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Latest post 02-07-2008 2:20 PM by saf. 56 replies.
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  • 02-04-2008 5:16 PM In reply to

    Re: Your thoughts please!

    My thoughts on all this:

    I am not familiar with the old Beoworld site. I can't compare the old and the new, but I have to say I really enjoy this site and look at it nearly every day. I've read on the Dutch forum that Ed has been a moderator for 4 years and I think it's really sad that his long involvement has come to an end this way. My reactions on Ed's points:

    * BeoWorld only cares about numbers and statistics
    I hardly see any numbers and statistics on the forum. I am pretty certain that the moderators discuss these figures every once in a while, though. My own statistics indicate that I post more on the general forum than on the Dutch forum. I like the ability to talk to people all over the world about B&O and the general forum is best suited for that purpose. I do look at the Dutch and German forum to see what's going on there, however.

    * We only care about what Bang & Olufsen think, and are not acting as an independent site
    I think this is not true. On most threads one can read positve and less favourable reviews about B&O and the products they make. That's a good thing I believe. If Struer is watching, they know what their most dedicated clients think.

    * PrizeDrawBot has a villa in Monaco, and spraying a BeoLab 2 Lamborghini White is too "bling bling" - this is BeoWorld now..
    PrizeDrawBot whereabouts were unknown till now. He could have picked a worse spot than Monaco! I for one am really happy for him. I can understand that the word Lamborghini sounds a bit "bling bling", but does that really matter? If you want to spray your Beolab 2 in a colour you like, why not? B&O offers a range of colours for most products, but you can only have the Beolab 2 in grey. Perhaps this will ring some bells in Struer: more colours for the Beolab 2, please!

    * The Prize Draw is draining funds too much, and is not working. This could finish the site.
    This is really up to Lee. I'm pretty confident he knows what he's doing. I am sure a lot of goldmembers really enjoy this.

    Beoworld's twenty-eighth ninth prize winner and fifty-first second prize winner. Best £30 I've ever spent!

  • 02-04-2008 5:32 PM In reply to

    • SWISS_2
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-16-2007
    • Neuchatel, Suisse
    • Posts 552
    • Gold Member

    Re: Your thoughts please!

    I for one am sad to see Eduard or any member leave BEOWORLD. I read some minor complaint recently from another Dutch member which I hope was not one of the reasons for leaving.

    Some of us get busy, or distracted, and many things ( family, business, travel ) can lead to less time to contribute as a unpaid, uncompensated moderator. It is a voluntary duty afterall, as was his departure.

    I frankly hope Eduard returns someday, and would suggest leaving the door open and a warm light in the window for him. 

  • 02-04-2008 5:34 PM In reply to

    • Dillen
    • Top 10 Contributor
    • Joined on 02-14-2007
    • Copenhagen / Denmark
    • Posts 5,008
    • Founder

    Re: Your thoughts please!

    A forum is what the members make of it.
    Any forum member complaining about the contents of the forum hasn't
    understood its purpose. At least that how I see it.
    The members are free to choose what sounds like interesting reading and what not.

    I have met a lot of nice people here and as I have been collecting B&O for more than 30 years, this place is to me like sent from heaven.
    I am a paying gold member and has just renewed my membership.
    I am not here for the prize draw - even if it could be fun to win something - but merely for the fun, really.

    Besides, Lee is not alone. Other members have put in prizes for quiz'es at the forum as well, also at no cost to Beoworld.

    Martin

  • 02-04-2008 10:32 PM In reply to

    Re: Your thoughts please!

    I would prefer shifting resources from the price draws to improve the site. I.e. the photo gallery is what I miss most. Maybe just for a few month. What we have right now looks like a very good start but it seems we stopped right before the finish. I do not care so much about Blog, but pictures would be really awesome.

     

    I think for the numbers and stats, I do not know how you guys interact among the moderators. The little bits of stats that we discussed in the forum was appropriate.

     

     For the remainder, I think B&O is openly discussed, from firing the CEO to product quality or new developments.

     

     

     

    BS9000, BS2300, BC2, BL2500, BL3, Bl2, BS1, BV8, BC4, A8

  • 02-05-2008 3:53 AM In reply to

    • Thomas
    • Top 500 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on 04-16-2007
    • Norway
    • Posts 85
    • Founder

    Re: Your thoughts please!

    Hi Lee,

    I do not agree with Eduard in any of his points.  I have followed the site for many years now and it have brought me many hours of enjoyment. 

    It is truly a Bang & olufsen fan site where we thankfully are free to voice our praise or critisism freely

    A big thanks to you and all moderating team for the time effort and recources you have put into the site.

    I for one plan to stay gold member for a long time!

    Thomas

    7-40 Mk3, Beo5/Beo4, Avant32DVD, BS3K, PentaIII, BL4K, BL Active w/BL2500, Avant28CTV,Beoport, AppleTV, 2xBC6K

  • 02-05-2008 12:57 PM In reply to

    Re: Your thoughts please!

    I am very sad that Eduard is going to leave the forum, well as a moderator at least. I always enjoyed his expert writing and his critical but constructive view on B&O products.

    Regarding Beoworld not being an independent site: well, I think, we the members, are Beoworld. We can openly voice our opinions and as long as they are not being censored I think this is as independent as it can get. 

    Regarding the Bling-Bling: it made me smile and I can see Eduard's point. OTOH you often have to be a little crazy or very afficionado to buy certain B&O products when perfectly knowing that you can get a better product for less money. Personally I do not consider myself either crazy nor afficionado, I'm trying to be as reasonable as possible when buying B&O. That's why last week I have spent 10'000 Euros on a Loewe TV and not on a BV7.

    Regarding numbers and statistics: again, I understand Eduard. But times have changed and Beoworld, too. I think the quality and services of the forum has increased and it's only fair that Lee can operate the site without losing money.

    Regarding prize draw: being a lucky winner myself I have no problem with that. However if it was given up I wouldn't have a problem with that.

    The only thing that bothers me is the lack of great topics and news. But that's because B&O are neglecting us with supplying new, talk-of-the-town products. Instead they just warm-up old stuff like the BV4 and BV7 MKIIXMIIXII or rebadge some cheap Samsung products. B&O when will you wake up?

     

  • 02-05-2008 12:58 PM In reply to

    • Alex
    • Top 25 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-16-2007
    • Bath & Cardiff, UK
    • Posts 2,990
    • Bronze Member

    Re: Your thoughts please!

    I disagree with all of the points except the last one about the prize draw.

    Others have said they're not worried and believe Lee knows what he's doing. Well, I do too. What I'm worried about is that Lee may be being too polite and to worried to let down members by having to cut back on the prizes.

    Even if the top prize was a BeoSound 3 or similar each month, it would still be one of the best prize draws I've seen. Personally I'd feel a little safer about BeoWorld's future if the prizes weren't quite as extravagant as they are now.

    Just my 2cents.

     Weekly top artists:                   

  • 02-05-2008 1:19 PM In reply to

    • Puncher
    • Top 10 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on 03-27-2007
    • Nr. Durham, NE England.
    • Posts 9,588
    • Founder

    Re: Your thoughts please!

    Alex:

    I disagree with all of the points except the last one about the prize draw.

    Others have said they're not worried and believe Lee knows what he's doing. Well, I do too. What I'm worried about is that Lee may be being too polite and to worried to let down members by having to cut back on the prizes.

    Even if the top prize was a BeoSound 3 or similar each month, it would still be one of the best prize draws I've seen. Personally I'd feel a little safer about BeoWorld's future if the prizes weren't quite as extravagant as they are now.

    Just my 2cents.

    Just to be certain maybe you should return your Lab4'sBig Smile

    Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.

  • 02-05-2008 1:25 PM In reply to

    Re: Your thoughts please!

    I dont care what Eduard thinks and says. It seems to me he was clutching at straws to justify his reason for not wanting to moderate anymore.

     I don't agree with any of his points, infact i can't wait until the first prize in future draws is a BV7. SmileSmileWink 

    Never Mind The Ball-Cocks www.markmossplumbing.co.uk

    A labourer uses his hands
    A tradesman uses his hands and his head
    A craftsman uses his hands, his head and his heart

  • 02-05-2008 3:06 PM In reply to

    Re: Your thoughts please!

    Well done Eduard for a great response to your reasons for not wanting to moderate anymore. I hope you continue to be a valued member of Beoworld. Thanks for explaining your thinking.

    Never Mind The Ball-Cocks www.markmossplumbing.co.uk

    A labourer uses his hands
    A tradesman uses his hands and his head
    A craftsman uses his hands, his head and his heart

  • 02-05-2008 3:26 PM In reply to

    • Jandyt
    • Top 10 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on 04-01-2007
    • Clitheroe, Lancashire, UK
    • Posts 13,004
    • Founder

    Re: Your thoughts please!

    Yes, I agree. Thanks for responding Ed and I'm glad you are still on site.
    Miss your brilliant avatars though!

    Andy T.

    Poor me, never win owt!

  • 02-05-2008 3:36 PM In reply to

    Re: Your thoughts please!

    A+ for eduard.....

    all sold!

  • 02-05-2008 3:47 PM In reply to

    Re: Your thoughts please!

    Eduard, I can see your point and I can respect your decision. I look forward to your input as a member of Beoworld in the future.

    Beoworld's twenty-eighth ninth prize winner and fifty-first second prize winner. Best £30 I've ever spent!

  • 02-05-2008 10:30 PM In reply to

    Re: Your thoughts please!

    yes, it seems a very reasonable explanation. I don't consider the site bling bling though, I think it is pretty normal.

     

    That said, can we have a vote on the prices. Maybe we just do 5 then 10, have one highlight rather then 3. For this month draw I would think the Beo5 would be a neat 1st price and 1 an 2 could be pushed into future month.

     I really do believe strongly that the prices are overdone. Is a nice gesture but for me it had nothing to do if I become gold or silver. 

     

     

    BS9000, BS2300, BC2, BL2500, BL3, Bl2, BS1, BV8, BC4, A8

  • 02-06-2008 3:45 AM In reply to

    • kawo
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-17-2007
    • Posts 516
    • Founder

    Re: Your thoughts please!

    Eduard, thank you for puting some more light on this discussion. At least for me, this put your thoughts in a different perspective! However, for me at some point hard to comment as most of us do not have the insides of the moderators communication, but I fully understand your thoughts.

    Please still be a part of beoworld! 

    Karsten 

     

    _________________________________________________________________________

    BV4-50, Beosystem 3, Beolab 5, Beolab 3, BV3-32, BV1, BS9000, Beolab 4, Beolab 2000, Beo4 Cinema

  • 02-06-2008 5:01 AM In reply to

    Re: Your thoughts please!

    I am very surprised to have read that Ed has left his post as a moderator on BeoWorld, as I am sure that everything B&O and BeoWorld too, is something special to him, as it is for many of us.

    I would prefer not to comment on any of the reasons of Ed's departure as a moderator for the site. His decission was entirely up to him and I am nobody to argue for or against his reasons, as they could easily be understood in many different ways.

    I have every faith that BeoWorld is being managed well by Lee and his team. I very much hope Ed remains his usual character on the forums and that he does not leave BeoWorld.

  • 02-07-2008 5:05 AM In reply to

    • deaddruid
    • Top 500 Contributor
    • Joined on 05-24-2007
    • Malvern, Worcestershire
    • Posts 247
    • Founder

    Re: Your thoughts please!

    Eduard,

    I am glad you have not left the site, since I've always found your posts helpful (or at least interesting!). Please remember that it is only by keeping people with differing views on the site, that it can remain balanced - in other words, if your comments are accurate, then your presence is necessary.

    Regarding prizes - I took a gold membership because Lee was very straight with me about the benefits of gold. My financial justification was that for the cost of two manuals on eBay, I would get access to manuals as I need them, support a forum which I want to see survive, and have a small chance of winning something unexpected. If the prizes were to cease, I would still renew in 2008, because I want to support a forum which has given me the support I needed.

    The prize draw adds excitement and interest. It is a focal point for the BeoWorld "family" every month, and I would hate to see the loss of that social event. On the other hand, some draws (such as the March 2008 one) seem to have an excess of high value prizes. Of course, there is nothing to stop us from offering to donate prizes - assuming Lee is willing to accept them!

    Mark 

  • 02-07-2008 9:34 AM In reply to

    Re: Your thoughts please!

    I hope he stay's, but something blocking him!!

  • 02-07-2008 9:57 AM In reply to

    Re: Your thoughts please!

    In the Netherlands we have two porsche clubs

    One high nosed posh club with mainly new "showing of" cars - with drivers which never opens the engine compartment

    Another one "a poor mans version" with general older models full of interisting people loving getting their hands dirty .

    Maybe making something similiar is needed for beoworld ?

    What I personaly hate most on the site - is the answer "GO AND ASK YOUR LOCAL B&O DEALER"

    I can (and will not) pay the new price B&O equipment which look like space ships and is not even technological up in front - I understand that B&O need to differentiate their market and there new product will never be intended for me. Respect for that. However, we (ordinary people) secondhand users of B&O is definitely helping them maintaining their heritage and good name - by assisting in keeping so much elderly equipment runing.

    I therefore strongly suggest that they support us - maybe by donating a monthly gift/price to the site.Idea

     A Jacob Jensen fan

  • 02-07-2008 10:52 AM In reply to

    Re: Your thoughts please!

    Erik-nl:

    In the Netherlands we have two porsche clubs

    One high nosed posh club with mainly new "showing of" cars - with drivers which never opens the engine compartment

    Another one "a poor mans version" with general older models full of interisting people loving getting their hands dirty .

    Maybe making something similiar is needed for beoworld ?

    Good suggestion Erik. It's not to say that someone who owns a Beovision 5 HD won't own a Beomaster 1000 and vice versa, but as someone whose latest B&O product is a 2003 Avant, I tend to be more interested in the older stuff and I sometimes find that discussion relating to these products is spread across the general/vintage/workbench/beogram forums. Conversely, it seems that the majority of posts about current (and let's be honest, too expensive for many of the second-hand fans here) products are confined to the General forum. With the General forum being most prominent, I often find that I have to scroll all the way down to the other forums to search for interesting posts, and this scrolling by its very nature puts off some people from visiting and posting in these forums compared to the general one. Perhaps the introduction of a photo gallery accessible to all will provide more of an outlet for those who want to show off their latest (brand-new) acquisitions - or could we keep the general forum more 'general' by adding a 'current/new products forum or deleting some of the beogram/vintage forums so that posts relating to these subjects appear in the general interest one?

    I really don't mean to create a 'them and us' situation here. We all love B&O, otherwise we wouldn't be here, but maybe a little tweaking with the other forums wouldn't go amiss?!

     

    President, Beomaster 8000 Appreciation Society

  • 02-07-2008 11:32 AM In reply to

    • h1npw
    • Top 75 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-16-2007
    • A cricket ball throw from Trent Bridge
    • Posts 776
    • Founder

    Re: Your thoughts please!

    I think the last 2 posts are very relevant............as John says, without wanting to promote an us and them site, I think there are 2 distinct types of interest that visit the site and it would be worthwhile considering catering for the 2 groups in a more distinct and even way than at present.

    With regards to Eduards views - for the site to be successful it will have to look to continually improve and keep "raising the bar". The moderators should indeed be focused on the KPIs regarding member numbers and general activity levels. At the same time Lee has to strike a very very careful balance of marketing and self (meaning the moderating team) congratulatory posts not to turn members off and for the site not to become too commercial. I think the idea of a seperate KPI page is also worth considering.

    With regards to the independancy of the site I can't agree with Ed's view of   "that if they give Beoworld moderators team a lot of information, the moderator team can never be independent. They have to say thank you and that's it". 

    Thay may have to say thank you - doesn't mean that the moderators or the members have to agree!!!  I think recent posts have demonstrated that beyond doubt.

    You're keeping very quiet Peter - What are your thoughts?

     Cheers

    Nigel   

  • 02-07-2008 12:33 PM In reply to

    • Daniel
    • Top 50 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-17-2007
    • Svinarp, Sweden
    • Posts 1,284
    • Founder

    Re: Your thoughts please!

    Erik-nl:

    What I personaly hate most on the site - is the answer "GO AND ASK YOUR LOCAL B&O DEALER"

    But sometimes that answer is the correct answer. And even if you haven´t bought something from the dealer and maybe never will buy something you´r still free to ask them questions. A dealer would be a complete idiot if he doesn´t see a potential costumer.

    Erik-nl:
     

    I therefore strongly suggest that they support us - maybe by donating a monthly gift/price to the site

    That wouldn´t benefit BeoWorld as a free site independent from Struer. For an example a moderator could censor a post just to avoid upsetting them. 

    Beovision LX5500, BeoCord V6000, BeoSound 9000, BeoLab 8000, BeoLab 3500, BeoLab 2000, BeoVox1, BeoCom 6000, Form1, LightControl 1

  • 02-07-2008 12:43 PM In reply to

    • Puncher
    • Top 10 Contributor
      Male
    • Joined on 03-27-2007
    • Nr. Durham, NE England.
    • Posts 9,588
    • Founder

    Re: Your thoughts please!

    h1npw:

    I think the last 2 posts are very relevant............as John says, without wanting to promote an us and them site, I think there are 2 distinct types of interest that visit the site and it would be worthwhile considering catering for the 2 groups in a more distinct and even way than at present.

    With regards to Eduards views - for the site to be successful it will have to look to continually improve and keep "raising the bar". The moderators should indeed be focused on the KPIs regarding member numbers and general activity levels. At the same time Lee has to strike a very very careful balance of marketing and self (meaning the moderating team) congratulatory posts not to turn members off and for the site not to become too commercial. I think the idea of a seperate KPI page is also worth considering.

    With regards to the independancy of the site I can't agree with Ed's view of   "that if they give Beoworld moderators team a lot of information, the moderator team can never be independent. They have to say thank you and that's it". 

    Thay may have to say thank you - doesn't mean that the moderators or the members have to agree!!!  I think recent posts have demonstrated that beyond doubt.

    You're keeping very quiet Peter - What are your thoughts?

     Cheers

    Nigel   

    In truth I would expect the Moderating team to maintain a neutral stance with regard to the company, neither overly for or against. I happen to believe that is pretty much what we have at the moment, I don't see any particular B&O presense or influence on the site, the forum content is unmoderated (excluding the obvious abuse, liable etc) and B&O get heavily critisised at times  - there is no attempt to edit these posts and therefore the forum is the voice of BeoWorld - not Lee or Peter.

    Generally speaking, you aren't learning much if your lips are moving.

  • 02-07-2008 12:46 PM In reply to

    • saf
    • Top 150 Contributor
    • Joined on 04-17-2007
    • Posts 458
    • Founder

    Re: Your thoughts please!

    Funny you mention this guys (ie the two distinct groups, ala Porsche clubs). I for one have been actually surprised: I’ve always had an impression that the member’s disposable incomes (or any stereotype socio-demographics for that matter) were definitely not being in the forefront on the Forum. If I noticed any differences between members it has been more like, eg:

     

    a group of very B&O-knowledgeable people (where I do not belong)

    a group of  people chasing the latest thing (where I do not belong)

    a group of great collectors (where I do not belong),

    a group of  sound & vision experts (where I do not belong),

    a group of  fantastic linguists (where I do not belong)

    a group of people you can’t outwit (where I do not belong)

    a group of people who always behave (where I do not belong)

    a group of people … etc. etc.

     

    Somehow I feel great here though I apparently do not belong … I guess the greatest thing (up to a point) is to be tolerated by others. It gives a lot of inspiration to become more tolerant and listen to others – and I’m still learning. Personally, if this lesson is served as a kind of self-regulating mix of B&O, other subjects and fun – as it seems to me it indeed is - I guess it’s not so bad at all(, Lee.)

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