I love this site, the people on it, and the threads that develop.

Excellent thread, all I have is this.......

http://beocentral.com/beo610 

Not sure if it's rare or not.

Wooden 5000 - eeek! :-)

Also I'm guessing Promo / Pre-production stuff is always 'rare' while released items can be rare just due to the small number sold?

Tim has written a good piece on this at Beocentral. Essentially rare pieces occur for a number of reasons:

1. Nobody bought it because it didn't meet market needs (took too long to develop) or it wasn't very good! Think Beosystem 10!

2. They have all broken because they had a fatal flaw - MX3000 and, to be fair, the brilliant BeoVison 3400.

3. They were a prototype - the red labels you see now. Some prototype go on to be made - probably the Beomaster 5000 - whereas some just don't pass muster - the wood 5000 system and possibly the 4401 - why make two identical models with no difference except colour which will increase the costs substantially.

So my BM1400 is a rarity - because I own 1% of the production

Not really - it has a white label btw.

I have an anodised black Beocentre 3500 from the mid seventies.It has even the turntable platter in black.All original finish,not a mod job.I've never seen another yet.It looks great too!

The black faced Beocenter 3500 was in the catalogues but not with a black platter.
Is the top surface also black on yours ?

If not, I am tempted to believe that the black platter came from a Beocenter 3600 (another rarity).

Martin

The 3600 is indeed rare - Chris donated one to the still born museum which I took down to Bellac. Only one I ever saw. I did hear an amusing story about these - at least the UK ones. They were the first devices to use the MMCX000 cartridges and it was discovered after a few had been sold that the arm weight was completely wrong and the cartridges were tracking at about 4g instead of 1.5 . The dealer told be that they had to surreptitiously visit each owner of these at home and tweak the arm weight!

Not one of my favourites - somehow manages to make anodised aluminium look like plastic. I didn't know you had one of those Martin! I suppose I should not be surprised!

I don't !

I imported a basketcase Beocenter 3600 from the UK and restored it to like new condition (photo).
Later, I traded it for something else with another danish collector.
I immediately regretted doing so and I am now looking for another...

Martin

I don't know how odd/rare the ambiophonic control unit is, they are definitely not that common today

Peter :

1. Nobody bought it because it didn't meet market needs (took too long to develop) or it wasn't very good! Think Beosystem 10!

Peter, I feel I have to defend the dear old thing! 

I've read Tim's views of the Beosystem 10, and I understand all the arguments particularly around the cassette mechanism and the fact that it isn't a Beolit for the 80s.  I bought one new in the very early 90s and I still have it.  It is a solid and reliable AM/FM radio, capable of pulling in signals from all over the place and with the ability to connect either a CD player or a B&O record player (with or without an RIAA preamp) through the same phono sockets at the switch of a ....switch. 

It's got a reasonale amplifier that will drive external speakers - I've used it with CX 100s perfectly happily, albeit with some radical tone control adjustment, and it runs off mains or battery.   I know it's made in Japan, not Denmark, which offends the purist in me, but of all the Japanese-sourced stuff that was around in the 80s and early 90s, I think it is the most B&O like. 

And unlike any other B&O portable - by which I mean something that can be run off a humble battery (or 6, to be accurate) - it plays in stereo. 

Cleve

Rearding the red labels, these are Early Samples. So they are not production models and they should have been returned to B&O. So they are rare! The Master Stereo 610K was not a stereo radio at all. It could only play stereo from the record player or the tape recorder, the tuner was mono. It was only sold in 1963 after which it was replaced by the Beomaster 900 which could be equipped with a stereo decoder. If you look in the service manual of the Master Stereo you can see that ther is only one audio line from the tuner. So it should have been called Master Almost Stereo 610K.

Peter :

Tim has written a good piece on this at Beocentral

Nice article! It also shows how different the different markets really are - Tim writes "[...] they certainly have offered some cabinet finishes which aren’t often seen. How about an MX 2000 (and matching VHS 82) in bright pillarbox red?" Well, that was actually the most popular MX colour here in Sweden during the first couple of years. :-) We also seem to have been much more found of the white products than you were, it's almost easier to find a white BC7700 than a rosewood one here. :-)

There were two main series of Master 610 built;
First series (units with a serial number lower than 761000) has no provision for MPX stereo decoder.
Second series (units with serial number 822001 or higher) are ready for MPX.

There are microscopic differencies like the type of regulator transitor used etc. but apart from the
inclusion on an arial trap filter and a slightly improved stabilizing of the tuner frontend power supply the
tuners are basically the same in the two series, the only difference being that the later series used the third
set of switch contacts of the Stereo pushbutton to short the outputs of the stereo decoder into mono.

Martin

Spotted in the Struer museum, it only has the museum label at the back. No serial number etc.

The Beogram CD50 below it, however, has a red label with "Kab.Montage" on it, suggesting that
it is merely an empty cabinet.

Martin

If you look in the service documentation for BeoCenter 9000 you can actually find the order numbers for fineer and the chassis in Palisander = Rosewood. I have never seen a BeoCenter 9000 in rosewood though.......

Also in one brochure a BeoGram CD50 is shown whith a lid next to the drawer which could be opened like BeoMaster 5000 with probably some controls on there!

The Beogram CD50 shown in the very first catalogues was indeed a prototype.
It was also advertized to include a peak-search function, a thing the production models never had.

Martin

hemenex:

Dillen:

Note the red label, serial number and the P3 stamp (type of palisander finish).

Martin,

just for curiousity: what does a red label mean?

Is it prototype or limited edition?

I own an BM5000 with a red label but shows no strange differences to the white label one.

Thanks,

  Gunther

 

The red label means:

Prototype  - ”This product must not be sold”.

The products with a red label was produced in a very limited number as a kind of pre production.

Typical the limited numbers were 30 pcs or 50 pcs.

All were used by the Bang & Olufsen development teams to verify specifications, productivity and functionality.

Most were destroyed after the development group has ended the work and at those days employees (working with development) could “borrow” these sets to use at home.

 

/Frede

 

classic:

Most were destroyed after the development group has ended the work and at those days employees (working with development) could “borrow” these sets to use at home.

 

I want a job like that.

The products with the red labels were also used for marketing, to show to dealers or the press before the actual products are released. They should always be returned to B&O after use, but it seems that this not always happens. Must have been the same for my MCL2AV with red serial number label......

I have a Beomaster 6001 (Beomaster 6000 prototype) and it also has a red label. It came with a prototype Beomaster Terminal which also has a red label. The protype Terminal is identic to the final production Beomaster Terminal. My father (Earlier Bang & Olufsen employee) told me, that back in the days, when Bang & Olufsen produced prototypes with red labels, these prototypes were offered for sale to Bang & Olufsens employees. If employees bought one of these red label prototypes, they agreed, that they wouldn't sell them, and if the sometime wanted part with them, they would have to bring them back to Bang & Olufsen - But this hasn't always been the case! A few of the prototypes are still around as you can see.

AFAIK Bang & Olufsen don't produce prototypes that they offer to the employees afterwards anymore. I think that's because they are "Not guaranteed to be in accordance with specification" as Bang & Olufsen has written on some of the prototypes. And also because they know of experience, that they may won't get all the prototypes back when and if the employees or exemployees part with them. AFAIK all prototypes are getting destroyed now, when Bang & Olufsen are finish with them, if Bang & Olufsen don't keep a few of them on the fabric like this one.

 

- Dennis

The 5000 system of the 80's with wood-trim was probably not just a prototype. Has anybody else noticed, that in the service manuals they show the part-numbers for cabinets with Rosewood, Teak and Oak trim..? Even the drawings shows the cabinets with wood-trim...

I have never seen pictures of those systems with wood-trim in any catalogues...Nor have I seen them in real life -except for the one in Struer Museum (Beogram) shown on Dillens picture.

And what do we have here ?

Martin

Just another Beomaster 900 ?
Well, yes - and no.
The backside says Master 610

Martin

Dillen:

And what do we have here ?

Hmm, a split volume knob.. the receiver chassis from a radiogram or AV centre ( ) installed in a 900M case?

Mika is onto something here.
What's happening with that volume control ?

It's the same type used in the radiogram and TV combo models where the balance control on the backside
cannot be easily accessed.
This one has the balance control at the back but ALSO the twin volume controls at the front. All working!
Don't mind the stray dial pointer behind the dial. The string has snapped and it's just rattling around in there.

But it's not a 900M case;
The usual countersunk chassis screws underneath are not here.

The paper clips that once held the built-in antenna fitted underneath the cabinet are present, though.
That suggests a Master 610 since they had the antenna clamped underneath the cabinet as
a (usual red) wire.
In the Beomaster 900 the antenna was fitted into grooves cut into the inner sides of the cabinet.

I just told you all a few posts higher up that the Master 610 wasn't produced in a model
without speakers.
That was not true, then.
Obviously, a least one was produced.

Even if missing, the serial number label always leaves a trace from where the glue held on to the metal.
This one carries no traces of any labels on the back.

Martin