The Beo5 & Beo6 Remote Forum

Re: XML generator tool

eljefe — Mon, 09 Feb 2009 12:10:56 GMT

Keith Saunders:

Let me explain in much greater detail.

We have established that your Pioneer screen uses NEC protocol and that the carrier frequency used is 40 Khz and the commands in the file you sent to me from Pioneer are for your screen. I said what about the product address ?

With the NEC protocol, the product address can be in one of two forms, standard addressing ( 8 bit addressing ) and extended addressing ( 16 bit addressing) 16 bit addressing provides 65,000 different addresses and 8 bit addressing provides 256 addresses. I previously said that it provided 128 possible addresses, but that was an error on my part, I was 1 bit out, it is 256, 0 to 255

The actual infra-red protocol transmission is in the form as below:-

The above diagram shows standard addressing where you have the address followed by the address inverted.

With the extended address there is no inverted address and all 16 bits make up the full address.

It is likely that Pioneer are using extended addressing because most manufacturers do today because a lot of users have products from many companies in their setup and they want to be sure which product is being addressed.

So, if they are using extended addressing then there is 65,000 possible different addresses, so as previously stated you only have two ways to find the product address:-

Ask Pioneer what it is remembering they will use a different address for each Pioneer product

Capture one command from your remote and decode the address

The reason we provide the XML Generator to convert from the Lintronic timings is that we don't have to decode each NEC protocol and find its address which would take a lot of work.

thanks for the info. Really helpfull.

Still don't quite understand why this is concerning this Pioneer product when it doesn't affect my squeezebox for example.

And if this Product Address is important why isn't it incorporated in the code I got? And where do I plot it in if I can get it?

I have a friend who has a Philips remote and the same tv. I will get him to try and learn a couple of codes. Where does he see what the product address is?

Re: XML generator tool

Keith Saunders — Mon, 09 Feb 2009 12:03:50 GMT

Let me explain in much greater detail.

We have established that your Pioneer screen uses NEC protocol and that the carrier frequency used is 40 Khz and the commands in the file you sent to me from Pioneer are for your screen. I said what about the product address ?

With the NEC protocol, the product address can be in one of two forms, standard addressing ( 8 bit addressing ) and extended addressing ( 16 bit addressing) 16 bit addressing provides 65,000 different addresses and 8 bit addressing provides 256 addresses. I previously said that it provided 128 possible addresses, but that was an error on my part, I was 1 bit out, it is 256, 0 to 255

The actual infra-red protocol transmission is in the form as below:-

The above diagram shows standard addressing where you have the address followed by the address inverted.

With the extended address there is no inverted address and all 16 bits make up the full address.

It is likely that Pioneer are using extended addressing because most manufacturers do today because a lot of users have products from many companies in their setup and they want to be sure which product is being addressed.

So, if they are using extended addressing then there is 65,000 possible different addresses, so as previously stated you only have two ways to find the product address:-

Ask Pioneer what it is remembering they will use a different address for each Pioneer product
Capture one command from your remote and decode the address

The reason we provide the XML Generator to convert from the Lintronic timings is that we don't have to decode each NEC protocol and find its address which would take a lot of work.

Re: XML generator tool

eljefe — Mon, 09 Feb 2009 11:31:20 GMT

Keith Saunders:

Whilst the command for toggle on/off may be AA1C there is also 128 possible product addresses from 0 to 127, so you can have the right command code, but not the correct address. In the file you sent me there was no product address.

Ok, you lost me.. Product address? And can i manually go through them and find out which one?

The file from Pioneer Denmark does not contain any address either. Only the code list for my screen (like AA1C)

Re: XML generator tool

Keith Saunders — Mon, 09 Feb 2009 11:27:44 GMT

Whilst the command for toggle on/off may be AA1C there is also 128 possible product addresses from 0 to 127, so you can have the right command code, but not the correct address. In the file you sent me there was no product address.

Re: XML generator tool

eljefe — Mon, 09 Feb 2009 11:06:02 GMT

Keith Saunders:

eljefe:

I am however pretty sure that the codes I sent you are correct. I got an excel file from Pioneer in denmark with the ir commands as I wrote in my previous post and matched these with the codes online. Isn't this ok to do?

Further, does it have to be a lintronic box? Can it not be a philips learning remote?

What do you mean by the statement:-

I got an excel file from Pioneer in denmark with the ir commands as I wrote in my previous post and matched these with the codes online. Isn't this ok to do?

You said "and matched with the codes online"

The Pronto codes you provided were translated into an NEC protocol which was then added to the XML file in RAW format meaning the infra-red code produced is the exact copy of what would be produced using a Pronto

You don't need a Lintronic box, anything which captures the infra-red is fine, but using the Lintronic box means you can take the captured code and provide it directly to the XML Generator which if you are using the XML Generator you would know.

I realise this part was not very well written.

Here we go: In the file I sent you there are 4 collumns. One with a category, description,commannd and pronto code. I wrote Pioneer here in denmark and they sent me a complete list of commands for my exact model. In the file they sent were only the commands(for example AA1C for toggle on/off). I took these commands and looked at the file I sent you and saw that they were identical and figured that, this would also mean that the hex code in the file I sent you would be the correct ones. Make sense? And is this assumption correct?

Re: XML generator tool

Keith Saunders — Mon, 09 Feb 2009 10:20:03 GMT

eljefe:

I am however pretty sure that the codes I sent you are correct. I got an excel file from Pioneer in denmark with the ir commands as I wrote in my previous post and matched these with the codes online. Isn't this ok to do?

Further, does it have to be a lintronic box? Can it not be a philips learning remote?

What do you mean by the statement:-

I got an excel file from Pioneer in denmark with the ir commands as I wrote in my previous post and matched these with the codes online. Isn't this ok to do?

You said "and matched with the codes online"

The Pronto codes you provided were translated into an NEC protocol which was then added to the XML file in RAW format meaning the infra-red code produced is the exact copy of what would be produced using a Pronto

You don't need a Lintronic box, anything which captures the infra-red is fine, but using the Lintronic box means you can take the captured code and provide it directly to the XML Generator which if you are using the XML Generator you would know.

Re: XML generator tool

eljefe — Mon, 09 Feb 2009 09:56:51 GMT

Keith Saunders:

The best course of action is to get a IR capture product or a Lintronic box then you know for sure you have the correct infra-red codes. After reading further about Pioneers codes its clear they change the codes for almost every product by giving it a different address code, so finding someone with a Pioneer TV almost certainly will not provide you with a solution.

I am however pretty sure that the codes I sent you are correct. I got an excel file from Pioneer in denmark with the ir commands as I wrote in my previous post and matched these with the codes online. Isn't this ok to do?

Further, does it have to be a lintronic box? Can it not be a philips learning remote?

Re: XML generator tool

Keith Saunders — Mon, 09 Feb 2009 09:40:33 GMT

The best course of action is to get a IR capture product or a Lintronic box then you know for sure you have the correct infra-red codes. After reading further about Pioneers codes its clear they change the codes for almost every product by giving it a different address code, so finding someone with a Pioneer TV almost certainly will not provide you with a solution.

Re: XML generator tool

eljefe — Mon, 09 Feb 2009 09:26:13 GMT

Quim43:

Have you tested the xml file making a new configuration or just modifying an old one?

It happened to me, I just modified an old configuration and the new commands didn't overwrite the older ones.

Try to begin from zero, to see if the xml file works on your TV

Good luck

Have tried both. Nothing seems to work

Re: XML generator tool

Quim43 — Mon, 09 Feb 2009 09:09:08 GMT

Have you tested the xml file making a new configuration or just modifying an old one?

It happened to me, I just modified an old configuration and the new commands didn't overwrite the older ones.

Try to begin from zero, to see if the xml file works on your TV

Good luck

Re: XML generator tool

eljefe — Mon, 09 Feb 2009 09:02:24 GMT

Keith Saunders:

eljefe:

Could I maybe persuade you to make an xml file with a couple of codes(like turn on/off) and then make it like you would suggest. this way I would be able to find out if it is my own fault or there is something else wrong.

You can download a test XML file HERE

Doesn't work... Thanks anyway.

Really annoying. I hope there are some other Pioneer TV owners in here who might be able to resolve this problem

Re: XML generator tool

Keith Saunders — Mon, 09 Feb 2009 08:50:06 GMT

eljefe:

Could I maybe persuade you to make an xml file with a couple of codes(like turn on/off) and then make it like you would suggest. this way I would be able to find out if it is my own fault or there is something else wrong.

You can download a test XML file HERE

Re: XML generator tool

eljefe — Mon, 09 Feb 2009 08:30:12 GMT

Keith Saunders:

What version of Beo5 Configuration Tool are you using ?

Version 2.2

Re: XML generator tool

Keith Saunders — Mon, 09 Feb 2009 08:28:22 GMT

What version of Beo5 Configuration Tool are you using ?

Re: XML generator tool

eljefe — Mon, 09 Feb 2009 08:16:11 GMT

Keith Saunders:

eljefe:
I have been trying to do a bit of research on the subject and it seems that the Pioneer Elite models are using high frequencies as carrier so I suspect this to be the problem. I can't however find out what this frequency is

I have had a look at your Pioneer pronto file you uploaded and I can confirm the following points:-

The Hex codes produce a NEC protocol

The second HEX value of 0068 which is equal to 104 decimal is the carrier frequency which comes to 40 Khz (well 39,857 Htz to be exact)

So, assuming these codes you have found are the correct ones for your unit, then you can make the XML file using the Beo5 3rd Party XML Generator setting the Carrier frequency to 40 in the pull down

Hi Keith

Could I maybe persuade you to make an xml file with a couple of codes(like turn on/off) and then make it like you would suggest. this way I would be able to find out if it is my own fault or there is something else wrong.