I know where you're coming from Peter, but £1500 is a lot of cash for many people. I really wanted one to add to my collection, and with a bit of eBay playing my cards right, got both components for £250 all in. Now I know mine won't sound anywhere near as good as yours, but I now at least have one in my collection and can listen to it and still be impressed for 1/6 the price of a fully-restored one. Maybe one day I will send mine to Frede for a complete refurb too, but I'll perhaps wait until I'm qualified and have some flash money again like I used to have *sigh* !!!

I have to agree with you John. I'm sure a Frede special would be amazing but I cant justify spending £1500 on a stereo that stands me in less than £100. Yes it would look and sound better but as my 5000 has beaten of my 8000 and 6000 systems and I prefer the sound it gives through the pentas to what I got from an overture and BL8000's I dont think it can be in that bad nick. If I earned more then yes, off to Frede it would go but at the moment I will await the lottery win before I send it off.

My personal excuse is that I simply would not enjoy my system as much if it had been repaired / restored by somebody else, as long as I'm able to do it myself. Probably more than half the satisfaction I get from vintage B&O is getting to know how they work and how they have been built.

Plus of course, I don't think I've ever paid £1500 or more for anything except one car! And even that is soon 50 years old

I confess to being of exactly the same mind as you for many years! £600 to restore my Beolab 5000 which I had bought for next to nothing seemed crazy when I first investigated it - especially as my good friend Tim did it for nothing. But having mulled it over for several years, I took the plunge and don't regret it at all. I do have the full set but am still using my BBC LS3/5a speakers!

So Peter, if you have the units is the cost £600, and it's £1500 smackeroos if you don't have anything to bring to Frede?

Seems more reasonable and do-able if that's the case :)

At the risk of taking this thread further away from the original question, I'm a bit confused about a Beolab/Beomaster 5000 from Frede as well! 

Can I just turn up on his doorstep, give him 1500 GBP in Kroner and he'll give me a shiny amp and tuner?  If so, that's not a bad price for what is essentially a hand-made piece.  In fact, given the number of hours he spends on restoring these things, it sounds a bargain. 

Cleve

£600 was for the Beolab 5000 amplifier I think. That was an initial quote - I cannot remember what I paid as I had the Beolab, Beomaster, Beovox 2500 and Beogram 3000 Thorens all restored. Unfortunately my equipment had been poorly stored by a friend and most was in Frede's view not worth restoring, despite it being in very good condition when I had had it. Frede replaced the items except for the Beogram hich was complately refurbished and a 12" arm board made and fitted. He also sourced a bespoke cartridge for the arm.

I think each project is treated on its merits - I certainly think I have a bargain - I have a as new system with incredible performance which is practically unique. I was also able to choose the finish and was kept informed all the way through. Meeting Frede and enjoying his hospitality was the icing on the cake. I do realise that spending this sort of money on a 40 year old Hi-Fi which if by any other company would be regarded only as skip fodder seems odd, but I suspect owners of these Frede restored systems are all very satisfied. There are a good number of us now and I have not heard a single dissenting voice.

Hi Peter,

I really think this is a case of 'perceived value', much like the general forum threads about B&O modern equipments value...

I for one know I have spent much in excess of what many others would for my 25 + year old system.... my original 6000 w 80.2 I spent around S$1750 (870 GBP) buying and shipping the system here... about another S$300 (150GBP) getting caps and having them installed (even though the unit had been serviced and some had already been done)... Most recently I spent close to S$1200 (600GBP) buying, shipping and having Martin devote time and care in servicing my BG8002... 

Did I spend too much, probably, am I happy, most definitely... I really didn't see I had much choice in this case, with no local sources and no electronic skills to mend ebay gambles ... I just made the decision to spend what was necessary to ensure that I got a unit that will be able to give me years of enjoyment ...

If I had more electronics knowledge I might try the gamble with unknown or malfunctioning equipment .... but maybe in the future, who knows, our fellow members certainly inspire me to!  

I think a fully serviced unit by Frede at 1500GBP while expensive, is very good value given the time, and skill required to achieve a full restoration... I think you have to consider this in the realm of other restored collectables which increase in value as they age (think antique furniture, art and the like)....

I guess its all relative really.

Laurence.

Laurence - you're spot on when you say everything is relative, but it's what everything is relative to that's important here. For a great many people £1500 is a month's net wages, and in today's economic climate I think we have to be mindful of the fact that not everyone has that kind of cash floating about. Sure, if we were talking about new products then £8000 for a new TV might be considered reasonable relative to the competition, but in terms of vintage products (and the OP was specifically asking about entry level vintage B&O) the Beolab 5000 system is sought after anyway. Frede's restoration is painstaking, and perhaps really represents the high-end of vintage, which not everyone can afford. One of the things that first got me into older B&O gear was the fact that I could pick up pieces from eBay and build a collection, but if everything attracted a premium I seriously wouldn't have bothered...

Hi John,

I hear you and totally agree .. we all adjust our perceptions constantly of what constitutes value to us, this is guided, as you say by our current incomes, the economic climate, and our wishes and desires of what is important.... 5 years ago I wouldn't have spent the money I have on my vintage system, couldn't have justified it to myself, but now I thought it would be something nice for me to have and enjoy  .... and made the necessary adjustments, which felt right for me.

I must say, to be very honest that I often feel extremely jealous of the ability in UK / Europe / USA to pick up older B&O gems for next to nothing (comparatively of course), you are all very fortunate, would love to be able to do that ... ha ha... would probably have a very bad case of the beovirus then!

Yes, I think you are very right that we have diverged from the original intent of the thread .... apologies.

Laurence.

I do agree that this thread has meandered slightly! I also completely agree with John that £1500 is one heck of a lot of money, especially when one can get a very good system for next to nothing - and sometimes nothing! I have had a Beogram 3000, Beomaster 3000-2 and a suitable pair of speakers for less than £50 and these are items that will give the Beolab 5000 system a reasonable bit of competition. I reckon you could put a good 4400 based system together for less than £200 with it all working and in good condition. And that would be as good as anything in my view. Hence my original recommendation!

However I do think this is an interesting thread and I am sure John and beaker's 5000 systems sound superb and they certainly look good. My unrestored version in the one pictured on Beocentral and that was preety good as well.

The OP is back! And now I'm golden.

I'll give you some more background.

At present I am playing my CDs on my X-box with the beautiful sound of my LCD's built in speakers. "This has to stop", I finally say and resolve to get a stereo.

Then, I get a massive urge to build a vinyl collection. I'm at a stage financially where I can afford to put a collection together. So I better get a turntable...

If I'm doing that I want to get something good so I start looking around and I see a picture of a B&O stack and think I like it. But is it any good? And what's it's price/worth (and I'm aware that price and worth are different things)?

Now, my original plan had been to spend about £500. Then I see Peter's 7000 and think hmm, I love that. But £1,500??? So I then decide to join the forum and ask everyone's opinion.

And now I think I'm in the dangerous position of having a little bit of knowledge so I'm going to go back to before and be nice and ignorant, and, perhaps, phrase my question more accurately.

"If you had £500-£750 to spend and you were starting from scratch, but with the knowledge you have now, what would you buy?"

Add to that "Would it be safe to buy it on ebay?"

Perhaps the question should be "should I just post in the wanted forum 'I have £500-£750 to spend. I want to play CDs and records and I have no equipment at all at present. What do you have that you might want to sell that fits the bill? And can I reach you easily from Surrey to collect it?'?"

(not sure about the grammar of my quote inside a quote so please forgive me if I've got it wrong)

... and I took so long writing that, that 3 or so more replies have arrived to the thread in the meantime.

kb1981:

...

If I'm doing that I want to get something good so I start looking around and I see a picture of a B&O stack and think I like it. But is it any good? And what's it's price/worth (and I'm aware that price and worth are different things)?

"If you had £500-£750 to spend and you were starting from scratch, but with the knowledge you have now, what would you buy?"

Add to that "Would it be safe to buy it on ebay?"

Perhaps the question should be "should I just post in the wanted forum 'I have £500-£750 to spend. I want to play CDs and records and I have no equipment at all at present. What do you have that you might want to sell that fits the bill? And can I reach you easily from Surrey to collect it?'?"

...

a Beosystem 5500/6500/7000 should be your choice then

get it on ebay or anywhere else - local pick-up will give you the better price and a chance to see the system before paying

you can always sell the system if you don't like it (which won't be the case ;-)) without loosing (too much) money on ebay.

Ralf

It might help kb1981 if you expressed a preference for one particular system...though going from what you have already posted I think you might be after a 5000/5500/6500/7000 stack system. You can probably forget the full 6500 or 7000 stack on your budget as the turntables for these later models are hard to come by as not every one sold included one as they were contemporaneous with the steady demise of the LP.

You could pick up a 5000 system quite easily in that price range. I should know as I sold one last year and got something like £550ish for the component parts. There are pros and cons to the 5000 vs. the 5500, in that the earlier model has less connectivity with newer B&O products/speakers/remotes, but does have a better amp. I'd try for a 5500 if I were you, but be warned that as with all old B&O, there are no guarantees how much longer the units will function (if indeed they function at all).

For your budget, I would get passive speakers regardless of the system I chose. Beovox MC120.2s are relatively cheap, are small enough to fit into an interior, and have a great sound for the price a pair will cost. Drawbacks are that they are usually in rosewood, which is not always the most forgiving choice in a modern setting, and that they are popular = hard to come by!

If you really persevere, you could get the above speakers plus a Beomaster 6000 or 8000 + a Beogram 8000 or 8002 for your budget, but there will be no quick wins if you go down this route as the bits are not guaranteed to be in the same county (or even country) on eBay, and may not work meaning you will have to befriend one of the handful of restorers who can fix the bits up for you.

Happy hunting.

kallasr:

a Beosystem 5500/6500/7000 should be your choice then

get it on ebay or anywhere else - local pick-up will give you the better price and a chance to see the system before paying

you can always sell the system if you don't like it (which won't be the case ;-)) without loosing (too much) money on ebay.

All these eBay purchases are of course a little bit like buying a used car - don't get the most expensive one you can afford, because you are bound to need some repair budget as well. In particular when you're planning to play a lot of vinyl, don't trust a word the sellers have to say about the cartridge in the Beogram - always count in that you might need a replacement or a rebuild right away.

These systems are of course very nice in that you can use just about every B&O (or other) speaker with them, from the most affordable passives to the latest actives, and swap / upgrade at your own pace (only 5500 won't have Powerlink connectors).

However, I have a mental block talking about the stack systems as vintage - but it's true that most of them are 20+ years old now.

For that sort of money, the bargains are in the older equipment - a Beomaster 8000/6000 can come up at a low price but do remember that it was almost definitely need work. If you are relatively useless electronically (like me!) you will need to factor in the repairs. Remember that old systems travel badly - what works at one end may well not when it gets to you.

If you want to be safe, buy from one of the re-sellers who will offer a warranty so you know it will work. My 7000 system , which is not cheap, comes with all the original boxes and packaging, manuals, set up guides and cables. It also comes with the 7000 remote which is quite an item in itself. By the time you buy a group of disparate items, repair them and find the manuals, you will approach a similar price for a lesser system. If you look at the prices , a good Beogram 7000 with an MMC2 will sell for up to £600 especially if boxed. The Beolink 7000 sells for £350 and this one has a new battery pack. You then get the Beomaster, Beocord and Beogram CD for £545 in total, again all boxed and with a guarantee.

The 6500/7000 system has the huge advantage that it works with the modern equipment - a 5500 is not as accomodating. You can choose passive speakers to start with and then get active Beolabs if you wish.

However if £750 is your limit, go for a Beocenter 9500 and a record player. Get the 9500 from a reseller and chance your arm on eBay for a record player as they have less to go wrong. On the whole I would always pick a record player up yourself - do not get it posted - it will get broken!

Thanks guys,

I see what you're saying Peter in relation to the 7000 (and every time I read what you say about it I'm drawn to it) but I think to an extent I have to take a bit of a gamble.

Some elements are not so important to me. I know I can live without a remote for now, I only have a one bed flat with a total of 4 rooms so I don't need to link the system. So I figure why sink my money into elements I don't need now unless there is an obvious investment value in doing so (I don't know the answer to the investment question).

Is there a compatibility issue if I get a 6500/7000 master, cord and cd, with the more affordable beogram 5000 to start, with a view to upgrading to the 6500/7000 beogram when I have the money to do so and using the sale of the 5000 beogram to part finance it? 

Another vote here for one of the stacking systems as a starter system!

18 months ago I was almost in exactly the same position as the OP. I'd decided I fancied building up a vinyl collection and started looking on ebay for turntables, stumbled across a few B&O stacking systems which directed me to Beoworld, where I was sucked in by the enthusiasm for all things B&O, and it's been down hill ever since!

I ended up with a full Beosystem 5000 which I picked up for £325 and love, however as others have said it does limit compatibility with active speakers and the later remote controls, so I would recommend looking for a 5500. I have since replaced the Beomaster 5000 in my system with a 5500 for those very reasons (which I was given free very kindly by Peter!). The 5500 seems to be the most common of the vintage systems on Ebay so you will have more chance of finding a good one, and the prices for them are generally quite a bit lower than the 6500/7000 systems which as John says you will struggle to get with a turntable in your budget, even without speakers. I would recommend trying to find a full system going as one lot as you will probably get it cheaper that way than buying the components individually - if you manage to find one you should be able to get it for less than £400. Plus although as Peter says you can't use the latest active speakers, you can still use the active Beloab Pentas or Beloab 4500/5000 range which IMO are the best match for the stacking systems anyway.

As for the beocenter 9500 as much as I love the looks of that range (I have a 9000 in the bedroom) they tend to go for £400-500 on their own and the matching turntables don't turn up that often and when they do seem to attract a price premium. Similarly, as fantastic as the Beosystem 6000s and 8000s are (I did have a BM8000 in my bedroom before the 9000, but sold it because I didn't need the power), it might take a while to build up a full system as they aren't as common as the stacking systems, esp. with turntables, they take up loads of space, and they are more likely to need work doing on them. All just my opinion of course!

Having said all that, the great thing about buying vintage B&O is if you buy well you can easily change your mind and re-sell what you bought for the same as what you paid, or even make a small profit! 

kb1981:

Is there a compatibility issue if I get a 6500/7000 master, cord and cd, with the more affordable beogram 5000 to start, with a view to upgrading to the 6500/7000 beogram when I have the money to do so and using the sale of the 5000 beogram to part finance it? 

These won't hook up directly, as in the 5000/5500 the phono (RIAA) preamp is in the Beomaster, while in 6500/7000 it is in the Beogram. So you would need an external RIAA preamp, and some hassle with cable adapters if you want the remote control to the Beogram to work.

Technically these are otherwise all mix & match. But the alu parts of 5000/5500 are brushed while 6500/7000 are polished. This cosmetic mismatch would personally annoy me severely, but that is of course a matter of taste.

kb1981:

Is there a compatibility issue if I get a 6500/7000 master, cord and cd, with the more affordable beogram 5000 to start, with a view to upgrading to the 6500/7000 beogram when I have the money to do so and using the sale of the 5000 beogram to part finance it? 

Sorry, started typing my reply bnefore the OP's latest post. To answer your question, I'm afraid there would be an issue as the Beogram 5000 hasn't got an in-built RIAA which it would need to function with the later 6500/7000 amps. It would however work with the Beomaster 5500, which is what I have in my system. Also there would be an aesthetic difference which you might not have realised, as the 5000 & 5500 systems were a matt aluminium finish, whereas the 6500 & 7000 were a mirror effect polished aluminium. 

I would recommend buying a full matching 5500, and then if you still wanted you could save up towards a full 6500 or 7000 using the full re-sale value of the 5500 system to contribute to the cost.

Regarding the remote, please note you will definitely need one, as apart from the Beomaster 5000, none of the stacking systems actually have any controls on the units themselves!

ETA: Must type faster!

Wow... this thread has been everywhere!

Today...

1.) BM6500

2.) MCP6500

3.) iPod lead

4.) Passive speakers -don't have to be B&o... but buy some RL60.2

That will get you started!

Later...

5.) BG6500 + allocate for cartridge

Later...

6.) CD6500

Later...

7.) Beo4

Much later...

8.) Upgrade to some active speakers

During the entire time...

9.) ENJOY!

rgs218:

Regarding the remote, please note you will definitely need one, as apart from the Beomaster 5000, none of the stacking systems actually have any controls on the units themselves!

Good point, well made!

Thanks for everyone's input on the incompatibility, too.

tournedos:

However, I have a mental block talking about the stack systems as vintage - but it's true that most of them are 20+ years old now.

You too, huh?

IMHO, if B&o released the BM1900 (or moreso the 2400) tomorrow (not ~35 years ago!!!)... it would still drop my jaw!

Agree! Bought one of these new when it came out! (the 2400-2) Just gave a 2400 system away a few months ago - sorry to see it go but it did take up quite some space!