I have to agree with the glacial remark.

I'm not really up to speed on tellies, but I trust you guys when you say they're not up to speed in that department.

When it comes to audio, they sure are slow, their products really doesn't give any feeling of buying cream of the crop. The BS5/BM5 doesn't even have the useability of an iPod touch (even if we tether the touch to a dock), and it's nowhere near the useability of a Squeezebox Duet (or SQB Touch, for that matter), and even Sonos wipes their feet all over what could have been a top notch audio product.

I'm not with Tripenglish at all: You need presence to have architects choose the brand. And although you may have found a nice niche for yourself over there, it's  a bit naive in my book to think that your niche would work as well as it does if it was the sole thing B&O did. And yes, a $500k installation may be an every-month event for you, but how big a percentage of that is channeled to B&O?

In addition, it may work for you over there, but places with lots of apartments and where people tend to move a lot, installations seems to be farther apart. I like to have everything hidden away, but I do it myself, to be honest. 

I very much doubt that you would have so much work if it were not for the retail presence.

As it is, their top speakers, the BL5s need to have the D/A converter upgraded. Not because it sounds anywhere near awful, but for practical reasons: It needs to be able to support more than  just 44.1khz, 88.2khz and 176.4khz. It needs to support not only 48kHz, 96khz, 192kHz, but also the inbetweeners such as 48.048khz and so on (it's a US movie "thing").

The BS5 is so covetable from the mere looks of it, but it lacks so much in the useability department it's ridiculous. No amount of TripEnglish installs will change that. No iPod user (or Creative user, Squeezebox user or the like) will end up buying that thing if they have any of those products and want to upgrade their "system". When an iPod does more (I speak of audio related functions only), and does it better, much better, why buy something as expensive, bulky and cumbersome as the BS5/bm5?

I'm not even a fan of iPods, but I'm using it as an example because many people have them. And if you wonder, iPods does wav and lossless too.

Edit:

I forgot to mention, the BL9s need a D/A converter too. If a small company like AVI HiFI can do it for cheaps (I  believe they pay about £15 for the DAC in theirs), surely B&O can do it easily too.

@Electrified

You're touching upon what Trip somehow just skips: that the brand needs to be in general circulation in order to achieve cachet, the more so when we speak of a premium brand that wants to "stand out from the crowd." For a brand's cachet to grow, the purchasing decision should be a product of a discerning customer's evaluation, not that of the negotiating skills of B&O Property Development Assistance.
If it's installed in every apartment in a large condo, or in every house in a residential development project, then the brand becomes "the crowd," and something else will then stand out from it.

You risk having the brand reduced to an installation on a par with what runs your lighting, curtains and door-answering set-up ... where the actual A/V products just become part of a larger pre-installed package, where the owners have not made discerning purchasing decisions - and that will kill the brand.

Imagine buying a house in Florida and being told: "All the houses in this project come with a Porsche 911, silver colored." The notion may sound attractive, until you see yourself and all your neighbors driving the same car.

There have been so many strange decisions from Struer that there's little reason to wonder over this one, it joins the others.

BeoFab:

............................. You don't get a fifth place of the coolest brands in UK without people knowing about the brand and even better thinking that is "cool", even in a market where the sales went down 27%.................................

While I don't disagree with a lot of what you've said, I would be a little wary of reading too much into the "fifth place" and assuming a high level of brand awareness. Reading HERE, as I posted in the "cool" thread, it seems the placing is more about a bunch of marketeers telling us what they want us to think is cool, rather than real Joes voting it into fifth place!

The "poll" accounted for no more than 30% of the overall voting procedure!

Since The RF Avant dvd I have been waiting for a proper replacement. For me the Bv-10 was.  I compare to the silly prices asked for 7-40 which I never considered.

What do I get for my money: All I need. No need for extra dolby digital boxes, no need for ugly center speakers and a beautiful peace of furniture. just like the avant. Also good enough built in sound (not like avant I know) compared to all sony etc out there with useless built in speakers. 

So for me B&O are on the right course now but have to keep deliver like they did with Bv 10.

I actually thick it would be a good move to lower price on Bv8 to make it a true MX replacement.

It was the MX 6000 that really got me..

soundproof:

@Electrified

You're touching upon what Trip somehow just skips: that the brand needs to be in general circulation in order to achieve cachet, the more so when we speak of a premium brand that wants to "stand out from the crowd." For a brand's cachet to grow, the purchasing decision should be a product of a discerning customer's evaluation, not that of the negotiating skills of B&O Property Development Assistance.
If it's installed in every apartment in a large condo, or in every house in a residential development project, then the brand becomes "the crowd," and something else will then stand out from it.

You risk having the brand reduced to an installation on a par with what runs your lighting, curtains and door-answering set-up ... where the actual A/V products just become part of a larger pre-installed package, where the owners have not made discerning purchasing decisions - and that will kill the brand.

Imagine buying a house in Florida and being told: "All the houses in this project come with a Porsche 911, silver colored." The notion may sound attractive, until you see yourself and all your neighbors driving the same car.

There have been so many strange decisions from Struer that there's little reason to wonder over this one, it joins the others.

Yup. Much more eloquent than when I wrote it :)

I'll respond two ways:

A) I'm not advising, nor is anyone as far as I'm reading, a pull-back from any market segment. I'm advising broadening how each store does business and local networking in the design community is something that each store owner or manager has to undertake individually as each local community functions differently. Just as restaurants may offer catering to bolster their bottom lines, so should we approach selling through or with the aid of interior designers & architects. Even if retail business was strong, which it is not, what responsible owner would say no to these reliable revenue streams?

B) Let's say, for the sake of this discussion, that we did move completely upscale and abandon any artifice of affordability or accessibility by anyone but the genuinely wealthy. If that were the case, the brand would not need to circulate anywhere near as widely as you seem to think. There are luxury brands that many people have never heard of that are so widely used in small communities that you'd think they were in every publication. So it's not that I overlook the penetration of the brand, I simply understand that someone who can't afford my products but knowing all about them is oftentimes a tree falling in the woods.

In conclusion, though, point B is a hypothetical and will almost surely remain so. B&O is more accessible now than it has been in 10 years with more dynamic offerings in every category than most of its peers. When I make these arguments it is not to say that we have nothing to say to mid-market consumers, but rather an observation that those same consumers have little to say to anyone right now. They're being more frugal generally and waiting for stability to return before they start making significant purchases. This is why the wealthy client is so important at this point and why it's incumbent on the shop owners to find these clients and meet them in the marketplace in the ways that they are accustomed to, which is to say in direct meetings through design surrogates rather than greeting them with a cup of tea in a showroom as we would with most high-street shoppers.

looking at first quarter for sony dont show uk separate

but europe asia africa minus 27 percent vis a vis 2009

so all having problems

Sometimes it's worth looking at what others are doing. The GMO of Meridian used to be in charge of B&O UK - decision times at Meridian are somewhat shorter, and that shows in the news that Meridian releases about their activities and products.

http://www.meridian-audio.com/news.aspx

I'm encouraged by the fact that B&O's new CEO seems to have a more focused strategy on product novelties and on getting B&O up to speed relative to what the market wants.

BeoFab; I like your points, and the depth of opinion deserves to be revisited so ...

BeoFab:

You know, every opinion here has a little bit of truth. But is just part of the truth and not the whole.

The brand is far from dead. I would say depending what market It is exactly the oposite. You don't get a fifth place of the coolest brands in UK without people knowing about the brand and even better thinking that is "cool", even in a market where the sales went down 27%.

I think there are lag and lead indicators: "cool brand" is a lag indicator; what is needed as a "lead indicator" is design freshness and the "must have" compulsion that Apple inspires in its fan base.  At first the BS5/BM5 seemed to generate that, but it quickly petered out ... the BV10 has been better handled and received but B&O fans as a cachet product. We need one of these very year, but unlike Apple's replacement strategy, B&O should have an augmentation strategy: I think the BeoLab 11 is brilliant - price it right, design it right, position it right, and every link room will have one sooner or later.

BeoFab:

The problem is the recession really hit very hard the middle class and aspirational market that apparently UK depends very heavily on.

Not just the UK ! I am sure Trip would agree jis middle-class retail trade has dropped off - that is why he is diversifying his channels.

BeoFab:

What I really think is dead is B&O as we know it, at least if B&O wants to survive. 

They really need to focus in two strategies: SURVIVAL and GROWTH. Every business in order to survive they need to generate cash and in order to grow they need to generate brand awareness, great products and cash.

The report was very clear, they get their major cashflow influx from the new products. And in my humble opinion that is the key to survival AND success.

Agree; but growth comes from two places: augmentation of the existing customer set ... look how iPods generated a following for iPhones that has perfectly position Apple to this year launch the iPad to create the demand for their next product family: the Apple TV (maybe they should have called it iVision? iVideo?)

BeoFab:

CASH GENERATION ACTIVITIES

SPEAKERS

B&O is specially well known for speakers and there is no doubt they do great in that area. Probably adding another subwoofer in between the BL11 and BL2. Also another great addition would be an speaker between the BL 9 and the BL 3 with ALT.

Absolutely!

And even form strategic alliances to leverage the speakers into different customer bases: I would love to know if the auto alliances are leading to the clients of Audi, BMW, etc now asking for B&Os for their homes.

BeoFab:

TV/VIDEO

TVs is a market which is very profitable for B&O and the fact that the BV10 is a great success is due in my opinion to two main factors: great desing and "affordability"(for B&O standars). And that is the key for this segment.

As someone else said (apologies, I can't remember whom) the fact that the surround sound processing is on board the BV10 makes its form factor even more remarkable: sell that as a WAF and as a purse-acceptance-factor :-) !

BeoFab:

TVs lately are more and more a commodity and they can't charge as much as they did in the past for a commodity.

I am not so sure ... I often find rubbish when I stay in hotels or visit homes.  It is unbelievable what people are prepared to live with.  And then justify it on the basis of "well we got a really good deal" ... yes, and then for every night of the next 1,001 nights you have inferior sound, abysmal controls, confusing interfaces, etc, etc, etc.

BeoFab:

But there is still a lot of room for good design, features and customization, all of them very strong selling points for B&O the key here is they need to review their pricing strategy and make sure that the big aspirational market as in UK still can change their TV in a 3 to 5 years time frame without even looking at other brands like LOEWE.

In terms of new products the posibilities are endless but it comes one to mind that could be a big mid term success: a beocenter with bluray AND internet downloading capabilities (or a new product equivalent).

Not sure about that one ... but I do find it interesting that the distributors seem to be moving to a two for one strategy: buy a movie and get it in both BluRay and DVD format.  In fact this weekend Disney has launched quite an expensive print campaign around "unlocking the Disney vault" where you can buy "Beauty and the Beast" in October (want to bet they will unlock it again in November and December ? ) and you get the BluRay copy, a BluRay add-on disk with materials for the kids (I guess games, etc), and "a DVD copy for those long car trips" or "the kids' rooms".

An interesting coexistence strategy.

BeoFab:

I say mid term success because eventually downloading movies probably will become the standard. And that is a feature that they want to include in the upcoming TVs.

TELEPHONES

The truth is this market will eventually disappear. More and more people tend to use just their cellphones and even Skype is a huge competition for the land lines.

Sad. We love our Beocom 6000 and I love the Beotalk. Just a pity that their mobiles were a disaster - what we need is an iPhone app (impossible I know) to integrate with the Beocom's phone book.  

BeoFab:

AUDIO

The line of products is key and they seem that in the digital era they lost their compass. They are very off here and they quickly need to react. The BS5 is beautiful but is a very expensive Apple TV / Ipod with even more limitations. Here is where they need to work harder and really nail it with a succesful product. The BS5 encore I say that is getting really close but still with some issues (based on the little know information about), like no apple lossless, no affordable enough (yes it needs to be more affordable in order to get a critical mass-the minimum amount required to maintain a venturepoint-).

All the rumours of the Encore (nice name) have just confused me; I am waiting to be deconfused.

BeoFab:

As for new products I would look at Sonos and make it beautiful, design oriented, reliable and with some B&O "magical touch".

When I looked at the Sonos in the UK I was not impressed by its point-of-sale material ... and I don't know anyone locally who has one for me to appreciate; but I know several people here are very vocal about its technical achievements.

BeoFab:

Another product that could be a success would be turntables, yes they are alive, kicking and coming back and many companies are taking advantage of this trend why not b&O who was very successful in this area.

One more thing APPLE is here to stay and they are no going anywhere but up. So join them, yes make the products more APPLE friendly after all they are the owners of a huge portion of the digital market and B&O will not keep ignoring this ( late but here is the fact of the new dock, which is late to the party but a strong sign about the realization from B&O that they need to join the party).

Absolutely agree on learning to live inside and alongside the Apple ecosystem.

BeoFab:

CAR AUDIO

Like it or not this strategy is brillant. The fact that they are compiting with a huge marketing engine like bose and beating them to the punch speaks very well about the strong will and fight capabilities of this division. I hope it is contagious and spreads to the whole company.

It creates brand awareness, cashflow and possitive asociation (bmw is good quality and reliable>b&O too; Aston is exclusive and elegant>b&o too; etc).

Absolutely.

BeoFab:

HOSPITALITY and R.E. DEVELOPMENT

New hotel and r.e. developments are still suffering of the huge financial crisis well known by everybody. No signs of growth here for the short and mid-term.

I believe it is important to get airtime in front of the business traveller - a smart strategy especially when other hotel experiences of other brands are so disappointing.  However the Bose wave clock approach is very neat for hotel placement.  Maybe B&O can sell a truckload of the Beosound 8 to do similar functions.

BeoFab:

AUTOMATION INDUSTRY

More alianzes and integration with key players in this field is very important. Little by little home automation is less of a luxury reserved for the extremely rich and more and more upper middle class and middle class are having access to it. Personally I don't like their product but I think Control 4 is a good example of this.

I always wanted home automation ... but right now it is too complex and difficult ... I would love for B&O to show a simple path to achieving this.

BeoFab:

BRAND AWARENESS ACTIVITIES

PRODUCT PLACEMENT

Let's face it B&O is a small company and advertising and PR costs can skyrocket. Based on this budget limitation I still think that their strategy of product placement in movies (ex. Batman) and tv shows (ex. Entourage) is brillant. They just need to duplicate or triplicate the efforts. I know nothing about the cost of this type of campaigns but my guess is they are way much more affordable than any type of graphic(magazines) or tv campaingn.

I sort of agree ... but I think they should be placed so that they wow factor is obvious ... like have the actor OPEN a beosound 2.

BeoFab:

EVENTS SPONSORIGN

It is another great way to obtain affordable publicity. Probably not the type of events that are the most expensive la Formula 1 but a Rolex type of event like: Polo matches, skiing, yachting even tennis.

Still very expensive.

BeoFab:

Another great option is sponsoring or organizing events for fundraising and charity which generate cheap publicity, buzz and good karma

PRODUCT EDUCATION AND AWARENESS

This area is key. Not everybody really knows that if they want surround sound with a B&O tv they just need the tv and the speakers without an AV receiver like in every other tv out there. This feature is key and not everybody knows about it, specially in the US market which by the way is a completely different animal.

LOL: it was you who had mentioned the point I elaborated above !

BeoFab:

Not everybody knows that the Beo5 correctly programmed is the best universal remote control, compatible with a huge among of products like lutron and a big list of other third party products. In the other hand compared with other remote controls is still "affordable".

But can the average store sell it and install it that way?  I have seen no evidence of local knowledge or desire to do this.

BeoFab:

Not everybody knows that the products come with such a good warranty.

U.S. MARKET

The potential for this market is very big but first they need to realize that the american way is completely different than the european market. Somehow educate that bigger is not better and sometimes less is more is key. An idea, agresivelly ridiculize showing some other products, like a HUMMER (Huge and very ineficient) and an AUDI (elegant, efficient, sexy).

There is hope for the Americans - look at their adoption of Apple  

BeoFab:

For the US market customer service is key. A large amount of product launches and maintain certain affordability in the products is really important. The american market is use to throw away and buy new fairly often, take advantage of it.

I guess very true for the iPods . . . . . . . but on the other hand they are relatively inexpensive (compared to B&O) . . . . . . and iTunes manages and preserves the real investment: the media one has purchased or captured.

BeoFab:

BENCHMARKING

The obvious candidate is Apple, but there are also many companies to study for inspiration and knowledge: Loewe (product customization/design more affordable), Sonos (bullet proof wireless integration), Audi (stylish, avant garde design, less is more, "affordable" luxury). And the list can go on forever.

Anyway I just hope that things improve for B&O in terms of their figures and somehow put together all the great things they have, and find thier way to success.

Thank you for your very considered post ... and all the other well though out posts by others that posted after you