Saw this on Bloomberg:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601085&sid=aROaeyaKLVzY&refer=europe 

This might be a good time to buy, if you're in the market for new B&O - perhaps there'll be some special offers (beyond zero per cent finance!).

 

Lawrence 

Well spotted Lawrence..

It makes me sad - but there are some pretty fundamental flaws in the B&O strategy in my personal opinion. I won't have a detailed rant on here though - i'll just outline one or two points.

The first thing that really annoys me is the impression i get that Bang & Olufsen thinks of it's dealers that "you are very fortunate to be selling Bang & Olufsen - we are very special and you are very lucky - so be quiet and stop moaning"

Success starts on the sales floor, and it's the sales staff that stare the customer in the face and listen to his or her needs. More time should be spent listening to the people that sell the product, and less time listening to some marketing pillock with a graph and a flowchart.  Sorry to be a bit on my soap box, but i love the brand dearly and seeing this news really upset me.  I hear so many absolutely spot-on judgements and ideas from shop floor staff hewn from their customers comments and needs it's untrue - but they are ignored!

There really are some very forward thinking people coming through the ranks at Bang & Olufsen in Struer and the rest of the world, but unfortunately there are also some of what i call the "Ivory Tower" brigade.  These are the people that remain in the glory days and feel that whatever they think is right - and the rest of the world is wrong.  Well, the rest of the world speak with their wallets - so perhaps a rethink is in order..

Technological superiority made Bang & Olufsen what they were - but now the rest of the world is catching up.  Design is the new key, but the rest of the world is hot on their heels.  Bang & Olufsen can do it - but they need to really jump out of the goldfish bowl and look in on themselves to clearly see how they can beat the chasing pack. 

Lee 

 

I do love the B&O brand and have done for many years but I am also quite hard nosed in life so if B&O mess it up for themselves and go out of business then I won't be too bothered to be honest. However, I will think its a shame given their very respectable history. I respect what they did in years gone by and I have bought the products that appeal to me.

If they don't stay at the top then that's because they aren't doing enough to stay their and that's their decision to make. It s a competitive world and you need to be at the top of your game and maintain high quality to stand out from the rest. I don't part with my hard earned cash that easily. B&O have come out with a lot of rubbish in recent years. I don't like many of their recent products and I am not impressed by them. I expect something extraordinary from a company such as B&O.

I want something groundbreaking from them at least once every 2-3 years. If they can't live up to it my expectations then I will move onto the next company that can. I would not invest in B&O shares no matter how low they drop to. I don't think they are a large enough or profitable enough company to make such an investment with.

Simon.

Aside from the comments already made above, the article references the economic downturn which affects discretionary spending in a major way. And let's face it B&O is nothing if not discretionary.

I love the brand, and am committed to it b/c I enjoy it. But it is increasingly beyond my reach. Though I am still looking fwd to the BV8 here in the states.
 

I have made my opinion clear in other posts but I will say it again hear - B&O have one shot at establishing a hardware niche market and that is in the speaker arena.

They can participate in the audio source market with their ease of use, style and integration skills but it is difficult to see how they can "sell" a higher quality source than other manufacturers, especially as all audio media moves to an all digital format - (they can however build on their BL5 experience and make/sell high quality digital input speakers. Video/TV is a similar situation - picture quality is becoming both a panel game (mainly out of the hands of B&O) and a DSP game (software based and difficult to see how a significant lead can be maintained -other than in the integration sense). Again stylish panels will always sell but it is significantly more difficult to establish a clear lead in the flat panel era than it was in CRT times.

It has been pointed out many times on this forum that Apple are "stylish" and that they excel at media integration (indeed at a fraction of the price). I'm not advocating that B&O should align themselves with or follow Apple (and would strongly argue that they don't) but I feel that what is required is a total overall strategy whereby the total overall system has value. I cannot see a future in selling over price (albeit stylish) TV panels unless there is a justifiable difference in picture quality (as there was in CRT days), nor can I see a future in expensive media sources unless the operation is simple, seemless and idiotproof (immediate and without submenus).

Ultimately, in a media delivery system the picture, sound quality, flexibility and ease of use are the features that are critical to percieved quality of performance. In this vein I think that B&O can at best keep pace in the picture stakes but can, as they did in the past, impact heavily in the flexibility and ease of use areas (and from what I've heard and read of the Beo5 this isn't the answer. Think two way, self detecting, self setting). Lastly, and as I started, their biggest impact can be in the audio transducer arena. BL5's are leaders in their field, they set standards in audio performance that should be developed upon throughout the range. Digital connections throughout would build upon the existing flexibilty of B&O systems allowing distribution of audio and possibly video signals, use their digital input ICE amplifiers and thereby converting the digital source audio signals only once enroute to the user.

Products like the BL9 (as impressive as they are) with their analogue only input and the BS4 without a digital output seem to me to confuse the B&O product range in that there doesn't seem to be an overall game plan to achieve the stunning overall end result of a system that matches the best picture quality available, has digital audio throughout, whether surroundsound or stereo, is drop-dead gorgeous and is as slick in operation as Elvis at his peak.

Am I asking for too much??

(btw I'll read this again tomorrow in case I have'nt made myself clear or, alternatively, wittered on too much as I've had a drink or two tonight. The point being I'm passionate that B&O go on to re-establish their place at the top of the heap with substance and style).

 

If there sales breaks in, that shows clearly that their customers are not the ultra rich, for which they are pricing their product. if you look a ultra luxury brands like Ferrari, Rolex, Prada, Gucci and whoever there is, these do not usually notice a downturn in economy that much. 

If their customers are not ultra rich, then they are clearly pricing their products wrong and should go after lower prices combined with higher volume.

 I know most don't, but I like the idea of a beautiful redesigned Samsung TV with glas and aluminium and maybe some small improvements for picture and sound at twice the price. Some things here and there would be OK developed on their own, i.e. a Beocenter 2 or BS9000 as stand out product.

 

It's strange for me to see how people seem to think that a drop of the stock value of 29 percent means that the company is in huge economic problems.

 This is not the case from what I can see. The Stock Value on it own has nothing to do with the economic situation of the company. It is merely an indication on which economic performance the market expects in the future.

Two days ago they expected one thing. They where then disappointed by B&O making a minor negative adjustment to their own expectations to the near future (next 6 months), and the market reacted harshly.

Wait a few days and see. If I am not mistaken, a great deal of the lost 28 percent will be "won" again within a week or so. Probably not all - but a great deal.

macsat
 

It's not just a stock drop - if you read the report, analysts are warning about the short-term B&O future and sales through Dec and early Jan have been poor. I think the report said sales in the UK were down as much as 12%.

I'm not negative about B&O's future, although I am frustrated about some of the products I've bought (or wanted to buy). Four examples include:

1) Not being able to set a regular wake-up timer on my BeoSound 3 so, this means I can't ideally use it as an alarm clock. If I take it to the office or use in the kitchen, I often forget the volume can't be controlled via my Beo4, either.

2) BeoCenter 2 - at £2800 - doesn't have HDMI or upscaling, so you can't really use it with your BV4 or BV9.

3) My brand new BV7-40 MKIII is far worse at displaying SD-based football than my MKI 2004 BV7-32.

4) Behind my BeoSound 4 is a bit of a cable 'mare. I now have to buy a different stand to hide the cables. Why couldn't this have been built-in to the BeoSound 4 design?

Chris.

moxxey:

It's not just a stock drop - if you read the report, analysts are warning about the short-term B&O future and sales through Dec and early Jan have been poor. I think the report said sales in the UK were down as much as 12%.

I'm not negative about B&O's future, although I am frustrated about some of the products I've bought (or wanted to buy). Four examples include:

1) Not being able to set a regular wake-up timer on my BeoSound 3 so, this means I can't ideally use it as an alarm clock. If I take it to the office or use in the kitchen, I often forget the volume can't be controlled via my Beo4, either.

2) BeoCenter 2 - at £2800 - doesn't have HDMI or upscaling, so you can't really use it with your BV4 or BV9.

3) My brand new BV7-40 MKIII is far worse at displaying SD-based football than my MKI 2004 BV7-32.

4) Behind my BeoSound 4 is a bit of a cable 'mare. I now have to buy a different stand to hide the cables. Why couldn't this have been built-in to the BeoSound 4 design?

Chris.

It was clear one year ago that many dealers were having problems, particularly those out of the large spend hotspots. Many dealers i know were surviving on BV7, lab 8000 and bs9000 sales- and whilst all of those are good in their way the fact that ones principle sales are comming from 12 year old designs in a technology company bodes badly for the future.

One poster here indicates that so called 'high spenders' are immune from any downturn- just look at the supercar market to find out how wrong that is.

Our own company were the leaders in design in china for many years and yet now there is no bad design- even out of low rated chinese factories. Fact is BnO has become 'all brand' and largely the enthusiasts and dealers that can achieve the most have been replaced by suits- and it wins- 'the coolbrand award' the first sign of failure IMHO.

Onto products, they are too expensive thats all there is to it! prices of flat screens are down by 50% over 3 years and yet BnO have gone up. The business model is to make more and more margin out of each sale and that cannot continue. The gross margin of Bno is the higest of any consumer electronics business. They should have used design and technical expertise to produce quality products in china( like all the high end brands now do) and use that pricing to give them an edge. Instead what they do is source a product from china( as in the BV8) and price it at 6 times the buying cost!  The response from BnO for all this is to blame the dealer network and advertise for a development manager that can work with poor performing stores to turn them around- by god hes going to be busy! -

The beocentre 2 doesnt need to upscale as the BS3 in bv4/9 does that in a better way than an inbuilt scaler. A scaling chip costs $4 so im sure bno would have put this in if it influenced the results that much.

An associate recently bought a blue ray player, which also upscales connected via HDMI to a good plasma and I can confirm the results in BR performance were less good, and by some margin than standard dvd on my bv4! on the vast majority of discs.

HDMI is a nasty technology, developed for security reasons and its a pity its been adopted at all. It enables future key changes to be made easily by the manufacturers that renders equipment out of date very easily, it doesnt like runs over 5 meters and brings about many connectivity issues that we could all do without!  and it came about largely because the blue ray brigade wanted to avoid putting internal audio decoders in the products so they could be made cheaper and be reliant upon an hdmi receiver for the new codecs.One really cant complain if BnO cant produce a product where the fundamentals are not in place to offer a decent quality picture in the first place.

moxxey:

 

It's not just a stock drop - if you read the report, analysts are warning about the short-term B&O future and sales through Dec and early Jan have been poor. I think the report said sales in the UK were down as much as 12%.

I'm not negative about B&O's future, although I am frustrated about some of the products I've bought (or wanted to buy). Four examples include:

1) Not being able to set a regular wake-up timer on my BeoSound 3 so, this means I can't ideally use it as an alarm clock. If I take it to the office or use in the kitchen, I often forget the volume can't be controlled via my Beo4, either.

2) BeoCenter 2 - at £2800 - doesn't have HDMI or upscaling, so you can't really use it with your BV4 or BV9.

3) My brand new BV7-40 MKIII is far worse at displaying SD-based football than my MKI 2004 BV7-32.

4) Behind my BeoSound 4 is a bit of a cable 'mare. I now have to buy a different stand to hide the cables. Why couldn't this have been built-in to the BeoSound 4 design?

Chris.

the saying says you can fool some people sometimes but you can not fool all people all times , as much as i like b&o as a brand their policy & pricing got to be addressed to what they are offering

355f:

The beocentre 2 doesnt need to upscale as the BS3 in bv4/9 does that in a better way than an inbuilt scaler. A scaling chip costs $4 so im sure bno would have put this in if it influenced the results that much.

It might not need to upscale, but it doesn't have HDMI-out, either. As far as I know, you have to connect via SCART?

Also, don't forget I have a BS3 in my BV7-40 and I wouldn't say it does a good job upscaling SD DVDs. It does a resonable job, but they look 80% of their original form. Almost like a very good copy. I showed my BV7-40 to someone yesterday and the first thing he said is that the upscaled Bourne Ultimatum looked like a copy!

Chris.

moxxey:

355f:

The beocentre 2 doesnt need to upscale as the BS3 in bv4/9 does that in a better way than an inbuilt scaler. A scaling chip costs $4 so im sure bno would have put this in if it influenced the results that much.

It might not need to upscale, but it doesn't have HDMI-out, either. As far as I know, you have to connect via SCART?

Also, don't forget I have a BS3 in my BV7-40 and I wouldn't say it does a good job upscaling SD DVDs. It does a resonable job, but they look 80% of their original form. Almost like a very good copy. I showed my BV7-40 to someone yesterday and the first thing he said is that the upscaled Bourne Ultimatum looked like a copy!

Chris.

 

well thats the point- yes it has scart but if the bs3 does the upscaling one does not need hdmi to connect the bs2.

Secondly, the BV7 mk11 has a bs3 BASED design the processing in the BS3 matches the processing of a lumagen processor I used with a pinoeer screen- so its very good!. On SD material with a BV4 its excellent and with dvd - to be honest ive not seen anything better. As stated before its more connected with the limitations of lcd than a shortfall in processing .

Hi All,

I count myself as a true bno fan.  I have had bno since late 80's including the stunning Beosystem 6500.

I find it more and more difficult to defend buying new bno as I think prices are just way to high to what you get.  Just look at the SONOS for example.  A friend of me got it 2 years ago(!) and it outperforms bno on all aspect of multiroom sound distribution, and when it comes to net radio it even shows the name and song title on the remote (!!!) using two way communication.  It also allow you to minimise your initial investment and expand it as you need.  In short bno need to catch up fast!

When it comes to flatscreens i second 355f's post - It is spot on!

I think that this drop in the stock value of bno actually is a good thing (For us fans), because it will hopfully be a wakeup call to bno management

 

Thomas

355f:

moxxey:

355f:

The beocentre 2 doesnt need to upscale as the BS3 in bv4/9 does that in a better way than an inbuilt scaler. A scaling chip costs $4 so im sure bno would have put this in if it influenced the results that much.

It might not need to upscale, but it doesn't have HDMI-out, either. As far as I know, you have to connect via SCART?

Also, don't forget I have a BS3 in my BV7-40 and I wouldn't say it does a good job upscaling SD DVDs. It does a resonable job, but they look 80% of their original form. Almost like a very good copy. I showed my BV7-40 to someone yesterday and the first thing he said is that the upscaled Bourne Ultimatum looked like a copy!

Chris.

 

well thats the point- yes it has scart but if the bs3 does the upscaling one does not need hdmi to connect the bs2.

Secondly, the BV7 mk11 has a bs3 BASED design the processing in the BS3 matches the processing of a lumagen processor I used with a pinoeer screen- so its very good!. On SD material with a BV4 its excellent and with dvd - to be honest ive not seen anything better. As stated before its more connected with the limitations of lcd than a shortfall in processing .

This is crazy - how can a supposed top end system read a DVD, convert it to an analogue signal and then transfer it to a processing unit that redigitises the signal in order to upscale before passing on to the display panel!

The upscaler should be working with the digital data lifted from the DVD in order to preserve the source signal quality i.e. digital transmission between the BS2 and BS3! At these prices there is no excuse!

355f:

well thats the point- yes it has scart but if the bs3 does the upscaling one does not need hdmi to connect the bs2.

But the signal will deteriorate via SCART, before the BS3 gets the change to upscale effectively. Have you ever seen the difference with Sky HD through SCART compared to HDMI or components? Even Sky SD through HDMI is far superior to the picture quality via SCART.

Shrug. It still seems like a compromise to me on a very expensive DVD player.

Chris

The world stock markets are doing a high-wire balancing act these days, without a net. Any kind of negative news are pushing shares down -- and the decline in retail sales this December must have been decisive for B&O. They had projected a 15% growth and achieved 8%, and that's what it took. But I'm not saying the reaction wasn't warranted - that percentage difference may be what's needed to fuel R&D and the B&O service programme.

Lee's got a very important point up above, the dealers represent an enormous, underutilized asset for B&O, and I get the feeling that Struer has never figured out how to really work WITH the dealers, instead of just delivering instructions to them. Anyone who's followed my posts will also know that I'm no B&O accolyte - there are products I love, and there are products that have me go "why did they do that?" In today's digital market there's no way that B&O can outdo the open-source fueled software development going on, constantly, around the world. As a hardware supplier the company has to deliver units that work with these possibilities, because clients are encountering what's possible in their other hardware. This is a nightmare, of course, if you're used to delivering the entire a/v experience chain to your customers.

The company's far from done for, though, - and as someone wrote above this may be the required wake-up call needed to get management to look at their opportunities with new eyes. Too much has been staked on delivering to the ostentatious/superficial luxury 50+ segment, creating a downwards disconnect to the important younger and aspirational markets, that have been "forced" to look elsewhere.

I will never, for the life of me, understand why BV8 doesn't have the B&O signature curtain, why it doesn't have surround processing, or why the BeoSound 4 doesn't read DVDs -- imagine BV8 together with the BeoSound 4 and BeoLab 3s, as a film and music entertainment combo for young influentials looking for outstanding design and function. And given 355f's comments as to the production cost for the BV8, it could even be more attractively priced to attract and recruit young buyers - instead of flumming about with "casual TV" and "second room television" for the luxury segment mentioned above.

And what about the SD-card? Does B&O believe in it, or not? If yes, then why isn't there a port for it in the Serenata and BeoSound 6? Or in the BV8?
What I miss the most is a strong true-line in the product line-up, similar to what attracted me to the brand in the first place, in the 80s. Too many products in today's line-up are not clearly of a family.
B&O needs to focus on what it's best at, and also accept that there are other areas where it simply has to let go. When Ballegaard Sørensen mentions that B&O were first with the iPod wheel and with an iTunes-like interface, then he's also indicating that B&O wasn't able to capitalize on those innovations - the company didn't see what they could become relative to the mass market.
Apple did - and Apple in music today is as much of a standard as CDs became relative to vinyl. Trying to reinvent iPod/iTunes functionality is a lost battle, work with it instead.

Puncher's point about audio products is also spot on, but then B&O has to do more to build audio credibility again. Consistently. They have the loudspeakers and the players - but there are some gaps that need to be filled in order to reclaim audiophile credibility, but that requires focus.

Well, I remain a B&O fan - but I'm also very pleased with my Apple products -- and together they are unbeatable. Why anyone wants to subject him - or herself to the labyrinthine interactivity quandaries of Windows is a mystery to me. And to the younger generation that B&O is wholly dependent upon for future brand growth and recruitment, it's not a mystery - the iPod, iPhone, iTunes, QuickTime products are directing their choices. Take it or leave it.

soundproof:

The world stock markets are doing a high-wire balancing act these days, without a net. Any kind of negative news are pushing shares down -- and the decline in retail sales this December must have been decisive for B&O. They had projected a 15% growth and achieved 8%, and that's what it took. But I'm not saying the reaction wasn't warranted - that percentage difference may be what's needed to fuel R&D and the B&O service programme.

Lee's got a very important point up above, the dealers represent an enormous, underutilized asset for B&O, and I get the feeling that Struer has never figured out how to really work WITH the dealers, instead of just delivering instructions to them. Anyone who's followed my posts will also know that I'm no B&O accolyte - there are products I love, and there are products that have me go "why did they do that?" In today's digital market there's no way that B&O can outdo the open-source fueled software development going on, constantly, around the world. As a hardware supplier the company has to deliver units that work with these possibilities, because clients are encountering what's possible in their other hardware. This is a nightmare, of course, if you're used to delivering the entire a/v experience chain to your customers.

The company's far from done for, though, - and as someone wrote above this may be the required wake-up call needed to get management to look at their opportunities with new eyes. Too much has been staked on delivering to the ostentatious/superficial luxury 50+ segment, creating a downwards disconnect to the important younger and aspirational markets, that have been "forced" to look elsewhere.

I will never, for the life of me, understand why BV8 doesn't have the B&O signature curtain, why it doesn't have surround processing, why the BeoSound 4 doesn't read DVDs -- imagine BV8 together with the BeoSound 4 and BeoLab 3s, as a film and music entertainment combo for young influentials looking for outstanding design and function. And given 355f's comments as to the production cost for the BV8, it could even be more attractively priced to attract and recruit young buyers - instead of flumming about with "casual TV" and "second room television" for the luxury segment mentioned above.

And what about the SD-card? Does B&O believe in it, or not? If yes, then why isn't there a port for it in the Serenata and BeoSound 6? Or in the BV8?
What I miss the most is a strong true-line in the product line-up, similar to what attracted me to the brand in the first place, in the 80s. Too many products in today's line-up are not clearly of a family.
B&O needs to focus on what it's best at, and also accept that there are other areas where it simply has to let go. When Ballegaard Sørensen mentions that B&O were first with the iPod wheel and with an iTunes-like interface, then he's also indicating that B&O wasn't able to capitalize on those innovations - the company didn't see what they could become relative to the mass market.
Apple did - and Apple in music today is as much of a standard as CDs became relative to vinyl. Trying to reinvent iPod/iTunes functionality is a lost battle, work with it instead.

Puncher's point about audio products is also spot on, but then B&O has to do more to build audio credibility again. Consistently. They have the loudspeakers and the players - but there are some gaps that need to be filled in order to reclaim audiophile credibility, but that requires focus.

Well, I remain a B&O fan - but I'm also very pleased with my Apple products -- and together they are unbeatable. Why anyone wants to subject him - or herself to the labyrinthine interactivity quandaries of Windows is a mystery to me. And to the younger generation that B&O is wholly dependent upon for future brand growth and recruitment, it's not a mystery - the iPod, iPhone, iTunes, QuickTime products are directing their choices. Take it or leave it.

I strongly agree with everything said in this box. Some great concepts suggested above too, lets just hope things are rectified and some consistency is re-established in the product range. I have too often been scratching my head at how complicated and irrationally overpriced some things are from B&O and the past 7 years.

Regarding audio credibility, why did they bring out the BL4?
 

Have they been getting greedy? It kinda looks like it

they also have to embrace blu ray , digital tv and the internet

who on earth is going to spend £15k on a bv9 and then have to add a source ?

 ludicrous

 bno have basically priced themselves out of the market as well as diversifying into things like mobile phones that a tiny company like them has no place in

i'm afraid they have ideas FAR above their station , they actually think they're competing with apple and sony , it's actually pretty laughable

moxxey:

355f:

well thats the point- yes it has scart but if the bs3 does the upscaling one does not need hdmi to connect the bs2.

But the signal will deteriorate via SCART, before the BS3 gets the change to upscale effectively. Have you ever seen the difference with Sky HD through SCART compared to HDMI or components? Even Sky SD through HDMI is far superior to the picture quality via SCART.

Shrug. It still seems like a compromise to me on a very expensive DVD player.

Chris

I cant believe im defending the BC2 here!!  anyway, yes I have seen the difference in the lab between HDMI and scart and its better because it was engineered that way and the sky box in particular( which is made by thomson) has been subject to a good deal of manipulation of SD capabilities! and as part of the hdmi machine thomson have directed its capabilities in that area.

As an experiment, connect a non HD sky box via SCART you will find the results better than the HD box( in SD mode) via HDMI- That bot of manipulation was done for a reason!

In the case of the BC2 the results are as good as any I have seen connected to BS3. This includes the latest pioneer upscaling dvd connected via HDMI. The BC2 result was as good if not better. It depends on so many additional factors but the marketing guys have been hard at work and now if something doesnt have HDMI its no good has worked wonders for the audio video manufacturers.

An ommision on such an expensive player yes, but why engineer and re tool it if the results dont outweith the huge invetment required to do that? I would prefer that the resources go to reducing the price of flat panels, getting a better partner than Samsung- whos quality control and products are amoungst the worst in the industry and bringing back the true audio enthusiasts that used to sell the products instaed of shapp suited stuck up sales guys that know bugger all about B&O or audio come to that!

Puncher:

355f:

moxxey:

355f:

The beocentre 2 doesnt need to upscale as the BS3 in bv4/9 does that in a better way than an inbuilt scaler. A scaling chip costs $4 so im sure bno would have put this in if it influenced the results that much.

It might not need to upscale, but it doesn't have HDMI-out, either. As far as I know, you have to connect via SCART?

Also, don't forget I have a BS3 in my BV7-40 and I wouldn't say it does a good job upscaling SD DVDs. It does a resonable job, but they look 80% of their original form. Almost like a very good copy. I showed my BV7-40 to someone yesterday and the first thing he said is that the upscaled Bourne Ultimatum looked like a copy!

Chris.

 

well thats the point- yes it has scart but if the bs3 does the upscaling one does not need hdmi to connect the bs2.

Secondly, the BV7 mk11 has a bs3 BASED design the processing in the BS3 matches the processing of a lumagen processor I used with a pinoeer screen- so its very good!. On SD material with a BV4 its excellent and with dvd - to be honest ive not seen anything better. As stated before its more connected with the limitations of lcd than a shortfall in processing .

This is crazy - how can a supposed top end system read a DVD, convert it to an analogue signal and then transfer it to a processing unit that redigitises the signal in order to upscale before passing on to the display panel!

The upscaler should be working with the digital data lifted from the DVD in order to preserve the source signal quality i.e. digital transmission between the BS2 and BS3! At these prices there is no excuse!

 

There are many cases, Pioneer in particular where its better to cut off the upscaling from the DVD and allow the panel to do the work as the Pioneer [processor is a very good one!

I've got to support 355f on the scart/HDMI issue here. Once again: HDMI is created solely to let the owners of content control the use of that content, and a lot of spurious arguments have been made to make people abandon the connective methods that do not allow such control. The sooner they can get people to drop SCART, the sooner they establish control through HDMI.

The lure of the higher resolution image and audio was supposed to ensure this transition - and notice that it is the content providers (the studios, etc.) who are now deciding the HD-Battle, not the consumers. The providers want their key, in order to be able to lock the content. That's HDMI and BluRay, from now on. 

look at the current range

the bv8 is £3k and doesn't have dvb-t as standard , in fact no bno tv does !!!

CRAZY !

so you have to add another box - that takes up a scart / hdmi - and we know how few there are on bno tv's and then hide the box and have codes for the beo 4/5 remotes - the whole things a cludge , not what i would call sophisticated 21st century living..

look at the beocenter 6 - you can have a radio OR digital tv but not both .. good lord , that's utterly mad ! 

then there's the mobile phones £1k and they actually think they can take on the iphone or the top nokias - hahah - too funny , not with a samsung label stuck on the top , mate ! 

then the speakers for your pc / mac , except they cost about 3 times more than any pc or mac !

and finally stupid pieces of total rubbish like the truly awful beosound 3 & 6 , that look they were designed by stevie wonder

the beosound 3 is the biggest joke - no dab on a £500 portable radio . wtf are bno smoking in denmark ?? wacky baccy ??

they can dress up their stuff as much as they like but as long as they're 5 years behind the mainstream - and they most certainly are - they have NO chance , particularly at the ridiculous prices they charge

 goodbye bno , it was nice knowing you :( 

 

Flappo The Grate:

look at the current range

the bv8 is £3k and doesn't have dvb-t as standard , in fact no bno tv does !!!

CRAZY !

so you have to add another box - that takes up a scart / hdmi - and we know how few there are on bno tv's and then hide the box and have codes for the beo 4/5 remotes - the whole things a cludge , not what i would call sophisticated 21st century living..

look at the beocenter 6 - you can have a radio OR digital tv but not both .. good lord , that's utterly mad ! 

then there's the mobile phones £1k and they actually think they can take on the iphone or the top nokias - hahah - too funny , not with a samsung label stuck on the top , mate ! 

then the speakers for your pc / mac , except they cost about 3 times more than any pc or mac !

and finally stupid pieces of total rubbish like the truly awful beosound 3 & 6 , that look they were designed by stevie wonder

the beosound 3 is the biggest joke - no dab on a £500 portable radio . wtf are bno smoking in denmark ?? wacky baccy ??

they can dress up their stuff as much as they like but as long as they're 5 years behind the mainstream - and they most certainly are - they have NO chance , particularly at the ridiculous prices they charge

 goodbye bno , it was nice knowing you :( 

 

 

I think you have gone way over the top here!!

I agree with some of your points but what about the good products. Lab 3, 9, 5 BS3, BV9 believe me the technology in BS3 is NOT six years behind!!

You must bear in Mind that BnO have a significant phones business - so i think a mobile of sorts was a natural step.

The issue to me is one can justify the price IF the product performs better than anything else, but alas in many cases this is not so

Flappo mappo, dude what are u smoking ???? I doubt that a new CEO can change something. But I believe that a single person can make a huge change ,like genius Jonathan Ive or like Steve Jobs. One person must show the direction where to go. Bno dont have any direction at the moment. And they need some true creatives which make the new direction feasible for us.

so you think a company that produces televisions without digital tv built in is up to the minute ?

especially such expensive ones with such limited connections - unless you spend £8k on a bv7/40 of course - or is it £9k ?

for the prices they charge bno gear should be 100% cutting edge , forget the fancy designs and the way diamonds cut the metal round the screen and all that twaddle

concentrate on making advanced equipment

all bno tv's should have a minimum of 3 hdmi's , 3 scarts , freeview built in and a  blu ray player built in

especially at £8k for a 40 inch lcd ...