting reading through everyone's comments and of course there are all sorts of opinions. I am not too worried about Torben, he'll be fine and be head hunted in no time. He'll probably be snapped up quite quickly. But, I do feel sad for B&O. Like most people who visit this site, I am a huge B&O enthusiast. Few companies produce products that effect people in the way that B&O products do.

    I related to Lee's post a lot and share the same passion he obviously has; that many others have too. I have liked nice cars - my brief love affair with the Porsche for example, I have liked nice design laptops, I liked early Sony products like the Walkman and I liked designer clothes when I was going through my teens and early 20s but, nothing has every caught my attention, and held my attention as much as a B&O product has, and I suppose I am referring mainly to the 80s when I used to peer through the window of B&O dealers.

    I have said it before on this forum and I'll say it again, it was a love affair for me. As Lee said, it is the whole experience you buy into with B&O, it's not just about the product. Having said that, many of their earlier products were so often groundbreaking. I mean, who would come up with the thought of a remote control that raises up towards you when you put it down? B&O. Who would come up with a system to link your lights, audio, video (and other devices) throughout your home? B&O. Who could conceive audio systems with sliding doors and raising clamps? B&O. Who would build a dedicated area with a dedicated listening team solely for the purpose of producing groundbreaking acoustics? B&O. The BeoCom 2 phone which I love, who on earth could come up with that bizarre shape and make it so appealing? B&O. I first saw it on the Graham Norton show, it had only been out a day! Of course I could go on and we all have our favoruite products from the range. But this is what B&O represented. They were totally unique. Of course the design process also incorporated beautiful brushed metals, red and green LEDs. The colours and typefaces used were all done with absolute perfection resulting in the perfect product, something that you would imagine not possible but B&O proved otherwise. They pushed boundaries where others would dare not go.

    Their products were assembled by hand and quality tested in Denmark. When you bought a B&O product, you knew you were buying something truly outstanding in all areas. I love my B&O when it is turned off and I love it when it is turned on. I treat it all with dignity and the utmost respect, taking so much care to polish it often and make sure it never gets scratched. Honestly, I laugh at myself as I write because it's almost like stroking your partner's hair or adoring her in other ways!! (Not open to interpretation!) I don't know how B&O have achieved that effect with their products, all I know is that they have.

    People often talk about Apple on this forum and while I agree that some of their products are interesting, particularly the iPhone, I can say that they hold my attention only for a brief period of time before I get bored and lose interest. Something is missing. But many of the older B&O products do not have that same effect on me. Again, to refer to Lee's post, I think its that when I am using anything B&O I feel special. The product makes me feel special. It's the whole package: the people who buy into the product, the shops and people that sell the products, the reputation the product has, the design of the product, its functionality, the fact that people are in awe of the product, it's timeless, it stands out from the crowd. I could go on.

    Sadly, as I have commented on in other posts, like many people I do feel that the last decade has been really quite poor for new B&O products and many of them have not given me these feelings. I have to ask myself how reasonable it is for me to expect B&O to keep coming out with groundbreaking products? There are so many factors involved in producing such a product and many posts have considered these points, but I suppose the reason I have come to expect it is because B&O have previously done it! Could it be a classic case that they are becomming (or have become) a victim of their own success? Either way, credit where credit is due and for what B&O have acheived in the past I have nothing but the utmost respect and admiration for them. They have earnt it. I do so hope that this isn't the end for B&O. I will be so sad and feel a great loss. After all, and in the spirit of true romantic tragedy, it will be the end of a rich and long lasting love affair so there will be plenty of broken hearts.

    Come on B&O, you've done it before and you can do it again. Keep suprising the world with your amazing innovations and design classics that you are renound for. I am with you all the way!

    Good luck to you Torben on your new journey. Thank you for your excellent efforts with B&O to date. 

    Simon. (In a somewhat romantic fantasy, far, far away in a distant BeoWorld!)

    "We can rebuild him. We have the technology." 7-40, 7-2, 9000, BS3, BC2, LC2, BC6000, Beo5
  • 01-10-2008 6:43 PM In reply to

    • AT
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    Re: Torben B. has been sacked!!!!!

    Bingo:
    Does somebody know the solution?


    Yes, IMHO it's not so complicated in this case.

    Let's start to create whole systems, with genuine look, and with breathtaking solutions. As B&O did, and B&O used to do. After this, they could easily price any products, but without it, IMHO the brand name added royalty in this case is a little bit too high - mostly nowdays. Currently B&O sells out the past, the heritage, and the brand name. It can't
    last for too long. And what's the future after selling out the brand? Let' sell even the name, and close the brand.

    B&O made in China, B&O, made by Samsung, B&O, an expensive label on questionable products... An Apple computer supplier for built in speakers for notebooks? A common car speaker supporter? Sorry, but these ideas  
    are clearly seems to me as mass production ideas in order to maximise the profit. But, IMHO, it will not work with
    the premium class.

    IMHO just a well known story about Porsche. About thirty years ago Porsche decided to replace the 911. Tryed different ideas, different cars, but there was the
    clear reply from the customers: No, we want the 911.  So, Porsche went back to the 911, and sold it for dosens of years with minor changes - outside. So, IMHO, there is absolutely no problem with a ten year old design, the problem is the ten year old inside, without having any product which is absolutely up to date, without having an "all in one" product.

    So IMHO, if mass production, than I suggest for example to create additional or replacement panels for the former products to keep them up to date, for example net/dab/digital TV tuner, an optional two way-one way converter to use the B&O remotes to operate third party components... a B&O STB box to control all the video system...  
  • 01-10-2008 6:44 PM In reply to

    • SWISS_2
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    Re: Torben B. has been sacked!!!!!

    Sitting here, just south of the Equator, it is pretty shocking news tonight.

    I too met the man a few years ago in Struer, and it feels as though I lost a very likeable relative. Torben was quite sincere in his care and love for Bang and Olufsen, the employees, and the products. I truly wish him well for the future, as most do.

    I know the responsibility at the helm goes with the Captain's title, but I think Beocool has hit the actual target here referring to the stockholder's earnings loss, and subsequent voting reaction.

  • 01-10-2008 7:08 PM In reply to

    Re: Torben B. has been sacked!!!!!

    I would have preferred that B&O had their mobile telephones made in Japan, but which company would have done that?  I am not sure what you mean about the poor quality of the Serene.  I have one and it has been fine.  Software problems?  Maybe some have had it, but that's not limited to B&O.  We have to understand that there will always be people who criticize B&O, simply because those who purchase it have top of the line standards, and those who don't, won't have it, or can't afford it, criticize it simply because they don't have it.  So, what one has to do is hear the musc beyond the "noise" and be self-critical enough to know what needs to be corrected and what seems to be fine.  It's a constant and daily exercise that any good company must perform.  I think B&O does it more than one thinks.  To me, it's all about always returning to one's roots, and for B&O that is in Europe.  Remember, this isn't the first time a number of people have foretold the downfall of B&O, but I think the Danes, and the folks who make up the international character of a company such as B&O, i.e. the "foreign nationals", are highly professional and pretty competent individuals, so they are trying their very best to plan and chart out a viable future.  Let's wait and see what happens and sometimes not be too quick to judge.
  • 01-10-2008 7:18 PM In reply to

    Re: Torben B. has been sacked!!!!!

    tomorrow, I give back my beovision 8. I am sorry for the B&O ceo, but, please look at apple ten years ago, and follow that direction: vision, just vision
  • 01-10-2008 7:23 PM In reply to

    • AT
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    Re: Torben B. has been sacked!!!!!

    soundproof:
    I feel that a few critics are making the mistake of focusing too much on price, relative to a brand that is operating in the premium-to-luxury market.


    IMHO, for this You must have premium-to-luxury product. The luxury price is not enough to make something special.

    soundproof:
    I can get a meal at Burger King, or I can go to El Bulli.


    Unfortunately I don't know El bulli, but I think, it's a good example. If You go to a premium restaurant, than You want
    something special, not an ordenary hamburger, because if You wish only a simple hamburger in five minutes - You
    will choose a fast food restaurant without any question.

    IMHO, there is no problem (but real strange) if a premium class restaurant has a hamburger on the menu, but, if the Whopper tastes better, what will be Your first idea if the luxury hamburger costs ten times more than a Whopper?

    Why is it so expensive? Will You order it next time? No.

    And what will happen, if this restaurant try to sell You only Whopper style hamburgers for ten times more money? You will think, they are crazy, and You will go to a Burger King.

    So, IMHO the problem starts if You are able to compare the hamburgers, because they are almost the same. Maybe
    all the parts are coming from absolutely the same farm/grocery and so on.

    In this case, is there any reason on NOT TO compare them? NO!

    On topic, and on this way: Is there any chance with an LCD/plasma TV on not to compare them to the other brands? Is there any chance not to compare an audio system to other brands?

    NO!

    What's the difference?

    In the past, You were not able to find anything to compare the B&O products. The quality, the art, the design
    was so uniq, that there was no questioning about the price. It costed that money, and that's all folks. If You wished to have this products, you must have to pay for them. And because they were uniq, they clearly showed,
    that You are not just wealthy, but You have a good "taste". As I mentioned earlyer, for example there is nothing to compare to the Beosystem 2500, which takes only 10 cm from any room, if it's installed on the wall. "The incredible flying system". And, if You toke a look on any other TV's quality, than there was not even a chance to question: Which one is the better one. 
    And if the better one costs more, than it was the price of the better quality. Even a lot, even a less,
    but it was the price of the luxury FEELING, and the incredible, uncomparable quality.

    Today, if You take a look around, You can see a lot's of as good, or even better(!) quality products for a lot less money.
    So, currently You can pay less for a better quality.

    IMHO, the question is really not about the price, but, the question is about the quality, the value and the feeling You got for Your money. And currently, B&O intend to sell hamburgers against to luxury food... for more money. 
  • 01-10-2008 7:29 PM In reply to

    • Puncher
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    Re: Torben B. has been sacked!!!!!

    Before I start I will admit that I've skipped many of the longer posts in this thread. What I have to sat I hope will change an opinion or two. I have experience of sourcing product in the former "Eastern Europe" and the "Far East". I can say that both can be fine suppliers - it depends upon the suppliers selected. My own Eastern European experience (and I'm there next week) is with my own company's plant and, after initial problems and speculation, I have to say they are a commited bunch that produce product that easily match that we produced in the UK. As for the Far East, think of computer motherboards, computer power supplies, LCD and Plasma panels. Yes I can source cheap and cheerful product but most consumer electronics have come from the Far (and Farer) East for many years - there are high quality (and not) suppliers there who can deliver to a specification.

    The difference is in the design, specification and quality control of the manufacturer (where ever they may be). It is possible to design and sell high quality product that is manufactured in the Far East!

    B&O in Denmark have world class, leading manufacturing facilities - but don't assume that this is necessarily in electronics - their core manufacturing competancy may well be their aluminium processing plant!

    The future of B&O, for me, lies in their design (total system integration, industrial design (i.e. looks) and clever targetting of their efforts).

    I would suggest totally digital media distribution (audio and video), match or better best picture in class (sourced hardware components as present, own DSP/Software), excel in audio (again digital throughout but concentrate on their core competancies - digital amps, acoustic lens' and stunning design).

    As such I worry about the price differentials between B&O panel TV's and the best of the rest (Pioneer & Panasonic) but I can see the value of BL5's. The trick will be producing a coherent range whereby the future Lab3's, Lab9's and Lab5's are steps up the audio quality ladder while being substitutable within the same digital system. I will accept extortionate prices only when there are perceptable benefits!

    Also members here have demonstrated the ability of an off the shelf MP3 player to outperform B&O's best remore control offering. There is a message to be had here - no-one wants to have to mess around confguring systems, it should be thoughtless and seamless.

    I think the move to a high speed digital "masterlink" based system, mentioned elsewhere, capable of distributing audio and video will be the basis of such a system I have outlined above - the issue is when the protocol and matching hardware becomes available. It can't come too soon to bolster B&O's flagging reputation!

    Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.

  • 01-10-2008 7:42 PM In reply to

    Re: Torben B. has been sacked!!!!!

    Here I am, sat listening to fabulous Bang & Olufsen products old and new reading todays headlines in disbelief.

    What can I say? The wrong man has gone! yes, B&O has its problems.. lack of continuity in its product range [dependant how you look at it] but....... the figures say a lot. All markets grew with the exception of the UK..... come on.... does that NOT say something? There is NO UK Marketing Director..... lack of quality and experiance between a lot of the UK HO staff and a Managing Director that has seen considerably better times.

    Should B&O really be in automotive? is Audi and Aston Martin the route to reviving past fortunes? is a partnership with Samsung really in its best interests? OR should B&O be sticking to what it does best? and that is manufactring and selling through its franchised stores TRUE Bang & Olufsen products that we all crave and desire?

    We ALL want TRUE B&O products! not imitations, gimmics or copies of our competitors and they HAVE to work to current and demanded UK standards!

    All this mention about a bad 6 to 8 months and outsourcing to revive the brand is bad news! [from routers/forbes etc]

    Any new CEO will have to look at the whole picture..... and there will be UK casualties yet to come! Derek Mottershead may have revived the UK before.... but he is too old to make the much needed changes now! The UK needs someone who will deliver what we need! want! and crave!

     

  • 01-10-2008 7:43 PM In reply to

    Re: Torben B. has been sacked!!!!!

    it's amazing... engadget loves serenata...

    http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/01/10/hands-on-with-samsung-and-bang-and-olufsens-svelte-serenata/

    I post this link here, because I think that we must understand where B&O could be great... think different (!), make something that nobody does, you have not spend billions in d&r but they must put ideas... genius...

  • 01-10-2008 7:50 PM In reply to

    Re: Torben B. has been sacked!!!!!

    One of the problems on products getting obsolete is maybe the amount of different standards and formats we have today. Whether the majority of customers could afford B&O or not. I am not saying it's wrong to first spend money on researching formats and standards and see if they are to last more than 5 years. The problem comes when the other brands (some mentioned before) producing mostly short-life products have the ability to create a new product for every format.

    Upon the introduction of a new format (let's say it's going last) some people wanting the latest tech may say B&O is lagging a bit behind.

    BUT

    In my opinion it's great that B&O has been careful with which formats to include in their systems. There has been much less formats in the past and it has probably been an easier decision with formats in the earlier days. But for example it was a good choice not make BETA recorder after VCR, even though beta is more proffesional format and would for that reason suit better for B&O, in theory. And as we saw, beta never reached the home user as VHS did. Just an opinion. Same carefullness (if you can call it that) paid off with minidisc, which actually met the users though didn't last very long as frequently used format.

    Just thoughts, just thoughts. =)
     

  • 01-10-2008 8:15 PM In reply to

    • AT
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    Re: Torben B. has been sacked!!!!!

    redfresnel:
    In my opinion it's great that B&O has been careful with which formats to include in their systems. There has been much less formats in the past and it has probably been an easier decision with formats in the earlier days. But for example it was a good choice not make BETA recorder after VCR, even though beta is more proffesional format and would for that reason suit better for B&O, in theory.


    I don't agree. The VHS vs Beta was a totally different problem: different tapes, mechanism, heads, and so on. There was no chance to integrate them, and they were really expensive for the first time. This also can be said about laserdisc, Video2000 and so on, so I'am agree, not to invest to a minor and special technology is a good decision. To make something more expensive to offer a rare format is not a good policy.

    But the HD/SACD formats are totally different, because they are mostly and only software things, because You can use the same disc, the same mechanism, and the same electronics to play them - for cheap. And this way it's a real
    good question: If a noname chinese factory can sell You in Europe a CD/SACD/DVD-A player for GBP 30, then why
    a GBP 3000 thing doesn't support these formats? If You can purchase for GBP 400 a BR/HD DVD combo, then why
    B&O doesn't offer it in a ten times more expensive player?

    So, not to offer the cheap and easy solution for the premium quality in the premium class - IMHO it's not a good policy.
  • 01-10-2008 9:39 PM In reply to

    Re: Torben B. has been sacked!!!!!

    Please new B&O ceo take a look to these guys in Sweden, what do you think about a partnership with them on the next mobile phone (your design, your speakers, their technology):

     http://www.neonode.com/en/on-stage/products/n2/introduction/watch-the-video/ 

  • 01-10-2008 10:31 PM In reply to

    • Beolab
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    Re: Torben B. has been sacked!!!!!

    Kevin:

    Sad to see him go I must say. I suspect he won´t be leaving with just a box of chocolates and a bottle of wine though (maybe a bottle opener WinkLaughing) since most CEO have substantial packages when leaving nowadays.

    It will be interesting to see what the board mean about high quality audio and video products....... see I knew they should have brought out a new Beogram!

    Seriously though it does seem to be a bit of a kneejerk reaction nothing worse than a rudderless ship. 

     

    I think they mean that B&o will produce more things by them self and go the old way with solid conservative products..

    I think one day maybe they will produce their own plasma/LCD panels and Blue-ray players...

    I think more solid products and less abstract multimedia products (Like: Beosound 5) and less rebadged products is the right way for B&o...

    For example to make a solid ground and brand: Make: High End speakers, High End TV´s , High End Blu-ray/CD-players + the CAT-5 LINKsystem...

    (And throw the 400Gb hard-drive with WiFi Beosound 5, DVD2, BS6, Beomedia 2 in the trashcan because it isn't B&O at all..)

    My 2 cents... 

    BL8000 MkII Black

  • 01-10-2008 10:40 PM In reply to

    Re: Torben B. has been sacked!!!!!

    Dear All:

     

    Perhaps, the refocus into its core businesses implies no more questionable rebranded Samsung MP3 players and cell phones.  

    Dario 

    When I hear music, I fear no danger. I see no foe... Thoreau
  • 01-10-2008 11:17 PM In reply to

    • Dude1
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    Re: Torben B. has been sacked!!!!!

    This is interesting and unexpected news.

    But from the knowledge i have, Bang is due to emabark on a new structure through Europe, which will enable it to have more control.  It is also likely to boost earnings also.

    I have had the privelage of being in the loop of Bang for some time. So i have had a greater understanding of its strategy and can understand where it is trying to head.

    Number one is recognition - hence, BV8, BS6, BS3, Serene / Serenata, BL4.  These products are "lower cost" but enable "younger" people to establish themselves with the brand. People will argue that they shouldnt be doing this as it cheapens the brand and beleive me their are seniors within the business who agree here - but it does bring more awareness of the products to consumers - especially within magazines / articles etc.  It allows people considering other products to experience the Bang difference and also grow accustomed with the products.  It also allows sales through small items to help people work towards larger products and have a medium to communicate with as new product releases will be communicated to even smaller purchasers.  This is one of Bangs real weaknesses, having a very small recognition base.  I mean if you talk to some people, they have never heard of the 80 year old company.

    Also, products like the BV8 which are'nt too bad for the $ comparison allow people who have had MX etc TV's and older to update to a simple, good looking LCD tv and have a simple to use interface and great sound with a good picture.  I realise the lack of connectivity is an issue - but no doubt will come in time.  We all know its made in asia, but at the end of the day is not too bad tv.  How many forum users have an MX, as some people simply cannot afford the huge money of some of the other sets. 

    Also, once people experience the salespeople at Bang, with the quality of service, dedication of staff members and Bang environment that you are dealt with - most cannot go back to TV sharks at other retailers - who simply sell you what they get the biggest bonuses for. Bang sales teams overall are sincere.  They also stand behind their product.  Most owners of older Bang products can still receive parts and service. Imagine taking an old Sony, Sharp or Philips to some service agents these days.  They usually use this as an excuse to trade you up!

    People in this forum carry on about having only very expensive product and forgetting the rest.  But i think what this means is concentrating on what they know best.  There are certainly points for this. The quality niggles of some products are software related and i know for a fact that this is being addressed with more resources being placed here currently.  QC is also being closely followed. Heads are rolling about this.

    People also comment on the fact that Bangvisions are very expensive.  They always have been. There really is so much that goes into a Bangvision in terms of Panel quality, signal maintenace and other vision clear elements it sometimes makes me wonder byt the time mosta re partially hand assembled, shipped and sold that Bang actually makes a profit, as retailers often arent running on huge margins at all. I saw 60% rolled around here.  I dont think Torben would be dismissed if this was the case...in fact he would be hard to contact on his learjet and  travelling from meeting to meeting in his RR Phantom.  Some Bangvisions once you start to look at what actually goes in making these you can see where the $$$ goes. I mean just look at some of the stands! They weigh a tonne and are made out of genuine materials...who else does this? No one i can think of.  Have you actually taken a look at the picture of a Bangvision lately.  I dont think they are too bad.....go compare to some other sets.

    I think you will see some truly inspirational products this year, some real stunning things.  They will excite and delight consumers.  I think you will also see futher integration. Watch this space.

    I beleive the rolling of Torben has a lot to do with the 29% downgrade in stocks, based more or less on the US structure - most other countries Bang makes a profit and is one of the only companys in electronics to do so.  The US market struggles as recognition of the Bang brand is hopelessly small. The company is invisible next to Panasonic / Sony etc - it takes a long time to educate the public on why Bang is different and special and a lot of people just dont get it.

     Bang is a company of worldwide, less than 3000 employees. I think there are more people employed to make coffees at Sonys head office than this. The company is tiny and simply cant do things like Sony can. It cant and it wont. But it is trying to grow the best way it knows it can,  - how many members here would buy Bang if it was taken over by Samsung or Sony or another huge giant - this is a huge concern as everyone of the afrorementioned and a good deal more could buy Bang tomorrow without it even registering on its books.  The Bang brand is simply so well admired by others.

    The fact that the US market will be struggling even further over the next few years due to various wars and credit companys failing wont help with consumer spending.  This cant help.

     A member mentioned that Bang dont seem to pay attention to this site.  You would be surprised at how much this site is perused by Bang.

    I think a replacement is already lined up.  Torben did some great things, with a leagacy of a large range of products to leave.  Its going to be an interesting time ahead for the company - i think it will do just fine.  Once you own Bang, you never go back.

     

     

     

     

  • 01-10-2008 11:40 PM In reply to

    Re: Torben B. has been sacked!!!!!

    finally some sense to this topic. I have been following the past few hours with much interest.

    I tend to lean towards the "old school" and think B&O shouldn't be making products like serene or BL4's or BeoSound 6.

    B&O would do better to stick to the core products of exceptional Vision & Sound solutions & concentrate on improving the BeoLink System.

    I totally agree with Dude1 that the BeoVisions are truly in a league of their own. The picture is much more natural and the build quality is unique.

    There has been problems with reliability and it seems that heads are rolling because of this and i hope to see changes in this area soon.

    Previous comments on adopting new technologies have also been well thought out. B&O will always be careful and rightly so. They can't afford to make mistakes like sony can. Mini Disc is a classic example as was betamax. It looks at the moment like sony have it right with BluRay though.

    I'm sure that B&O will go on strong and this boning of Torben is a knee jerk reaction to shareholder pressure.

    I look forward to the coming years to see what B&O can do to surprise and inspire us.

    jazz

  • 01-10-2008 11:53 PM In reply to

    Torben B. Leaving - Serenata Review

    scognamiglio:

    it's amazing... engadget loves serenata...

    http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/01/10/hands-on-with-samsung-and-bang-and-olufsens-svelte-serenata/

    I post this link here, because I think that we must understand where B&O could be great... think different (!), make something that nobody does, you have not spend billions in d&r but they must put ideas... genius...

    Scognamiglio, thank you very much for including this.  This is what I have been talking about.  I love the look of this telephone.  I do have one small observation/question, which I will state here again:  Why didn't they make this a quad band phone, especially if they are trying to do better in the USA?.  I'll still get it, and my Serene is great.  I just wish Serene had a speakerphone, so that is why I am getting the Serenata, and I'll give my Serene to family.  Bravo Bang & Olufsen!
     

  • 01-11-2008 12:25 AM In reply to

    • Dave
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-17-2007
    • Brisbane, Australia
    • Posts 2,328
    • Bronze Member

    Re: Torben B. Leaving - Serenata Review

    I agree that sound and vision should be the focus, and maybe these smaller products were ideas of Torbens?

     

    “Quality is never an accident; it is always the result of intelligent effort.”

    Your health and well-being comes first and fore-most.

     

     

  • 01-11-2008 1:00 AM In reply to

    • Dude1
    • Top 500 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on 09-18-2007
    • London
    • Posts 189
    • Bronze Member

    Re: Torben B. Leaving - Serenata Review

    Not at all. Bang has a board, which would ok all of these.  The smaller items, have not been a failure - although many seem to be leaning to this way of thinking.  The reality is, these decisions are complex as business is. Bang is doing fine and its strategy have helped its profitability markedly.

  • 01-11-2008 2:03 AM In reply to

    Re: Torben B. Leaving - Serenata Review

    Dude1 i've sent you a PM.
  • 01-11-2008 2:27 AM In reply to

    • 355f
    • Top 100 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-19-2007
    • Posts 655
    • Bronze Member

    Re: Torben B. has been sacked!!!!!

    Beolab:
    Kevin:

    Sad to see him go I must say. I suspect he won´t be leaving with just a box of chocolates and a bottle of wine though (maybe a bottle opener WinkLaughing) since most CEO have substantial packages when leaving nowadays.

    It will be interesting to see what the board mean about high quality audio and video products....... see I knew they should have brought out a new Beogram!

    Seriously though it does seem to be a bit of a kneejerk reaction nothing worse than a rudderless ship. 

     

    I think they mean that B&o will produce more things by them self and go the old way with solid conservative products..

    I think one day maybe they will produce their own plasma/LCD panels and Blue-ray players...

    The entire capital of B&O wold not provide enough money to even consider making these items, Even the major brands cant do it and make profit

  • 01-11-2008 2:33 AM In reply to

    Re: Torben B. has been sacked!!!!!

    9 LEE:

    A lot of sense has been posted on this thread already. Some i agree with completely, and some i question - but all valid.

    One thing that MUST be remembered is that 90% of the times when we buy a premium product, we buy with our hearts - not out heads.

    When i first got into B&O, i saw it as a huge importance that the products were made by Danes - intelligent, quality conscious and proud of the brand.  It was a kind of romanticism which added so much kudos to the product, and i loved it!  Bang & Olufsen meant 'Made in Denmark' and i was more than happy to pay a premium for that.  

    Without of course disrespecting the Chinese/Korean manufacturers, i am afraid that for many years they have become synonimous with mass-production and cheap manufacturing - and thinking of paying what is really an 'ultra-premium' price for something that has very little or nothing to do with Denmark in terms of manufacture strikes me as Bang & Olufsen taking me for a ride. 

    I want B&O to be Danish, and i'll pay for that.  I want to think of the men and women in the whisper quiet factory floor painstakingly checking every single component.. i'll pay for that. I want to hear dealers being proud to sell products where 99.99% arrive perfect, where their installers don't have the agonisingly embarrassing experience of setting up a new product and finding it not working. I'll pay for that.

    In short, if you're going to charge the earth - make buying the product an experience. Make it special. Make it Danish.

    Lee 

     

    Well said, Lee!

    I will also pay for that.

    Marcus 

  • 01-11-2008 3:05 AM In reply to

    • 355f
    • Top 100 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-19-2007
    • Posts 655
    • Bronze Member

    Re: Torben B. has been sacked!!!!!

    Dude1:

    This is interesting and unexpected news.

    , BV8, BS6, BS3, Serene / Serenata, BL4.  These products are "lower cost" but enable "younger" people to establish themselves with the brand. People will argue that they shouldnt be doing this as it cheapens the brand and beleive me their are seniors within the business who agree here - but it does bring more awareness of the products to consumers - especially within magazines / articles etc.  It allows people considering other products to experience the Bang difference and also grow accustomed with the products.  It also allows sales through small items to help people work towards larger products and have a medium to communicate with as new product releases will be communicated to even smaller purchasers.  This is one of Bangs real weaknesses, having a very small recognition base.  I mean if you talk to some people, they have never heard of the 80 year old company.

    Also, products like the BV8 which are'nt too bad for the $ comparison allow people who have had MX etc TV's and older to update to a simple, good looking LCD tv and have a simple to use interface and great sound with a good picture.  I realise the lack of connectivity is an issue - but no doubt will come in time.  We all know its made in asia, but at the end of the day is not too bad tv.  How many forum users have an MX, as some people simply cannot afford the huge money of some of the other sets. 

    Also, once people experience the salespeople at Bang, with the quality of service, dedication of staff members and Bang environment that you are dealt with - most cannot go back to TV sharks at other retailers - who simply sell you what they get the biggest bonuses for. Bang sales teams overall are sincere.  They also stand behind their product.  Most owners of older Bang products can still receive parts and service. Imagine taking an old Sony, Sharp or Philips to some service agents these days.  They usually use this as an excuse to trade you up!

    People in this forum carry on about having only very expensive product and forgetting the rest.  But i think what this means is concentrating on what they know best.  There are certainly points for this. The quality niggles of some products are software related and i know for a fact that this is being addressed with more resources being placed here currently.  QC is also being closely followed. Heads are rolling about this.

    People also comment on the fact that Bangvisions are very expensive.  They always have been. There really is so much that goes into a Bangvision in terms of Panel quality, signal maintenace and other vision clear elements it sometimes makes me wonder byt the time mosta re partially hand assembled, shipped and sold that Bang actually makes a profit, as retailers often arent running on huge margins at all. I saw 60% rolled around here.  I dont think Torben would be dismissed if this was the case...in fact he would be hard to contact on his learjet and  travelling from meeting to meeting in his RR Phantom.  Some Bangvisions once you start to look at what actually goes in making these you can see where the $$$ goes. I mean just look at some of the stands! They weigh a tonne and are made out of genuine materials...who else does this? No one i can think of.  Have you actually taken a look at the picture of a Bangvision lately.  I dont think they are too bad.....go compare to some other sets.

    I think you will see some truly inspirational products this year, some real stunning things.  They will excite and delight consumers.  I think you will also see futher integration. Watch this space.

    I beleive the rolling of Torben has a lot to do with the 29% downgrade in stocks, based more or less on the US structure - most other countries Bang makes a profit and is one of the only companys in electronics to do so.  The US market struggles as recognition of the Bang brand is hopelessly small. The company is invisible next to Panasonic / Sony etc - it takes a long time to educate the public on why Bang is different and special and a lot of people just dont get it.

     Bang is a company of worldwide, less than 3000 employees. I think there are more people employed to make coffees at Sonys head office than this. The company is tiny and simply cant do things like Sony can. It cant and it wont. But it is trying to grow the best way it knows it can,  - how many members here would buy Bang if it was taken over by Samsung or Sony or another huge giant - this is a huge concern as everyone of the afrorementioned and a good deal more could buy Bang tomorrow without it even registering on its books.  The Bang brand is simply so well admired by others.

    The fact that the US market will be struggling even further over the next few years due to various wars and credit companys failing wont help with consumer spending.  This cant help.

     A member mentioned that Bang dont seem to pay attention to this site.  You would be surprised at how much this site is perused by Bang.

    I think a replacement is already lined up.  Torben did some great things, with a leagacy of a large range of products to leave.  Its going to be an interesting time ahead for the company - i think it will do just fine.  Once you own Bang, you never go back.

     

     

     

     

    So the BV8 at £2800 with no dvb and very average performance will allow younger people to establish themselves?!! This just cant be true- if anything it will put them off, whataever one thinks about B&O pricing this is a product that has been made cheaply and shoule be sold at a far lower price with dvb

    Bangvisions have alwasy been expensive, the avant was £5500 at  a time the top of the range sony was half that price = but then the avant offered a unique design, better picture and far better sound.

    Now the price differentail is not twice, three , four, five, six. its SEVEN times the costs! and the performance in many cases is no better

    As for further integration - some of the recent products have not offered that

    I was not making reference to retail profit but to gross margin at B&O and taht can be confirmed in draft accounts

  • 01-11-2008 3:31 AM In reply to

    • AT
    • Top 500 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on 04-16-2007
    • Posts 187
    • Founder

    Re: Torben B. has been sacked!!!!!

    Dude1:
    Also, products like the BV8 which are'nt too bad for the $ comparison allow people who have had MX etc TV's and older to update to a simple, good looking LCD tv and have a simple to use interface and great sound with a good picture. 


    I'am totally disagree. For example I have an MX TV, but never ever in my mind was a doubt on keep it against to replace it with any LCD TV. First of all, the MX picture is still a lot better (unconparable IMHO), a better sound, and it has a two way option, and it looks special. So, can You please give me a clue, on why I should replace it with an expensive TV with less knowledge? Just because it's new? Ok, it's new. But where is the advantage?
     
    Dude1:
    How many forum users have an MX, as some people simply cannot afford the huge money of some of the other sets. 


    I think, I can't even agree with the arguments like this: The critics comes from the people, who can't afford B&O. But IMHO, it's a totally brand new idea, that if somebody owns a B&O, than he hasen't got the money to purchase a B&O...
    I think it's time to completly forget jealousy. It's about reasonable prices, and the need for the best quality with
    innovative technology, and for art and ideas. These things I can easily find in the former B&O products, but I think that's
    the ones You can hard to find in the new products... and it's not about the money. It has absolutely nothing to do with 
    the money.

    Dude1:
    People also comment on the fact that Bangvisions are very expensive. 


    ...for that knowledge, and quality, and technology. Big difference IMHO! For a price of an MX, You were not able to get a real better TV at that time. With a Beolink 7000 - there was nothing to compare. Linked Your home - it was breathtaking. Is it true now? No. You don't even have these options! Even for money, You can't buy this things - which
    are currently supported by other companies. 

    Dude1:
    go compare to some other sets.


    I did, and I was sad about the result. I can't find the surplus for the plus price... :( To pay more for the name, is ok. To pay ten times more - I think I need a lot more thing.

  • 01-11-2008 3:39 AM In reply to

    Re: Torben B. has been sacked!!!!!

    i agree with 355 , the bv8 sticks out like a sore thumb and is symptomatic of what's wrong with bno now

    they're pushing it as a cutting edge tv to a young age group , but technically it's stone age , plus it looks very cheap ( very beocentre 2000 ) and leaving out dvb-t , when analogue is about to be switched off soon is simply brain shatteringly stupid

    if bno are going to play with the big boys they desperately need to get their act together AND FAST ! , hire some real tech boffins that know  a bit about 2008 av technology 

     i suggest they dramatically pare down their range , lower prices to realistic levels and forget the silly little rebadged toys , oh and for gods sake get rid of samsung , they're not the kind of company bno's image needs !

    popgear is grate™

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