Interesting views on the current state of LEGO and B&O and where they might be moving.........[link]

Graham

Thanks for the post !

I think he makes a good point about having entry level products.

The Beosound 2 could have been if they were prepared to loss-lead.

The BeoLab 4's were a good idea - but could have been made easier to use from a cable perspective.

I think the coloured A8s are a good move - we now have 3 in this household !

elephant:

Thanks for the post !

I think he makes a good point about having entry level products.

The Beosound 2 could have been if they were prepared to loss-lead.

The BeoLab 4's were a good idea - but could have been made easier to use from a cable perspective.

I think the coloured A8s are a good move - we now have 3 in this household !

Good point about the A8's elephant. I wonder whether all those counterfeit A8's available on eBay ultimately work in B&O's favour in some way???? (Depends on whether they are actually any good!)

I'm not sure you can call earphones "entry-level products"...

What would be needed (IMO) are entry level speakers, audio players and TV's. What could entry level Beo cost? Perhaps twice or three times the competition?

in the old days , bno used to make affordable entry level stuff that got you into the whole bno 'thing'

now you have to be loaded to even start on the ladder

bno need to bring out an affordable quality range of gear

maybe they will ?

Well I was thinking along the lines of one of the replies to that article, where a poster pointed out that people learned how good & simple Apple was buy using an iPod and iTunes ... and having gained that comfort, the user was then prepared to consider a Mac when they next had to make a major PC decision.

Hence my suggestion of trying to capture the iPod/iPhone market with earphones and headsets and docking stations with speakers.  

Think how an iPod enabled BeoSound 3 might have been received by Apple fans.  Same for a Beosound 1.

I think the multicoloured earphones appeal to Apple users - I see more and more A8s on the streets these days.  I hope that their users will then embrace the quality of a B&O speaker.

I think the entry level "trojan horse" needs to be carefully chosen ... not every category needs to have such a product ... I suspect we all started with audio then added the visual component and then linked our rooms.

bayerische:

I'm not sure you can call earphones "entry-level products"...

What would be needed (IMO) are entry level speakers, audio players and TV's. What could entry level Beo cost? Perhaps twice or three times the competition?

Andreas

This is OT, but do you have an Omega Flightmaster? I noticed your Avatar had changed from the Speedmaster. I used to have the Cal .911 that you have as your Avatar, with the yellow and blue hands. I swapped it for a 1970s Breitling trans-ocean, as I couldn't get the Flightmaster to fit under shirt cuffs at work, but I sometimes wish I still had it now.

Hi John,

Yes I have a Flightmaster. Cal 911. Yellow chrono hands. What a great watch. Also have a Speedmaster. I bought mine from the UK, maybe it's your old one?

elephant:

Well I was thinking along the lines of one of the replies to that article, where a poster pointed out that people learned how good & simple Apple was buy using an iPod and iTunes ... and having gained that comfort, the user was then prepared to consider a Mac when they next had to make a major PC decision.

Hence my suggestion of trying to capture the iPod/iPhone market with earphones and headsets and docking stations with speakers.  

Think how an iPod enabled BeoSound 3 might have been received by Apple fans.  Same for a Beosound 1.

I think the multicoloured earphones appeal to Apple users - I see more and more A8s on the streets these days.  I hope that their users will then embrace the quality of a B&O speaker.

I think the entry level "trojan horse" needs to be carefully chosen ... not every category needs to have such a product ... I suspect we all started with audio then added the visual component and then linked our rooms.

Totally agree. There is a huge potential for B&O with some entry-market stuff.
And I second the fact that you see more A8's around than ever before. Love the coloured ones as well.

A nice small and very simple but well designed beosound, no cd but with FM radio and N-music and N-radio, limited connectivity but with power or masterlink so it can be extended with B&O gear) ; build-in ipod dock and a small matching pair of quality B&O speakers (not built-in so you can upgrade to other, more powerful labs later on if you want) all at a 'realistic' price would open many doors.

Hec.. even I would buy a couple of those without thinking twice.

bayerische:

Hi John,

 

Yes I have a Flightmaster. Cal 911. Yellow chrono hands. What a great watch. Also have a Speedmaster. I bought mine from the UK, maybe it's your old one?

Maybe Andreas...when I sold it on eBay though it went to Italy, so I suspect you have a different one! They have appreciated in value considerably since I sold mine in 2005 - not sure I could afford one now :)

j0hnbarker:

bayerische:

Hi John,

 

Yes I have a Flightmaster. Cal 911. Yellow chrono hands. What a great watch. Also have a Speedmaster. I bought mine from the UK, maybe it's your old one?

Maybe Andreas...when I sold it on eBay though it went to Italy, so I suspect you have a different one! They have appreciated in value considerably since I sold mine in 2005 - not sure I could afford one now :)

 

Yes the prices are all over the place. I think I'll keep mine forever! 

1. MP3-player that was iTunes compatible in both PC/Mac.
With a B&O sound level DAC-chip and with excellent headset.

2. BeoSound 4 with the ability to play both CDs and DVDs - easily connected to a BeoVision 8 - with a total package including BL3 speakers for front surrounds and BL4s for rear.

3. An iPod dock player - such as BeoSound 3 - but with the features of the Audio Pro Porto - comes with a remote control, two line-IN connections, radio and iPod player. Can be connected to a sub-woofer:

4. B&O embracing the PC and video gaming culture - with the dealers offering "out of this world" gaming experiences in the otherwise quite boring BeoLiving rooms.

5. A B&O Exclusives download service for music.

All of this was suggested to B&O in 2005 - as well as a number of other ideas designed to recruit younger consumers. All were ignored for a mystifying set of complex reasons that chiefly were summed up in the article linked by the threadstarter:

"... also almost stupidly resistant towards any kind of change."

>>with the dealers offering "out of this world" gaming experiences in the otherwise quite boring BeoLiving rooms.<<

No no no no. That article sounds for me a bit like back to Torben. 

Look at the pictures and comments in the referenced Kanye West blog. People want B&O cause it is a luxury item and it looks incredible in the rooms in those pictures. For me it's a design driven brand and you don't have to own it in young years to be attached to it. You just have to want it in young years. Many drool over Aston Martin, Lamborghini, Ferrari even though nearly no one can afford one in young years they still find their buyers later. Porsche is interesting, similar but lesser effect which may be because they provide some sort of lower entry point.

I think with BV8 and BV10 they are on the right track to be honest. I also hope they don't give up on BS5 and that they recognize the importance of regular software improvements.

I agree with Flappo that B&O need to think hard about entry level products. I guess the BV8 is in that line, although in my opinion the finish is not quite high enough to carry the B&O logo. But it is a step in the right direction. B&O need some real AV equipment that will get people to take that important first step into the brand.

My first B&O item was a Beocenter 2200. Most on this site would not now consider this real B&O (repackaged Japanese music system). It had no link capability and no remote control and the performance was certainly not hifi. But it compared reasonably with similar products from other makers in terms of performance. It cost nearly four times as much but the finish was good - brushed aluminimum, etc.

Anyway, it got me into the brand. And into the mind set of paying a lot of money for an outstanding design and cabinet finish.

Its asking a lot to expect people to leap in at the £10,000 mark for a TV when they can get the same specs for £1,000 or less. But so much of the pleasure of owning a B&O product cannot be captured in the spec sheet.

soundproof:

4. B&O embracing the PC and video gaming culture - with the dealers offering "out of this world" gaming experiences in the otherwise quite boring BeoLiving rooms.

Ewww....

5. A B&O Exclusives download service for music.

What was the point in that, when most of the other suggestions seemed to just back up iTunes? To me, it would seem that B&O has plenty of stuff to do already without getting involved with the record companies and copyright debates...

I don't think that every random idea is proved great just because B&O didn't take up on it

soundproof:

1. MP3-player that was iTunes compatible in both PC/Mac.
With a B&O sound level DAC-chip and with excellent headset.
Don't even go there.... technology is just moving too fast (just like cell phones) leave it to others but make a good dock (with a B&O DAC) instead.
I think B&O is on the right track with that one, dropping the MP3 players and making a BS5 light/dock.

2. BeoSound 4 with the ability to play both CDs and DVDs - easily connected to a BeoVision 8 - with a total package including BL3 speakers for front surrounds and BL4s for rear. 
A beosound 4 playing cd and dvd's..... isn't that a beocenter2 then ? 

3. An iPod dock player - such as BeoSound 3 - but with the features of the Audio Pro Porto - comes with a remote control, two line-IN connections, radio and iPod player. Can be connected to a sub-woofer:
Great idea for a new portable beolit kind of thing though, but make sure it's stereo this time, not mono like the BS3. 

 

4. B&O embracing the PC and video gaming culture - with the dealers offering "out of this world" gaming experiences in the otherwise quite boring BeoLiving rooms. 
Holy smokes ......absolutely NOT!!!! you can always add beolab speakers to any pc or  home theater/games console system if you reaaaaaly feel the need for this. But I agree the beoliving rooms could have an xbox or ps3 as part of the demo environment.

5. A B&O Exclusives download service for music.
Why stressing for itunes compatibility if providing your own download service.... not going to work as too many legal issues will prevent this. 

I am glad most of these things never got realized.......

 

All of this was suggested to B&O in 2005 - as well as a number of other ideas designed to recruit younger consumers. All were ignored for a mystifying set of complex reasons that chiefly were summed up in the article linked by the threadstarter:

"... also almost stupidly resistant towards any kind of change."

 

 

 

 

Well, 5 has proven extremely successful for B&W, which did pick up on it later. It's been a phenomenal recruitment tool, and that was the point.

http://www.bowers-wilkins.com/display.aspx?infid=777

And it's a question of time-frame - a brand has to decide what it wants to be, and then be that, in a way that consumers understand.
If you pick th SD-card as your medium, then implement that consecutively across your products, instead of leaping back and forth.

But chiefly, recognize that you're not going to be able to challenge what the dominant providers have created, and accommodate to that. I believe this was B&O's biggest problem - having to recognize that a company such as Apple was creating the de facto standard for audiovisual content. Companies that adapted to this have been successful - companies that fought it are struggling.

B&O's mp3-players have been embarrassing efforts - though I think that an SD-card enabled family of players would at least have made a point about music portability. You could have SD-slots in the car, in TVs, in audio systems, and in your portable players. But that didn't happen.

Brands have to make sense - when they do, they spend a lot less time explaining to customers what they can do for them.

And one may "eewww" the gaming culture as much as one wants, it's the largest player in audiovisual when it comes to turnover - bigger than the movie industry by factors ...

If B&O had created a total listening/watching/experience product, which would adapt to different modes of AV, that could have pulled customers.

But it's water under the bridge now - let's see what happens in the future.

1. MP3-player that was iTunes compatible in both PC/Mac.
With a B&O sound level DAC-chip and with excellent headset.
Don't even go there.... technology is just moving too fast (just like cell phones) leave it to others but make a good dock (with a B&O DAC) instead.
I think B&O is on the right track with that one, dropping the MP3 players and making a BS5 light/dock.

Agreed - don't go there now - but we are talking about the BeoSound 2, which was released without drivers for Mac's - because the "Mac community was of no relevance to B&O."

And what about the work that non-B&O people have been doing to keep B&O relevant to Apple-developments? How come B&O hasn't embraced their efforts years ago and given them the resources to gradually update the software?

As to your second comment - isn't that a BeoCenter 2, then?

No - we're talking about entry level products. The diskreader in the BeoSound 4 could easily be configured for DVD playback, but it isn't, precisely for fear of cannibalising BC2. But where does that leave people who are looking for an entry level player from B&O? At another store.

As to 3. Yes, or do what Audio Pro did - make it portable, with a unique stereo playback solution, and with the option to attach external speakers, if you wish.

soundproof:

1. MP3-player that was iTunes compatible in both PC/Mac.
With a B&O sound level DAC-chip and with excellent headset.
Don't even go there.... technology is just moving too fast (just like cell phones) leave it to others but make a good dock (with a B&O DAC) instead.
I think B&O is on the right track with that one, dropping the MP3 players and making a BS5 light/dock.

Agreed - don't go there now - but we are talking about the BeoSound 2, which was released without drivers for Mac's - because the "Mac community was of no relevance to B&O."

And what about the work that non-B&O people have been doing to keep B&O relevant to Apple-developments? How come B&O hasn't embraced their efforts years ago and given them the resources to gradually update the software?

 

As to your second comment - isn't that a BeoCenter 2, then?

No - we're talking about entry level products. The diskreader in the BeoSound 4 could easily be configured for DVD playback, but it isn't, precisely for fear of cannibalising BC2. But where does that leave people who are looking for an entry level player from B&O? At another store.

As to 3. Yes, or do what Audio Pro did - make it portable, with a unique stereo playback solution, and with the option to attach external speakers, if you wish.

 

B&O's lack of support for apple products (ipod, itunes and imac drivers) is indeed only one of the ways B&O has distanced itself from many of it's main clientele. Only thing they have to do is admit to that mistake and release the necessary updates. As we love our B&O products, all would be forgiven..... 

Apple has excellent customer service, returning all my calls with definite answers to all my questions, confirming my orders, notifying me of shipping and eta's, calling me 30 days later to ask me if I like their stuff and if their is anything they can do to help.
Just like B&O, apple products come at a premium, but the extra is so worth it...I even received a call last week from apple customer service to notify me my warranty will expire soon and if I wanted to upgrade that (I did).

Errrmmmm.... still waiting for my dealer to return a call (A week ago) for pricing on a cable ....says enough doesn't it. 

The fact that third party people now have to pick up from where they left off is just inexcusable in itself. Why not just give a 3rd party software company the rights and tools to write and maintain the software. And yes, we'll pay for it and for the updates if we have to......
We damn pay for any other upgrade anyways so why make an exception now ...? At least it would be up to date... 

I think upgrading the beosound4 to dvd is not the solution. And I fully agree with B&O on that one.
If you want fully integrated, go for the beocenter2 (which imo should be upgraded to blu ray and a (very simple) digital video player). 
B&O will not involve themselves with development of dvd/blu ray drives, so building them in will always be a compromise and fairly expensive.
It's just easier to provide stb controller for 3rd party ones. 

Still see a future for a stripped down, simple beosound system as I mentionned in an earlier reply. with a nice (but simple) display, a good solid design and bit of B&O interaction magic. Even paired with a pair of beolab4's. And all in one box for around 2000$.
It can be done for sure as I am not inventing the wheel here and would open B&O to lot of people. 
And off course they can charge full price for the remote, the cables , the wall bracket etc.... 

A new Beolit similar in concept to the B&W player is a great idea.  Apple technologies are evolving rapidly and thus would be difficult to adapt to B&O products other than the Aux port.

I do hope this happens for AppleTV which connects to any B&O tv HDMI port.

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/09/11/02/apple_pitches_30_a_month_itunes_tv_subscriptions_report.html