The Beo5 & Beo6 Remote Forum

Re: Beo5 and Philips TV

Keith Saunders — Tue, 10 Aug 2010 14:38:17 GMT

I have decoded your BeamIT remote and I can confirm it uses "Pulse Distance Encoding" using 80 micro second pulses with a typical pulse train of 13.5 milli-seconds

B&O remotes use the same type of encoding method, but the pulses are 270 micro seconds and the overall pulse train is about 140 milli seconds using a totally different protocol.

I have re-produced your BeamIT binary string on the Beo5 which works, but you will need to test it.

I will be sending you an XML file for test tomorrow.

Re: Beo5 and Philips TV

Hangglider — Tue, 10 Aug 2010 13:54:55 GMT

Hi Keiths,

I feared, that this Feller remote is very speicific. I did another test with a Logitech Remote today. It is the model 895 with IR and RF transmitter. With this model I could setup the Feller and it worked. Maybe this could help you to find a solution.

Again, thank you very much for your work!

Hangglider

Re: Beo5 and Philips TV

Keith Saunders — Sat, 07 Aug 2010 06:49:19 GMT

Hangglider,

Your Feller BeamIT remote arrived this morning.

I did a quick 10 minute review of it and I can see why Lintronic and everyone else has been having problems and also why the B&O supplied XML will never work and I guess it was not tested unless it is intended for a different Feller remote.

This remote appears to use an "Unmodulated" signal, in other words there is no carrier frequency which is a big problem for most receivers because the normal way of determining the "pulse" size is to count the carrier frequency periods which in this case cannot be done.

Tomorrow I will do further tests to see if I can come up with a solution to this issue.

Re: Beo5 and Philips TV

Hangglider — Fri, 30 Jul 2010 08:53:26 GMT

Hi Keith,

Sorry for that, I changed my email account few weeks ago and forgot to change it in my profile.

I just fixed it.

Thanks,

Hangglider

Re: Beo5 and Philips TV

Keith Saunders — Fri, 30 Jul 2010 07:19:01 GMT

Hangglider,

I tried to send you an e-mail twice, but it gets rejected with the following error:-

"Recipient address rejected: User unknown in virtual alias table"

Re: Beo5 and Philips TV

Keith Saunders — Fri, 30 Jul 2010 06:11:40 GMT

Hangglider,

I have sent you my address by e-mail so you can send the remote.

hangglider:

Just one simple questions: B&O uses 455kHz. Why does it not work to build a configuration, although Feller sends with the same carrier? Is this a propritary B&O frequency and cannot be used for 3rd parties?

Well, in principle you can from a hardware standpoint, but the protocol used by Feller will certainly be different to B&O

Re: Beo5 and Philips TV

Hangglider — Fri, 30 Jul 2010 06:02:35 GMT

Hi Keith and mika,

It is most likely a problem of the carrier frequency. I also just found some indications, that they use 455kHz in this model.

Keith, it would be very useful for me you could analyze it. So, I would like to send you the remote. It is a very simple device with just 4 buttons.

Please send me you address, I might send it next week.

Just one simple questions: B&O uses 455kHz. Why does it not work to build a configuration, although Feller sends with the same carrier? Is this a propritary B&O frequency and cannot be used for 3rd parties?

Thanks,

Hangglider

Re: Beo5 and Philips TV

Keith Saunders — Fri, 30 Jul 2010 05:05:39 GMT

Hangglider.

The key to this issue in my view in Carrier Frequency.

The Feller's XML file produced by B&O used a 36Khz carrier frequency which is correct for RC6 protocol.

The Beo5 and most IR signal converters have a Carrier Frequency range of between 30 and 80 Khz.

If Feller's uses a carrier frequency outside the 30 to 80 Khz carrier frequency range then the Beo5 will NOT be able to control it.

If you are willing to send me your original remote I will test it and give you a clear answer.

Re: Beo5 and Philips TV

tournedos — Fri, 30 Jul 2010 04:57:25 GMT

hangglider:

I contacted Feller to give me this information, but they were not willing to make this data public. So I gave up. In the meantime I used the original remote.

The silliness of some manufacturers... nothing prevents anyone from just using an IR phototransistor and an oscilloscope to find it out anyway.

However, according to this link Feller uses 455 kHz carrier - which is the same as B&O, but unfortunately also means that Beo5 can't send it, if the information above in this thread still holds.

Another point is also interesting. Few months ago, I bought a Marmitek PowermidXL which transforms the IR signal to RF and back. So you are able to control a device through walls. The specification says, that all remotes are working except B&O. But after several tests I noticed, that Feller is also not working.

...and this also seems to support the 455 kHz theory.

Re: Beo5 and Philips TV

Hangglider — Fri, 30 Jul 2010 04:27:58 GMT

Hi Keith,

Thank you for the answer.

The problem is, that I`m not able to capture a command. The whole story alreday begun two years ago. Then I wanted to use a Lintronic box to convert BEO5 commands to the Feller commands. I was in contact with Michael Lindgaard from Lintronic. I sent him the Feller remote, so he could test, if it is possible to detect the commands. He said, he is also not able to detect the signal, therefore he would need frequency information about the product. I contacted Feller to give me this information, but they were not willing to make this data public. So I gave up. In the meantime I used the original remote.

Another point is also interesting. Few months ago, I bought a Marmitek PowermidXL which transforms the IR signal to RF and back. So you are able to control a device through walls. The specification says, that all remotes are working except B&O. But after several tests I noticed, that Feller is also not working.

Would there be another possibility to capture a command?

Thank you,

Hangglider

Re: Beo5 and Philips TV

Keith Saunders — Fri, 30 Jul 2010 04:00:46 GMT

Hello Hangglider,

I have reviewed and tested the Feller Beamit XML file and it uses Philips RC6 32 bit protocol.

When I reviewed the Feller's web site I noted that they have more than one version of remote control which may use different protocols.

The only way to be certain if there is an error or it is a different remote is if you can capture one or two commands from your original Feller remote and post them and I should be able to determine if an error has been made or its for a different Feller's remote.

Re: Beo5 and Philips TV

Hangglider — Fri, 30 Jul 2010 01:53:44 GMT

Hi together,

I installed version 3.87 yesterday and was surprised, that the XML file for the Feller Beamit is included. Immediately, I added the device to my configuration, but it did not work. I tried every button for toggelling, switching on and off the lights, but without success.

Has anyone tried to use this device as well?

Thanks and best regards,

hangglider

Re: Beo5 and Philips TV

Burnix — Tue, 12 May 2009 05:14:56 GMT

tournedos:

447,5 kHz versus 455 kHz is a difference of less than 2% so that should be no problem

True, but the problem is that 3PTY is limited to 20-80 kHz... i.e. you cannot (to my knowledge) make a e.g. RAW that uses 455 kHz.
The only protocol allowed to use this frequency is B&Os own protocol because then the on-time for the IR diode is known. With e.g. the RAW format, the on-time for the diodes are variable and that could cause the diodes to break due to too much power (too long on-time).

So - I doubt that you will succeed in making a third-party XML that will work with 455 kHz.

Br,
Burnix

Re: Beo5 and Philips TV

tournedos — Tue, 12 May 2009 04:46:28 GMT

447,5 kHz versus 455 kHz is a difference of less than 2% so that should be no problem - I have a self made AVR microcontroller based IR project, which due to software timing issues can send either at around 420 kHz or 480 kHz, not between. It can control B&O devices with no problem, only the range is reduced quite a bit compared to lower carriers which can produced accurately.

The transmitter diodes are just the same for all carriers - it is what's driving them that decides the carrier (the diodes can have different IR wavelengths, but that is a completely different matter - and again, mismatch problems would just reduce the range and sensitivity, not completely prevent the control from working). I have absolutely no idea of the internal design of Beo 5, but it is possible that they have fixed hardware taking care of sending B&O control codes at 455 kHz, so it would be difficult or impossible to use that carrier for sending other protocols. The 455 kHz probably has a separate output stage (and transmitter diode) anyway because the on/off timings are so far from the others, and the power amp design needs to be different for efficiency.

Some equipment uses radio frequency control at 4xx megahertz which the Beo 5 nor the Lintronic receiver obviously know nothing about, and this might create confusion since the numbers look the same, but I suppose this isn't the case now...

Re: Beo5 and Philips TV

KibitoCH — Tue, 12 May 2009 04:00:25 GMT

hmm interesting, B&O Switzerland is trying to get it to work quite a while (directly with Denmark). i tryed to capture it with the Lintronic Box but it dident work. it doesent show up. the box isent showing anything at all.