BeoSound 5 Forum

Re: BeoMaster 5 Hardware specs

kimhav — Thu, 05 Mar 2009 12:19:56 GMT

Agree; googling the net several also agrees that the notebook version of the Audigy2 card superior in audio quality. I was just lucky that I could make use of a pc-card since the dedicated BeoPort pc is a tiny box which is half the size bigger than a Mac Mini and PCI-card solution would work out.

Re: BeoMaster 5 Hardware specs

tournedos — Thu, 05 Mar 2009 12:01:50 GMT

kimhav:

Wow! Talk about more rich sound when using the Audigy 2 ZS board. I actually though there would be a difference, but that big. The normal Audigy 2 PCI board uses Cirrus Logic CS4382 and where it seems the notebook version make use of the Cirrus Logic CS4398 DAC instead.

I would expect this to be not so much a function of the actual DAC used, but what happens after it. Many digital designers - like those that would be responsible for most of your notebook motherboard design - are awfully ignorant of the good old analogue electronics and a single wrong choice in components or PCB routing can destroy the end result. Not to mention that a separate sound card is designed and built just for that, without many of the constraints of an integrated solution.

Re: BeoMaster 5 Hardware specs

kimhav — Thu, 05 Mar 2009 11:55:05 GMT

Alex:
Just found this.

From what it seems, the AD1852 seems to be quite difficult to implement correctly, but when it's done correctly it's a very high performance chip.

Don't you do stuff like this Punch?

Thanks for the link; speaking about DACs since I'm using a VIA Tech board in my BeoPort solution I got my self a Audigy 2 ZS Notebook card to see how big difference there is and.... Wow! Talk about more rich sound when using the Audigy 2 ZS board. I actually though there would be a difference, but that big. The normal Audigy 2 PCI board uses Cirrus Logic CS4382 and where it seems the notebook version make use of the Cirrus Logic CS4398 DAC instead.

Re: BeoMaster 5 Hardware specs

Alex — Sun, 08 Feb 2009 06:44:56 GMT

Fair enough - I have never really played with electronics like you have so bow to your knowledge of the chip.

As for sound performance of the BeoSound 5 - bar the occasional song B&O supplies with the dealer versions which I know, I don't really have anything I can judge it's quality by. I'm in the process of setting up a media server in Bath which is going to provide us with a source of Lossless audio for our BeoSound 5 which is now running the final software. I'll do some listening when I've got all the music on the BeoSound 5, but from what I can tell by the songs which are available already, it's quite a smooth but detailed sounder. Does a very good job of highlighting the difference between a 128kbps and 256 kbps radio station...

Re: BeoMaster 5 Hardware specs

Puncher — Sat, 07 Feb 2009 05:04:32 GMT

Alex:

Very scathing!

I wasn't trying to "dis" anyone, I'm sure there are some very knowledgable folk at loose on the hifi forums, alas there are also a lot whose enthusiasm outstrips theirs. You will have read enough stuff about cables, jitter and pyramids/crystals etc to know this is true. The trouble is trying to filter out the "noise" to reach the real factual stuff. Just imagine all of the pseudo-science written about cables and then scale that up to the realms of DAC performance/implementation and the extra scope this brings to baffle the innocent. It's also not unkown for enthusiasts to go to the ends of the earth to solve problems that aren't audible (although they will disagree).

When I said "real" product, imagine B&O approaching Analog Devices and telling them they're using the AD1852 in a new product - the AD engineers will be happy to get involved and offer suggestions and help in achieveing the end result, after all the BM5 is from a manufacturer with a worldwide reputation. The "reputation" of Analog Devices' component itself is likely to be discussed when the product is released (and, funnily enough, here we are). We know the data sheets are available to all on the Analog Devices website but I would personally be amazed if they weren't able to give extra snippets of application advice above and beyond what is pulished on the website.

I hope that's not too scathing

Re: BeoMaster 5 Hardware specs

Alex — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 15:11:02 GMT

Very scathing!

Re: BeoMaster 5 Hardware specs

Puncher — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 13:48:01 GMT

Alex:

Just found this.

From what it seems, the AD1852 seems to be quite difficult to implement correctly, but when it's done correctly it's a very high performance chip.

Don't you do stuff like this Punch?

More a power man myself - I think the difference is if you're working on a "real" product then you speak directly to the manufacturers rather than enthusiasts forums for implementation advice (there will generally be less fairy dust in the reply too)

Re: BeoMaster 5 Hardware specs

Alex — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 11:01:06 GMT

True, but I don't believe DACs have really moved forwards since then. After all, the DAC in the CD5500 & Co is 20 years old now and still highly regarded.

Re: BeoMaster 5 Hardware specs

Peter — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 10:50:23 GMT

Not exactly cutting edge!! The conversation you point to occurred in 2002!

Re: BeoMaster 5 Hardware specs

Alex — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 10:31:28 GMT

Just found this.

From what it seems, the AD1852 seems to be quite difficult to implement correctly, but when it's done correctly it's a very high performance chip.

Don't you do stuff like this Punch?

Re: BeoMaster 5 Hardware specs

Puncher — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 10:05:05 GMT

Exactly - it is a good quality, inexpensive part, available to all. Since B&O no longer publish circuit schematics we will never know if their particular inplementation varies in any significant way from the manufacturers published reference designs.

Re: BeoMaster 5 Hardware specs

soundproof — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 09:30:59 GMT

AD1852 is a great chip, available from Analog Devices at the astonishing price of USD 8.10 if you buy more than 100.

http://www.analog.com/en/digital-to-analog-converters/audio-da-converters/AD1852/products/product.html

Re: BeoMaster 5 Hardware specs

Alex — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 08:51:35 GMT

Exactly, not one built into the motherboard.

On top of this, there are very few companies actually manufacturing microchips, I expect you'd find a surprising number of high-end companies all share very very similar components. For example, Naim have been known to use Burr-Brown converts, but what really makes the difference is how it's implemented.

Re: BeoMaster 5 Hardware specs

Puncher — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 08:26:28 GMT

Alex:

The audio chips in the motherboard aren't used, B&O uses their own...

The converter is an Analog Devices AD1852

Re: BeoMaster 5 Hardware specs

Alex — Fri, 06 Feb 2009 05:59:09 GMT

The audio chips in the motherboard aren't used, B&O uses their own...