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ARCHIVED FORUM -- April 2007 to March 2012
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This is the first Archived Forum which was active between 17th April 2007 and 1st March February 2012

 

Latest post 01-22-2008 9:04 PM by darioazul. 168 replies.
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  • 01-10-2008 10:28 AM In reply to

    Re: Torben B. has been sacked!!!!!

    Graham1982:

    When questioned about the DAB issue with Beosound 3 it appeared as if he was embaressed but seemed a little nonplussed as if such a massive flaw was no real issue!

    To be fair, outside the UK this is really not so much of an issue. DAB has only really taken off in the UK due to the unstinting support of the BBC. In the UK though it is a deal breaker. The Beosound 1 was released before DAB took off so I was not surprised this isn't fitted. 

  • 01-10-2008 10:56 AM In reply to

    • Kevin
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    Re: Torben B. has been sacked!!!!!

    Sad to see him go I must say. I suspect he won´t be leaving with just a box of chocolates and a bottle of wine though (maybe a bottle opener WinkLaughing) since most CEO have substantial packages when leaving nowadays.

    It will be interesting to see what the board mean about high quality audio and video products....... see I knew they should have brought out a new Beogram!

    Seriously though it does seem to be a bit of a kneejerk reaction nothing worse than a rudderless ship. 

  • 01-10-2008 10:57 AM In reply to

    • Daniel
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    Re: Torben B. has been sacked!!!!!

    Peter:

    To be fair, outside the UK this is really not so much of an issue. DAB has only really taken off in the UK due to the unstinting support of the BBC. In the UK though it is a deal breaker. The Beosound 1 was released before DAB took off so I was not surprised this isn't fitted.

    In Sweden they´ve canceled DAB last year after paying almost 10 million £ in the project. So we don´t care about DAB.

    Beovision LX5500, BeoCord V6000, BeoSound 9000, BeoLab 8000, BeoLab 3500, BeoLab 2000, BeoVox1, BeoCom 6000, Form1, LightControl 1

  • 01-10-2008 11:01 AM In reply to

    Re: Torben B. has been sacked!!!!!

    What a big topic! I certainly wasn't expecting to hear such news. However, it seems too much of a coincidence that the share price fell by 29% just the other day and then today this.

    As for the comment on focussing back to audio and visual products, could this mean stop faffing around with Audi and Aston Martin (a joke in my opinion)?

    I would also agree that B&O as a company would suffer more than most during this particularly unstable economic period. I would not have invested my money in B&O over the past 6 months. Do we know if any other board members have been fired?

  • 01-10-2008 11:09 AM In reply to

    Re: Torben B. has been sacked!!!!!

    Daniel:

    In Sweden they´ve canceled DAB last year after paying almost 10 million £ in the project. So we don´t care about DAB.

    Same in Finland, or maybe it was two years ago. Nobody had receivers, so nobody was interested.

    We do have some radio stations in DVB-T distribution, however, and it isn't much worse as far as quality goes. Not too portable, though...
     

    -mika

  • 01-10-2008 11:35 AM In reply to

    Re: Torben B. has been sacked!!!!!

    To be fair, its a sign of the times and all big names/players are being managed out, moved on etc if profits/sales are down as this "global credit crunch" starts to bite home...

    Given the state of the global trade market,  their is natural concern amongst investors etc about where this uncertainty will end.  The last thread which talked about the BS5 and how this would really need to justify its price tag may be something that B&O have to take on board seriously in a market which is forever moving forward and a product of this nature ideally having a shelf life of 10 years being reduced to two possibly three to keep up with the market, is this something B&O can afford to do? as I would imagine the models they work to are long and not short term? maybe a small but important number of concerns that the accountants will have about loss of revenue going forward when customers maybe reluctant to spend as they have done over the last 3-4 years.

    There will be more public hangings of CEOs or boardroom staff to come in this new year by the looks of it... its just when it starts to feed into the lower end of the payscale and you start talking of mass redundancies and trade being moved away to compensate loss in profits etc that it might start to hit home and we are already seeing this and to me some have took an early preemptive approach and started to make redundant certain areas or streamline those which are unnecessary.

    Sad news though.. I would imagine that there will be a huge shakeup in the pipeline in B&O starting with the top dog and I doubt this desicison was taken lightly.. may have even been a number of options and this seemed best? who knows..

  • 01-10-2008 11:35 AM In reply to

    Re: Torben B. has been sacked!!!!!

    the problem is that the uk is bno's second biggest market and we're a tad more developed than certain parts of the world regarding technology methinx , freeview's been around for ten years ! and still bno treat it as an afterthought...

    bno need to peg their equipment at the very top of sony and panasonic technically

    so when you buy a bno tv , you're not only assured of a briliant design and build quality but state of the art technology

    bno just don't deliver on the latter i'm afraid 

    i was going to buy a tv for a bedroom last year , i wanted a bno but not only was it very expensive but it didn't have near enough connections 

    popgear is grate™

  • 01-10-2008 11:43 AM In reply to

    Re: Torben B. has been sacked!!!!!

    I guess then (I do not have any evidence to back my claim) that the UK is not the biggest market for B&O products and that as a consequence it would indeed not be that important to have DAB incorporated into its equipment. However, this still does not explain the Beocentre 1 issue, but then perhaps this was before his time.

    Has DAB been rolled out in the US? Again this is a bit of a blanket statement. However, as a child (probably as a result of Hollywood) I thought that America was the most technologically advanced country in the world. However, it would appear that their mobile phone network is on 2.5 or less in general and there is not much 3g and that the infrastructure for the uploading of information over the internet is quite poor. I think I will leave this issue before I get into hot water - this is as far as my technical knowledge goes. However, if the US is as far behind the times with regard to radio perhaps DAB would not be important for the US market either.

     I think the opposite of most people in this thread who have stated that they expect B&O to be hit hard in the current financial climate. B&O is not a mainstream brand and never has been. Thus those that can afford to buy B&O new are either enthusiasts or high wage earners. I would understand this statement if B&O was in the same league as high street retailers and high street brands but it is not. Of course nothing is 100 per cent recession proof but I feel it is brands such as Rolex, B&O, Rolls Royce etc that will be least affected because they aim at the top end of the market - surely this is why they install sound systems in Astons and not Astras?

    I think that the main issue with B&O is its sales structure. The franchise system provides the individual owners of stores too much autonomy in my opinion. This is most definitely the case with pre-owned kit - these prices fluctuate wildly. The fact they appear almost to be run as independent stores is alarming. If you compare this to The Subway franchise model (I know they sell widely different products) there is a far more rigorous control over stock and how it is sold. My friend owns a Subway franchise so I speak with some kudos. Basically if something is not presented or sold in line with the strict protocols laid down by Subway head office and it is discovered in one of the many spot checks they do on each restaurant, the franchise after a few warnings can be taken away from its owner.

     

    I think I have written enough nonsense for now!

  • 01-10-2008 11:47 AM In reply to

    • 355f
    • Top 100 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-19-2007
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    Re: Torben B. has been sacked!!!!!

    mobeyone:

    To be fair, its a sign of the times and all big names/players are being managed out, moved on etc if profits/sales are down as this "global credit crunch" starts to bite home...

    Given the state of the global trade market,  their is natural concern amongst investors etc about where this uncertainty will end.  The last thread which talked about the BS5 and how this would really need to justify its price tag may be something that B&O have to take on board seriously in a market which is forever moving forward and a product of this nature ideally having a shelf life of 10 years being reduced to two possibly three to keep up with the market, is this something B&O can afford to do? as I would imagine the models they work to are long and not short term? maybe a small but important number of concerns that the accountants will have about loss of revenue going forward when customers maybe reluctant to spend as they have done over the last 3-4 years.

    There will be more public hangings of CEOs or boardroom staff to come in this new year by the looks of it... its just when it starts to feed into the lower end of the payscale and you start talking of mass redundancies and trade being moved away to compensate loss in profits etc that it might start to hit home and we are already seeing this and to me some have took an early preemptive approach and started to make redundant certain areas or streamline those which are unnecessary.

    Sad news though.. I would imagine that there will be a huge shakeup in the pipeline in B&O starting with the top dog and I doubt this desicison was taken lightly.. may have even been a number of options and this seemed best? who knows..

    Most of the high end audio companies are now losing lots of money - BnO is still in profit.

    However, because the franchise system ensures that any new product has to be bought by the dealers i rather suspect that this has masked what is a much much larger drop in sales for the uk market in particular- so the situation is far worse then that shown on the balance sheet and there has been some creative accounting.

    The only way forward now for BnO is to use resources in design better and do more QUALITY manufacturing in the far east (NOT the BV8 sourcing experience!) then they could afford to develop leading products where the shelf life will be less but initial costs lower. Next will be to ditch Samsung as a partner of choice- they make rubbish price point products for the masses that are not very good anyway.

  • 01-10-2008 11:56 AM In reply to

    Re: Torben B. has been sacked!!!!!

    Graham1982:

    Has DAB been rolled out in the US? Again this is a bit of a blanket statement. However, as a child (probably as a result of Hollywood) I thought that America was the most technologically advanced country in the world. However, it would appear that their mobile phone network is on 2.5 or less in general and there is not much 3g and that the infrastructure for the uploading of information over the internet is quite poor. I think I will leave this issue before I get into hot water - this is as far as my technical knowledge goes. However, if the US is as far behind the times with regard to radio perhaps DAB would not be important for the US market either.

     I think the opposite of most people in this thread who have stated that they expect B&O to be hit hard in the current financial climate. B&O is not a mainstream brand and never has been. Thus those that can afford to buy B&O new are either enthusiasts or high wage earners. I would understand this statement if B&O was in the same league as high street retailers and high street brands but it is not. Of course nothing is 100 per cent recession proof but I feel it is brands such as Rolex, B&O, Rolls Royce etc that will be least affected because they aim at the top end of the market - surely this is why they install sound systems in Astons and not Astras?

    I think that the main issue with B&O is its sales structure. The franchise system provides the individual owners of stores too much autonomy in my opinion. This is most definitely the case with pre-owned kit - these prices fluctuate wildly. The fact they appear almost to be run as independent stores is alarming. If you compare this to The Subway franchise model (I know they sell widely different products) there is a far more rigorous control over stock and how it is sold. My friend owns a Subway franchise so I speak with some kudos. Basically if something is not presented or sold in line with the strict protocols laid down by Subway head office and it is discovered in one of the many spot checks they do on each restaurant, the franchise after a few warnings can be taken away from its owner.

     

    I think I have written enough nonsense for now!

    1. I don't think even Americans would claim to be the most technologically advanced country. In some areas - possibly - and if you restricted it to a few states, maybe. I would think Japan or Korea would be my bet.

    2. On the franchise - B&O UK are very restrictive about what is and what isn't allowed. Any deviation has to be requested and can be refused. Prices for second hand equipment varies massively as depends on condition as well as what the store bought it for. I think any store owner reading that he has too much autonomy will be having a choking fit! Laughing

  • 01-10-2008 12:03 PM In reply to

    Re: Torben B. has been sacked!!!!!

    That's cool, most of what I said is based upon observation, conjecture and dogma, thus I am happy to be corrected when wrong or slightly right!
  • 01-10-2008 12:14 PM In reply to

    • AT
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    • Joined on 04-16-2007
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    Re: Torben B. has been sacked!!!!!

    Dear Friends,

    First of all, what do You expect from a company, which almost completly ignores a FAN CLUB (yes, with REAL uppercase letters!), like this? What else could be a REAL BASE for a company, like so beautiful peoples like You can find here?

    How many ideas were here? A LOT. A real lot. Several easy, several hard, but a lot's of useful ideas. What was the reply? Nothing.

    Selling overpriced and outdated products for a lot's of money, today? Impossible mission.

    The problem is not today, because today You can get a lotsa money about the past, but what about the future? What will happen in one year, in five year? There will be a BR player - maybe? So what?

    B&O MUST find the way out, and it's really not about the consumer electronic (selling B&O for an A4 for example), but to sell B&O only for the "special peoples".

    If Apple purchases B&O, than that will be the real dead end for it, because if anybody can affort a B&O, than it will worth it - nothing. Absolutely nothing.

    I think, in several ways, in several thinkings, but there are a lot's of topics exists here about the problems here, on these pages... and, there are also several solutions, several ideas. Even, yes, even for free. Just because we like the brand.

    Ignoring us, yes, I think, it's the worse thing, a "celeb" can do. 

    If B&O loose the exclusivity, the price, the value, it will be nothing else, just like a Jaguar, made by Tata... some kind of a bad, a real bad joke.
  • 01-10-2008 12:15 PM In reply to

    • Beobird
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    Re: Torben B. has been sacked!!!!!

    It's sad to hear things like this, but it's true that B&O has lost some inspiration like some of you already said. And actually that's David Lewis his fault too, not only Torben B.

     I mean, the new Beovision 4 is just the pimped up old one, the 9 is almost the same story. Then there is the new Beolab 10 that's just a pimped up A/V 9000 without the screen. Offcourse it looks cool and I really like it, but it isn't innovating and new (like the Beo5).

     Mr. Lewis did some very very very good work, but he hasn't got much inspiration left (don't know for sure, but if I look to the new stuff..). B&O Should take a new talented guy with his head full of ideas, and put him behind the design-table Smile.

     And they must really stop with the car audio...One stereo in the a8 (or Aston Martin ONLY) is good and exclusive, but now it looks like they are milking themselfs to the bone with all those new car-brands and the whole Audi sery. They should make stuff they're good in. Not a mp3 player here, a car stereo there, and then a new phone etc..... Just concentrate on the tv/audio market, and that's hard enough with all those new technologies...
     

    We Can't Get Enough B&O Stuff...

  • 01-10-2008 12:39 PM In reply to

    • Greg
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    • Joined on 04-17-2007
    • London, UK
    • Posts 109
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    Re: Torben B. has been sacked!!!!!

    Kevin:

    I knew they should have brought out a new Beogram!

    I wish! I'd love one. I'm about to buy a Pro-ject III USB for my vinyl collection, moving it all on to digital format. I'd much rather have a brand-new Beogram, if such a thing existed!

     

    G. 

  • 01-10-2008 12:47 PM In reply to

    • Greg
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-17-2007
    • London, UK
    • Posts 109
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    Re: Torben B. has been sacked!!!!!

    Beobird:

    IAnd they must really stop with the car audio...One stereo in the a8 is good and exclusive, but now it looks like they are milking themselfs to the bone with all those new car-brands and the whole Audi sery. 

    +1.  Audi A8, R8 even, OK but my heart sinks at the prospect of an A4 with B&O branding on the speakers. To me that puts the brand into Bose territory, which is fine for Bose but B&O should be something more.

    In fact I have a broader concern that there are seemingly fewer high end brands remaining true to high end, despite a growing high end market. This seems counter-intuitive to me, especially as any brand's move down-market is not easily reversible.

    G.

    PS Personally, I'm ambivalent about Torben's departure. I think there's a terrific opportunity for B&O if they can find the right guy for the job, and that has to be a real 'product guy', someone passionate about design and the brand - not some generic US-style big corporate CEO archetype they can bring in from Best Buy or ToysRUs or whatever.

  • 01-10-2008 1:07 PM In reply to

    Re: Torben B. has been sacked!!!!!

    My take on all this:

    The company isn't losing money, but the shareholders lost nearly a third of theirs. Of course they wanted to see blood... Whether if it's any good for the company is something you can only tell in the long run. Sadly most shareholders don't want to wait that long, so Torben was sacked. It's sad, but hardly a surpise, I would say.

    Beoworld's twenty-eighth ninth prize winner and fifty-first second prize winner. Best £30 I've ever spent!

  • 01-10-2008 1:09 PM In reply to

    Re: Torben B. has been sacked!!!!!

    355f:

    However, because the franchise system ensures that any new product has to be bought by the dealers i rather suspect that this has masked what is a much much larger drop in sales for the uk market in particular- so the situation is far worse then that shown on the balance sheet and there has been some creative accounting.

    I bet this is the same for a very large and unhealthy number of businesses out there... does anyone know what the proportion of sales over the last few years were from B&O purchased from credit/finance? over good old cash?

    Even if B&O is not losing money.. what will the position be in 5 years from now or even 2 with a dramatic downturn in sales and growth as expected? can B&O maintain profit with a diverse range of mickey mouse products? or is it a return to the old school of core products sold at high prices for maximum longevity? hard in the current climate but stability is a must for B&O to survive...

    No rumours of takeovers etc flying around?

  • 01-10-2008 1:16 PM In reply to

    Re: Torben B. has been sacked!!!!!

    Peter:
    Graham1982:

    When questioned about the DAB issue with Beosound 3 it appeared as if he was embaressed but seemed a little nonplussed as if such a massive flaw was no real issue!

    To be fair, outside the UK this is really not so much of an issue. DAB has only really taken off in the UK due to the unstinting support of the BBC. In the UK though it is a deal breaker. The Beosound 1 was released before DAB took off so I was not surprised this isn't fitted. 

    So when DAB took off, just where did it go? I can't get a reliable signal and I hardly live millions of miles from civilisation. Personally I don't care if B&O go with DAB or not.

    Nor do I care about HDMI or Blu-Ray or PS3 or LCD vs Plasma or full HD or many of the other things that are often raised against B&O. My god, I must be their ideal customer!

    Regards Graham

  • 01-10-2008 1:19 PM In reply to

    Re: Torben B. has been sacked!!!!!

    Beobird:

    It's sad to hear things like this, but it's true that B&O has lost some inspiration like some of you already said. And actually that's David Lewis his fault too, not only Torben B.

    Yep and maybe it is time for B&O to move on from Mr L.. moreso if he is revisiting early designs and making them all over again as I doubt this will have gone unnoticed and if this was all ok'd by Mr T.. then it would be no surprise if next up for the axe is Lewis and co....

    Whatever happens, we are in for an interesting year...

  • 01-10-2008 1:28 PM In reply to

    Re: Torben B. has been sacked!!!!!

    mobeyone:

    355f:

    However, because the franchise system ensures that any new product has to be bought by the dealers i rather suspect that this has masked what is a much much larger drop in sales for the uk market in particular- so the situation is far worse then that shown on the balance sheet and there has been some creative accounting.

    I bet this is the same for a very large and unhealthy number of businesses out there... does anyone know what the proportion of sales over the last few years were from B&O purchased from credit/finance? over good old cash?

    Even if B&O is not losing money.. what will the position be in 5 years from now or even 2 with a dramatic downturn in sales and growth as expected? can B&O maintain profit with a diverse range of mickey mouse products? or is it a return to the old school of core products sold at high prices for maximum longevity? hard in the current climate but stability is a must for B&O to survive...

    No rumours of takeovers etc flying around?

    What I am really afraid of, is that in case of a further downturn in sales and or profits the shareholders will want to increase profits in the short run by cutting R&D investments. It may result in an increase in profits in the short run, but the long term future of the company will be at risk in that situation. The mickey mouse products, as you described them, can't be replaced by true B&O products in that case. I hope for a better future...

    I haven't heard rumours of takeovers, yet.

    Beoworld's twenty-eighth ninth prize winner and fifty-first second prize winner. Best £30 I've ever spent!

  • 01-10-2008 1:36 PM In reply to

    Re: Torben B. has been sacked!!!!!

    beocool:

    What I am really afraid of, is that in case of a further downturn in sales and or profits the shareholders will want to increase profits in the short run by cutting R&D investments. It may result in an increase in profits in the short run, but the long term future of the company will be at risk in that situation. The mickey mouse products, as you described them, can't be replaced by true B&O products in that case. I hope for a better future...

    This worries me too... the mickey mouse products I refer to may actually be seen at the moment.. I think portable mp3 and Bv8 etc... compromised B&O costing next to nothing to produce but sold at a high prices to maximise profit and possibly continue funding R&D? but when push comes to shove and something has to happen...

    Not good.

  • 01-10-2008 1:52 PM In reply to

    • ®
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    Re: Torben B. has been sacked!!!!!

    Lets hope this is a positive for B&O. I have been very disappointed with all the products released in recent years.

    The Beosound 6 mp3 player is a very poor product compared to the recent iPods. The Beolab 9 speakers are plain ugly. The overpriced Beovision 7, supplied with HD screen but standard definition DVD player. Large poor sounding PC speakers. Ridiculously overpriced mobile phones. I could go on.

    I look forward with excitement to new Apple products, but B&O has lost me. I feel more embarrassed by the release of some of their recent products. I took off my rose tinted specs some time ago. Lets hope its time for change.

  • 01-10-2008 1:54 PM In reply to

    • AT
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    Re: Torben B. has been sacked!!!!!

    IMHO, a B&O product must be a must have it, and not a product, that can be purchased... currently B&O moves to a purchaseable product against to a wished one. 

    Do You remember, what is/was the "only B&O product, that on money can't buy?! A feeling... a feeling, that is going forever. And it can't be devided from the CEO, who has the responsibility for the entire brand. THEREFORE somebody becomes a CEO. To make more profit? It's easy. Sell out the brand's name for cheap... 
    Sell a lot's of product for almost nothing, and there will be the feeling for just some years: "Yeah, I'am wealthy, I can own a B&O"...
    But, after some years, there will be a huge loss on the real welthy people...

    Just because, who wish a product, that anybody can buy?!

    Tesco value added B&O...
  • 01-10-2008 1:57 PM In reply to

    • Alex
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    Re: Torben B. has been sacked!!!!!

    guest:

    Lets hope this is a positive for B&O. I have been very disappointed with all the products released in recent years.

    The Beosound 6 mp3 player is a very poor product compared to the recent iPods. The Beolab 9 speakers are plain ugly.

    Agree 100% plain ugly ! 

  • 01-10-2008 2:04 PM In reply to

    Re: Torben B. has been sacked!!!!!

    Alex:
    guest:

    Lets hope this is a positive for B&O. I have been very disappointed with all the products released in recent years.

    The Beosound 6 mp3 player is a very poor product compared to the recent iPods. The Beolab 9 speakers are plain ugly.

    Agree 100% plain ugly ! 

    I would disagree though! I would say that the (speaker) design is or has been very provactive and edgy and it is more of a case of substance as opposed to style! I was not suprised to read that Torben had a 5 series which I think is also on par with the design of the lab9s!

    Damn those good looking 8000s!!!! but as B&O has had trouble gaining credibility in the past with pretty faces, I think it was a change in direction that saw the 9s and 5s come about... not much on the box but hell yes on the inside!

    Who knows.. in 10 years from now we may have a lab5 & 8000 love child! 

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