Puncher,

I just found your attachment.  I can't beleive how close those numbers are!!  No wonder you were disappointed! 

I don't know if this matters, but if your speakers were in storage and not being used like mine were, versus being hooked up and were used regularly, maybe that is what kept those electrolytics in good shape with yours?   Mine were dead.  I don't have the test equipment you have, but listening to mine before and after,  it was like listening to two different sets of speakers for me.  I'm impressed with your audio skills, test equipment, and spreadsheet results.  Thanks for sharing that with us.

Mike 

Puncher:

Hi Mike,

 The voltage rating od the parts should not affect their performance, although the 63V parts in the RL60's are marginal (~ 40Vac rating with the Amp of the BM5000 having 40V rails). The replacements were 100V rated devices.

An aged electroytic will shows itself first by an increasing disapation factor (tan d) which is related to it's ESR. As you can see from the measurements on the individual parts the old ones are as good as the new.

No - it would just seem that these parts survived  24 years and still within original specification - remarkable!

  Bit of a dark horse, you Puncher!
Mike, love your web site, keep it up

Jandyt:

Puncher:

Hi Mike,

 The voltage rating od the parts should not affect their performance, although the 63V parts in the RL60's are marginal (~ 40Vac rating with the Amp of the BM5000 having 40V rails). The replacements were 100V rated devices.

An aged electroytic will shows itself first by an increasing disapation factor (tan d) which is related to it's ESR. As you can see from the measurements on the individual parts the old ones are as good as the new.

No - it would just seem that these parts survived  24 years and still within original specification - remarkable!

  Bit of a dark horse, you Puncher!

Oh, I'm not just witty and handsome you know!

Thanks for the compliments on my site.  I figured after ten years of speaker building projects for myself, it was about time to give back some of my free time to webmaster and host a free site to help others with my links, resources, suppliers & limited knowledge.

I enjoy helping others, and without the forums and other people "helping me out" while I was building and learning, I couldn't have the wonderful system I have the privelidge of owning now!  I've met a lot of unselfish people who have been very helpful to me.

Let's cool it with the praises to Puncher......he is on his third order of hats, and they seem to be getting smaller by the post.....

  Bit of a dark horse, you Puncher!
Mike, love your web site, keep it up[;)

Hey Puncher,

I called my Speaker Surgeon again, and they said they would replace the ABR rubber if "I" could come up with the replacement parts, in other words, if I would do all of the R & D to have a product that would be similar in compliance with the original ABRs, which is  what HI-FI and that other fellow in Demark are already doing.  They certainly aren't going to tell me what product they are using that would be a foolish business practice.  They weren't willing to go out on the limb to help grow their business unless they could profit at learning. 

They changed their tune a bit from a few days ago.  I told them I was prepared to bring them a speaker and the ABR already opened up to see if they wanted to tackle the job so they could get referrals from my site, my contacts, and the B & O forums. 

They said if I would pay them to do the R & D and repair my other pair, they would attempt it.  I reminded them I already had created a very good modification and had the extra pair of RL 60's for spare parts and had no intentions of spending any extra money.  I'm already doing a lot of work trying to help spread the news about my very acceptable modification and was only trying to help them get a reputation and more business to be able to rebuild them as well as helping the members of this forum.

I took it a step further.  I contacted the Houston Galleria Bang and Olufsen dealer and asked who their warranty and service center is.  He said they send their products to Austin Texas to Pyramid Audio.  I called Pyramid and got a very unfriendly person who didn't want his time wasted and said if I can't provide the part for him because they aren't available either to him, so he can't fix them. He referred me to Austin Speaker Service.  For the third time I got the same answer.....You supply me the surround part and we can fix them. 

I don't think there is a person in these forums that couldn't glue and trim a piece of rubber to a pair of plates if we knew which product to use. 

So, across the large pond from you I come up empty handed except for my modification that I am so happy with.

You asked me to let ya know what I found out; and now you know......

Mike

Hi Puncher,

After all of this work, today was my scheduled install date for the addition of my old/new RL60's in my home theater as the surrounds.  I've spent hours on the ladder today and with the double crown moulding on my ceiling and my laminated support beam separating the kitchen from the living room, they won't fit.

I'm going to have to garage sale them in my forum.  I'm sure disappointed.

Well I've at least come up with a fix for them to share with everyone and the lucky new owner will have an awesome pair of RL60's and perhaps an extra pair for spare drivers..... 

It's been fun chatting with your guys in this forum and perhaps as Diana Krall sings, "We'll just do it again".

You fellows take care,

Mike

Hey guys,

I spent 8 hours Saturday night and have them installed in my home theater.  They are beautiful, especially with my red pinstriping instead of the clear plastic bands.  The red matches the red around the housing.  The install photos are now posted on my website towards the end of the page of my "Bang and Olufsen Modification" link.

A couple of folks have now followed suit and are modifying theirs like I did mine.  I'm helping them with the dismanteling of them and the sourcing for the passive radiators.

These speaker sound so fantastic as side surrounds!  I'm glad I was persistant with trying to figure out how to mount them.

MIke

Oliver,

Visit my website and see how I modified mine using passive radiators.  They are awesome and look beautiful in my HT living room.

Not too difficult to build either.

Mike

www.SpeakerHobby.com

Since I've posted my redesign of the Redline 60s last year, several people in several countries have used my design and modification and have been very pleased with their results.  Below is an email I just received from another Redline owner that used my passive radiator modification and he is experiencing lower and tighter bass now.  He only used the design in is Redline 60; not his 60.2.

Cut & Pasted:

[Quote] Mike,

Both sets of speakers are rebuilt and back up and running. They sound fantastic. Although their looks are identical and the drivers are the same the difference in bass reflex designs and two very differently designed crossovers makes the speakers sound completely different from one another.

The 60's with the radiators really deliver the bass better than the 60.2. The 60.2's on the other hand deliver a little better at the higher end.

Either way I am happy and getting the speakers off the floor in my living room just adds the extra touch. The other set which I will use in my other living room I plan to hang from the ceiling.

I have picture of all the work and will set up a Picassa Photo page since I already have an account there in a day or so and send you the link.

Thank You so much again for all your help. As it turns out several new threads have popped up on Beoworld regarding the RL60's and ABR foam rot and general rebuilds. Cooldude and myself both plugged your passive radiator design. [End Quote]

When I posted my design, my results could sound biased.  When you read the results from someone else that has also duplicated my design, that affords some credibility.  I hope that this can help others with their Redline 60s.  I have full pictorial and text instructions on my website to help you.

Thanks guys,

Mike

Many folks have come to me for help to convert their Redlines using my redesign and replacment of the failed ABRs.  I have been asked to sell them woofers and tweeters because some have burnt crossovers and have been overdriven. 

I've sold several drivers now.  I have been buying speakers that look like they have been taken care of and remove the drivers and test them.  If they aren't in good shape or look bad, I throw them away.  I am in the states and am selling them for $70.00 each plus shipping.  Tweeters and woofers are the same price. 

My last sale was to a fellow that had the 60.2 and his drivers were exactly the same as the drivers I removed from a pair of RL60s.

I'm now selling other new subwoofers and the newly designed Audience A3 3" full range drivers.

Mike   www.SpeakerHobby.com