355f:

In the case of the BV7 we found , contrary to a few opinions that , yes it as a good product, yes it is better than the MK11 but probably by 15% and this was my original view. It did and does not represent a huge step forward which reading some reviews would lead one to believe.

I agree  with that. Hell, it's not even that much better than my current BV7-32. Perhaps 20% better? However, I need the extra HDMI sockets, would like the larger screen and it might last me a few years longer than my current BV7-32. For this reason, I'm upgrading to the BV7-40 MKIII and expecting delivery soon.

I agree with your comments about the UK. The last few times I've been in to my local dealer, there were a couple in their 50s or 60s who seemed to have around £10K to spend and wanted a TV and speakers - you couldn't imagine them walking in to Dixons or anywhere similar. They have a lot of disposable incoming - perhaps through housing - and they want what they think is the 'best' (quality product, service, support).

The snag with luxury items is that, as profits are so high, you only need to sell a small number compared to small-margin consumer technology. B&O might only need to sell 1 TV for every 5 that the local Sony dealer might need to shift.

My take on all of this...

I can only be honest and say that I thoroughly enjoy reading 355f's posts always. I am not threatened at all by what he writes but I think there are some members that are. It depends what kind of person you are and how sensitive you are. People get attached to their brands and will fight to the death for them. Consider football crowds and the crazy and often dangerous psychology that goes with some fans. It is also human nature to have a need to 'belong' to a group. I have come up against the same in the MAC forum because I voiced my very honest opinions about what I had bought. I ignored people that responded rudely; those that were ignorant and those that only posted to provoke a reaction, which I didn't give. I like intelligent people and I like a good and healthy debate and 355f certainly falls into that category.

This is an open forum and people should be allowed to express their views whatever they may be. Of course they should be given in a polite and non threatening context and I can't think of a single post by 355f that can be described otherwise. Nobody is more passionate about B&O than I, but neither am I naive. I know full well that B&O ask a high premium for the BV7 because we live in a world where increasingly, people will pay silly money for products, just to have them. I know because I am one of these people! But the very clear difference is that I knew what I was buying into, and why I was doing it. I made a choice. To be ignorant of the fact (and all 355F is does is state facts very clearly) is to your own detriment and you are clearly delluding yourself for reasons known only to yourself. I suspect its a way to justify your purchase and to feel sure you made the right one, which make sense of course.

B&O have made products in the past that DO justify their cost, many of us would agree to that. The Lab 5s, the Lab 9s, the BS9000 are all products that spring to mind. In fact, probably most of the audio products including the speaker range. The Avant too was a clear winner when it came to justifying cost. But, the same cannot be said of the BV7 and I am in complete agreement. There's no way at all that this TV should command the price it does.The simple truth is that they charge it because people pay it, and its as simple as that.

I hope this debate can continue because it is a good one. There is no need for apologies on either side and if someone feels upset or angry then they need to ask themself why they are taking it personally? That is not a fault of the poster.

A a footnote, 355f has arguably more experience than anyone on this forum with TV technology as it is the very field that he works in and has done for 15 years. It is ignorant to question someone with that expertise ad inside knowledge of what really goes into a panel and what comes out of the factory. For crying out loud, a 7-40 probably costs less than £500 to manufacture! The markup in retail is always about 200% as an absolute minimum, I can't imagine what it is wth B&O. Let's now continue looking at the facts.

Simon.  

I forgot to mention...

I personally think that B&O have become very lazy. In the past they put much more effort into their products to make them stand out and be the best. Now, because they have firmly established the brand, and through ever increasing media coverage (use of products in TV shows, films etc) coupled with the fact that celebs and alike have introduced ever increasing premiums for products; they now perhaps think that they needn't bother going to quite the same lengths in order to sell a product because, at the end of the day, no matter how much we might be passionate about our brand, B&O is only concerned with its end of year figures. These are what count and what keeps it alive. It raises its prices, it becomes lazier, because it can and because its what so many other companies do. Tragic, but the reality of living in 2007/8.

Simon.

I have read this thread thoroughly. I don't own a BV7 and have too little experience with it so I'm not going to add any comment on the subject here. But I have to say that I agree completely with Simon about 355f. 355f is clearly an individual with his own opinion and knowledge on this subject. That is a good quality to have on Beoworld in my humble opinion. I understand that you can get insulted by his posts, but why should some of us react so violently? The forum is the place to express different views, and sometimes one agrees or disagrees. That's all in the game.

A a footnote, 355f has arguably more experience than anyone on this forum with TV technology as it is the very field that he works in and has done for 15 years. It is ignorant to question someone with that expertise ad inside knowledge of what really goes into a panel and what comes out of the factory. For crying out loud, a 7-40 probably costs less than £500 to manufacture! The markup in retail is always about 200% as an absolute minimum, I can't imagine what it is with B&O. Let's now continue looking at the facts.

Trust me, it's certainly not a fact that a BV7-40 costs £500 to produce. I'd say closer to £1500 if you factor in the production, calibration and other issues that make up the production of this (somewhat) hand-built TV.

Also, if people actually think my comments are 'violent', I'm genuinely surprised. I have no issues with 355F at all, but I'm certainly capable of making my personal opinion on product quality, perceived value and whether a product compares or not to a rival.

The Beonic Man:

My take on all of this...

I can only be honest and say that I thoroughly enjoy reading 355f's posts always. I am not threatened at all by what he writes but I think there are some members that are. It depends what kind of person you are and how sensitive you are. People get attached to their brands and will fight to the death for them. Consider football crowds and the crazy and often dangerous psychology that goes with some fans. It is also human nature to have a need to 'belong' to a group. I have come up against the same in the MAC forum because I voiced my very honest opinions about what I had bought. I ignored people that responded rudely; those that were ignorant and those that only posted to provoke a reaction, which I didn't give. I like intelligent people and I like a good and healthy debate and 355f certainly falls into that category.

This is an open forum and people should be allowed to express their views whatever they may be. Of course they should be given in a polite and non threatening context and I can't think of a single post by 355f that can be described otherwise. Nobody is more passionate about B&O than I, but neither am I naive. I know full well that B&O ask a high premium for the BV7 because we live in a world where increasingly, people will pay silly money for products, just to have them. I know because I am one of these people! But the very clear difference is that I knew what I was buying into, and why I was doing it. I made a choice. To be ignorant of the fact (and all 355F is does is state facts very clearly) is to your own detriment and you are clearly delluding yourself for reasons known only to yourself. I suspect its a way to justify your purchase and to feel sure you made the right one, which make sense of course.

B&O have made products in the past that DO justify their cost, many of us would agree to that. The Lab 5s, the Lab 9s, the BS9000 are all products that spring to mind. In fact, probably most of the audio products including the speaker range. The Avant too was a clear winner when it came to justifying cost. But, the same cannot be said of the BV7 and I am in complete agreement. There's no way at all that this TV should command the price it does.The simple truth is that they charge it because people pay it, and its as simple as that.

I hope this debate can continue because it is a good one. There is no need for apologies on either side and if someone feels upset or angry then they need to ask themself why they are taking it personally? That is not a fault of the poster.

A a footnote, 355f has arguably more experience than anyone on this forum with TV technology as it is the very field that he works in and has done for 15 years. It is ignorant to question someone with that expertise ad inside knowledge of what really goes into a panel and what comes out of the factory. For crying out loud, a 7-40 probably costs less than £500 to manufacture! The markup in retail is always about 200% as an absolute minimum, I can't imagine what it is wth B&O. Let's now continue looking at the facts.

Simon.  

 

"I have come up against the same in the MAC forum because I voiced my very honest opinions about what I had bought. I ignored people that responded rudely; those that were ignorant and those that only posted to provoke a reaction,"

and you were surprised by a negative reaction to your  'i want a mac to run windows on and basically apple suck and you're all mindless fanboys'  posts ?

The Beonic Man:

I forgot to mention...

I personally think that B&O have become very lazy. In the past they put much more effort into their products to make them stand out and be the best. Now, because they have firmly established the brand, and through ever increasing media coverage (use of products in TV shows, films etc) coupled with the fact that celebs and alike have introduced ever increasing premiums for products; they now perhaps think that they needn't bother going to quite the same lengths in order to sell a product because, at the end of the day, no matter how much we might be passionate about our brand, B&O is only concerned with its end of year figures. These are what count and what keeps it alive. It raises its prices, it becomes lazier, because it can and because its what so many other companies do. Tragic, but the reality of living in 2007/8.

Simon.

 

it's called running a business , don't attack bno , attack the greedy governments and their prohibitive tax regimes

 bno as a tiny company simply can't afford the enormous r&d outlay of a sony or panasonic , give them a break

 for what they do - they're amazing