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Untitled Page
ARCHIVED FORUM -- April 2007 to March 2012 READ ONLY FORUM
This is the first Archived Forum which was active between 17th April 2007 and
1st March February 2012
Latest post 02-09-2009 3:48 PM by Puncher. 43 replies.
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02-08-2009 11:04 AM
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mfirst
- Joined on 04-21-2007
- Posts 155
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Why most "modern digital" music sounds artificial
ok - so I couldnt use the various 4 letter adjectives.....
http://i.gizmodo.com/5148867/the-secret-of-auto+tune-kanye-and-t+pain-are-not-good-singers
gee, what a surprise.
Listening now to an old soundboard (I think) recording of a live springsteen show from 1978 - Cleveland Agora.
Thought by many (I think I even saw a Max Weinberg quote) saying it was their best live show - ever.
Raw, pure live music - you can close your eyes and feel the energy!
-michael
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mfirst
- Joined on 04-21-2007
- Posts 155
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Re: Why most "modern digital" music sounds artificial
He is a fabulous performer (did you see him at The Super Bowl) - seeing him live is a religious event. Some of his songs (admit not all) are poetry for the ages that make your spine tingle when you listen to the lyrics. He is muse and his stories bring a smile to your face reflecting on the joys and ironies of life...... maybe a little overboard, but probably not by much.
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Puncher
- Joined on 03-27-2007
- Nr. Durham, NE England.
- Posts 9,588
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Re: Why most "modern digital" music sounds artificial
mfirst:
He is a fabulous performer (did you see him at The Super Bowl) - seeing him live is a religious event. Some of his songs (admit not all) are poetry for the ages that make your spine tingle when you listen to the lyrics. He is muse and his stories bring a smile to your face reflecting on the joys and ironies of life...... maybe a little overboard, but probably not by much.
I guess this is how different religions started - I'll not knock him as you are obviously a fan, let's just say I would rather fix pickled onions to my eyeballs with cocktail sticks than have to see him live
Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.
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j0hnbarker
- Joined on 04-16-2007
- LS28/GB
- Posts 2,002
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Re: Why most "modern digital" music sounds artificial
Puncher:
I guess this is how different religions started - I'll not knock him as you are obviously a fan, let's just say I would rather fix pickled onions to my eyeballs with cocktail sticks than have to see him live
Agreed!
President, Beomaster 8000 Appreciation Society
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mfirst
- Joined on 04-21-2007
- Posts 155
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Re: Why most "modern digital" music sounds artificial
To each they own - his music, for many reasons, strikes a cord with me - but I can clearly understand how many people do not like him (his politics, his style, his songs, etc).
anyone listening to anything interesting these days?
-michael
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Alex
- Joined on 04-16-2007
- Bath & Cardiff, UK
- Posts 2,990
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Re: Why most "modern digital" music sounds artificial
Going back to the original topic of AutoTune - anybody ever been unfortunate to have listened to Michael Bubble? Probably the most fake, artificial and autotuned recordings I've ever heard.
Weekly top artists:
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bayerische
- Joined on 12-11-2007
- Helsinki, Finland
- Posts 3,593
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Re: Why most "modern digital" music sounds artificial
I like Springsteens music, and I've seen him live once, but that was a load of rubbish...
Supposedly it was a far better concert last time he was here. But the first time made me convinced not to see him again.
-Andreas
BLab5, BLab5000, BLab8000, BV10, BS9000, BS3, Beo5, Beo4, BLink1000, BLink5000, BLink7000, A2, A8, Form2
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casdave
- Joined on 04-16-2007
- Posts 226
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Re: Why most "modern digital" music sounds artificial
You are seriously underestimating the amount of interferance in vocal music from electronic 'aids'.
Just like guitar pedals, there are many many differant effects, and they have been in use for a long time, from the echo in a large hall or even just in a subway, right through to harmonisers, chorus and pitch shifters such as the one mentioned in the article.
In addition, have you ever wondered about that harsh 'sizzle' that seems to go on in the background of many boyband ballads?
That's due to a technique of running two systems, one is the 'clean' unaltered vocals, the other gets severely overdriven, this is then mixed at a low level into the original clean vocals - it makes sibilances sound sharp edged, you notice particularly when the singer draws breath (far too frequently for my taste, I'd wish they stopped and died)
Some vocalists 'sing' only one note in the studio, and the tune is actually played by a guy on a synthesiser. The only way I can describe the effect is that of colouring an outline in a picture, the eye fills the space with the colour even though it was not applied right to the outlines, a similar thing happens with sound, although the singers voice and the note don't really fit together, the brain sort of fills them up together.
I used to repair a lot of music electronics, and it beomes second nature to pick out the sounds, things have moved on a long way
They will take a voice of a well known performer who has aged, and stitch their younger sound into any new recordings they make, I'll not mention any names here, but think of a few 'superstars who have been around a long while. They will make new recordings that are only slightly lower in pitch but they will not sound too far distant from their earlier days; and then compare these to any recent live performances.
You will note that they lack the power, and will not be able to hold the note endurance is gone, and the voice will waver.
What has happened is that their earlier voice has been sampled, the harmonics can be extracted (if you want you could call it the 'essence' of their voice')and used to 'support' the older voice.
The electronics have beome so good that it can now be done onstage instead of just in the studio.
The give away is the dynamics of the voice, it will not have the quick momentary changes in tone and volume, it'll sound to smooth and blancmange like - you remember how those early drum machines sounded compared to the real thing? similar effect here.
The whole of the house and hip-hop industry is based on computer based sound editing, not a single original idea between the lot of them - I wouldn't pay any of 'em out in brass buttons - the lot of 'em and its why I particularly dislike these music forms. Wonder why I'm not at all keen on Dido either, and some others - the list of those who abuse technology in the chart music industry far outweighs those who don't.
Its got so bad that even if the artist is capable, the producers take great care not to let it show.
...and don't get me started on compression, mid range cuts and 'music' made for MP3 and IPODS.
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mfirst
- Joined on 04-21-2007
- Posts 155
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Re: Why most "modern digital" music sounds artificial
now I wonder why CDs have not gotten any cheaper over the past 25 years. I knew there was a reason I dont like or listen to much new stuff these days. This begs the record vs CD question - is it the medium or what has been done to the music. Do records converted to digital (format and compression of choice) without all of the processing nonsense sound different to you purists?
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R Patton
- Joined on 04-16-2007
- Kansas
- Posts 162
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Re: Why most "modern digital" music sounds artificial
Mfirst,
You are right about Springsteen and his live sound. The mix is Superb, I have heard very few live concerets that sound as well as his. Electronic digital music is fake sounding because it is fake, no musical instuments required. It becomes very painful to listen to for extended periods of time.
On the Beoworld forum, many lean toward the techno electronic as their music choice. Just take a look at what the Springsteen critics on this thread are listening too in the "playing right now" forum. It's all a matter of taste, but if I had to listen to a lot of they listen too then "fixing pickled onions to my eyeballs with cocktail sticks" would not begin to absorbe the pain to my ears.
The Boss Lives!
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bayerische
- Joined on 12-11-2007
- Helsinki, Finland
- Posts 3,593
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Re: Why most "modern digital" music sounds artificial
R Patton:
Mfirst,
You are right about Springsteen and his live sound. The mix is Superb, I have heard very few live concerets that sound as well as his. Electronic digital music is fake sounding because it is fake, no musical instuments required. It becomes very painful to listen to for extended periods of time.
On the Beoworld forum, many lean toward the techno electronic as their music choice. Just take a look at what the Springsteen critics on this thread are listening too in the "playing right now" forum. It's all a matter of taste, but if I had to listen to a lot of they listen too then "fixing pickled onions to my eyeballs with cocktail sticks" would not begin to absorbe the pain to my ears.
The Boss Lives!
I for one have never listened to "electronic" music. And I'm a regular poster in the "what's playing now". OK, "Devo" is somewhat of a exception, but they're simply STUNNING!
-Andreas
BLab5, BLab5000, BLab8000, BV10, BS9000, BS3, Beo5, Beo4, BLink1000, BLink5000, BLink7000, A2, A8, Form2
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Alex
- Joined on 04-16-2007
- Bath & Cardiff, UK
- Posts 2,990
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Re: Why most "modern digital" music sounds artificial
I don't quite think you can go that far. I'm not really a fan of Bruce Springsteen, and I've worked on some of his songs live (and admit I've hated them each time after a few plays through). Yes I do listen to a lot of electronic music, but I actually listen to everything.
Weekly top artists:
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R Patton
- Joined on 04-16-2007
- Kansas
- Posts 162
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Re: Why most "modern digital" music sounds artificial
bayerische,
DeVO is an exception and definately an original! I'll take original over digitally manufactured remixed/oversampled sound anyday. I look at the playing right now forum to hear something I may not be aware of, most of what I hear is not my taste, but thats ok, because every now and then something stikes me as interesting.
Each of us has a different taste is music and lyrics and songs have a special meaning to each of us and represents a photograph or specific memory in our life, it's just harsh for some to describe they would rather stick something in to ones eyeballs than listen to ?????????.
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Puncher
- Joined on 03-27-2007
- Nr. Durham, NE England.
- Posts 9,588
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Re: Why most "modern digital" music sounds artificial
R Patton:
bayerische,
DeVO is an exception and definately an original! I'll take original over digitally manufactured remixed/oversampled sound anyday. I look at the playing right now forum to hear something I may not be aware of, most of what I hear is not my taste, but thats ok, because every now and then something stikes me as interesting.
Each of us has a different taste is music and lyrics and songs have a special meaning to each of us and represents a photograph or specific memory in our life, it's just harsh for some to describe they would rather stick something in to ones eyeballs than listen to ?????????.
Not harsh at all, like you say everyone has a different taste and I realy dislike Mr. Springsteen and I will actively avoid listening to him (if he comes on the radio I immediately switch channels). It's not just him either I do the same with Queen - it's not a dig at your or mfirst's choices, if you prefer you can think of it as what I'm missing out on.
Neil Young however is a different kettle of fish!
Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.
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R Patton
- Joined on 04-16-2007
- Kansas
- Posts 162
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Re: Why most "modern digital" music sounds artificial
Puncher,
Springsteen is not my favorite performer by a long shot, but I did have a great time at his concerts and what I remember most was how great the e-street band sounded as a whole, bass, piano, drums, sax all of iteverything sounded like it was supposed to, including Bruce's terrible singing voice.
I'm the same as you when listening to the radio, but usually it's Bob Dylan that has me reaching for the tuner knob, I never could get into Bob.
I rather like Neil Young and his various bands, although he is another lacking in vocal capabilities. So is Neil not one of your favorites? Being from Kansas, I may not have understood the kettle of fish reference.
Most of my tastes are likely due to my age, which needless to say is not the hip-hop-techno-dance era.
Roger
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Puncher
- Joined on 03-27-2007
- Nr. Durham, NE England.
- Posts 9,588
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Re: Why most "modern digital" music sounds artificial
R Patton:
Puncher,
Springsteen is not my favorite performer by a long shot, but I did have a great time at his concerts and what I remember most was how great the e-street band sounded as a whole, bass, piano, drums, sax all of iteverything sounded like it was supposed to, including Bruce's terrible singing voice.
I'm the same as you when listening to the radio, but usually it's Bob Dylan that has me reaching for the tuner knob, I never could get into Bob.
I rather like Neil Young and his various bands, although he is another lacking in vocal capabilities. So is Neil not one of your favorites? Being from Kansas, I may not have understood the kettle of fish reference.
Most of my tastes are likely due to my age, which needless to say is not the hip-hop-techno-dance era.
Roger,
There you go, we agree after all - Bruce has a terrible singing voice and we both like Neil Young (different kettle of fish = different ballgame)
Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.
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soundproof
- Joined on 04-16-2007
- Posts 2,340
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Re: Why most "modern digital" music sounds artificial
For an absolute master session in adjusted vocals, horrible compression and indistinct, sampled instrumentation, go for Gnarls Barkley's latest - incredibly enough listed as a "must have" by someone who is deaf at Time magazine.
And while Lily Allen had fun beats, her debut album suffered from the same problems. I can't listen to music like that.
As to Springsteen. Not a fan, but this was really good as far as live-sounding recordings go.
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j0hnbarker
- Joined on 04-16-2007
- LS28/GB
- Posts 2,002
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Re: Why most "modern digital" music sounds artificial
Puncher:
It's not just him either I do the same with Queen
Neil Young however is a different kettle of fish!
Puncher - I'm with you all the way. I cannot stand Queen, from the overblown guitar playing to Freddie Mercury's nausea-inducing vocals and general mincing around, my eyeballs start to bleed whenever I hear one of their pompous and overrated songs strike up. Neil Young, on the other hand, is an absolute genius. I was listening to 'Don't let it Bring you Down' from After the Gold Rush last night, and if that's not one of the top 100 songs ever recorded, I don't know what is!
Interesting that one time Crazy Horser Nils Lofgren was/is in the E-Street band though....
President, Beomaster 8000 Appreciation Society
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Friedmett
- Joined on 04-28-2007
- Herning, Denmark
- Posts 840
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Re: Why most "modern digital" music sounds artificial
I'm not a Sprinsteen fan either.
What I dislike about most music today is the fact that very few can actually play an instrument with flavor to it.
Then most of it sounds like effects on everything and synth like witch the backing track usally is 9 out of 10 times.
Songwriting is less interesting. Barbygirl anyone? Boybands?
I grew up with the sound of guitars, drums and the like. It was not untill I discovered Metallica and the like how cool a guitar can sound. Then later it got to Jimi Hendrix and the basic understanding of why Classic rock matters these days.
Rap sounded great with Run DMC but it quickly went down to the watered down gangster crap copied all ower the world.
The digital world get's better and better exept the best music has been done decades ago.
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R Patton
- Joined on 04-16-2007
- Kansas
- Posts 162
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Re: Why most "modern digital" music sounds artificial
"What I dislike about most music today is the fact that very few can actually play an instrument with flavor to it."
Your statement is so very true! The same instrument can sound so different in each person hand. Came across a local man from Kansas named Andy McKee, simple acoustic guitar played like no one else I have heard, seach youtube "Andy Mckee Drifting" to see someone playing an instrument with flavor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ddn4MGaS3N4
Roger
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bayerische
- Joined on 12-11-2007
- Helsinki, Finland
- Posts 3,593
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Re: Why most "modern digital" music sounds artificial
Yes Puncher, Neil Young is excellent!
Queens is mostly rubbish, but they have a couple of keepers. Bohemian Rhapsody, Under pressure (with David Bowie) and Fat Bottom girls.
-Andreas
BLab5, BLab5000, BLab8000, BV10, BS9000, BS3, Beo5, Beo4, BLink1000, BLink5000, BLink7000, A2, A8, Form2
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bayerische
- Joined on 12-11-2007
- Helsinki, Finland
- Posts 3,593
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Re: Why most "modern digital" music sounds artificial
R Patton:
"What I dislike about most music today is the fact that very few can actually play an instrument with flavor to it."
Your statement is so very true! The same instrutment can sound so different in each person hand. Came across a local man from Kansas named Andy McKee, simple acoustic guitar played like no one else I have heard, seach youtube "Andy Mckee Drifting" to see someone playing an instrument with flavor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ddn4MGaS3N4
Roger
Roger, if you like Guitar playing check out Tommy Emmanuel at Youtube.
-Andreas
BLab5, BLab5000, BLab8000, BV10, BS9000, BS3, Beo5, Beo4, BLink1000, BLink5000, BLink7000, A2, A8, Form2
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bayerische
- Joined on 12-11-2007
- Helsinki, Finland
- Posts 3,593
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Re: Why most "modern digital" music sounds artificial
-Andreas
BLab5, BLab5000, BLab8000, BV10, BS9000, BS3, Beo5, Beo4, BLink1000, BLink5000, BLink7000, A2, A8, Form2
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R Patton
- Joined on 04-16-2007
- Kansas
- Posts 162
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Re: Why most "modern digital" music sounds artificial
bayerische,
Thank you for the link. So nice to Hear and See musicians at their craft.
While, button pushing (digital techno/electronic beats) can make some interesting/different music, it's the true musicians that will always amaze me.
Roger
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