The Workbench

Re: hmmmmm, glass windows

Søren Mexico — Tue, 27 Sep 2011 20:53:42 GMT

Just got my BM 4000 down from McAllen TX, connected and works like a charm, so now I'm thinking about that one

Leslie:
This weekend I have to spend time to finish these panels Søren. Untill then you have to

Re: hmmmmm, glass windows

Leslie — Tue, 27 Sep 2011 14:34:52 GMT

Søren Mexico:

So Leslie, to save me from more sleepless nights, please hurry

This weekend I have to spend time to finish these panels Søren. Untill then you have to

Re: hmmmmm, glass windows

Leslie — Tue, 27 Sep 2011 14:30:12 GMT

Steffen:
This stuff seems to last forever. I once changed the alu plate on a BG 5500. Almost impossible to get the old one off

I know (did 3 complete 5500 systems, 12 top plates and lots of side plates, just see my muscles)

Steffen:

Anyway -It's nice to see that somebody is working to keep all this lovely old stuff alive

Thank you!

Re: hmmmmm, glass windows

Søren Mexico — Mon, 26 Sep 2011 21:58:33 GMT

Steffen:
As I have mentioned in another thread, B&O should have used the same double-sided tape on the glass panels of the BeoSystem 4500/BC 9x00-series, as they used to fasten the alu panels on the top of the dust covers of the Beograms...This stuff seems to last forever.

I think Leslie has the same tape, what I'm worried about is the black square painted on the glas where the brackets are attached, also if cold blackening the brackets, there normaly is applied an oily liquid to protect and give a deep black look (cold blackening dont get really black) and this oily surface is no good for glue, this and the fore mensioned paint is my worries. Industrial glues are used for gluing rearview mirrors to front windscreens and it hold for years under tuf conditions, but there it is by direct contact, no blackening and no paint.

I've been thinking about this since Leslie started this thread, but I'm sure he has a solution

So Leslie, to save me from more sleepless nights, please hurry

Re: hmmmmm, glass windows

Steffen — Mon, 26 Sep 2011 18:37:31 GMT

Leslie:

I'm aware of that Søren but because of my 40 years experience as a "technician" (as you are) I'm pretty convinced of myself that this will last. On the other hand, I wonder how B&O did their test considering the fact that so many people are stucked with broken glasses

Yes - B&O has certainly had some serious problems with glue/adhesive tape. Maybe it's just not possible to foresee how certain materials behave over the years. You can test under extreme conditions for months -but how the materials behave after 10 or 15 years can be a whole different story.
I guess that nobody expected the 'foam-rot' when they started making foam-sourrounds on speaker drivers in the 80's (or was it earlier?).
It was probably just a matter of reducing costs at the moment.

As I have mentioned in another thread, B&O should have used the same double-sided tape on the glass panels of the BeoSystem 4500/BC 9x00-series, as they used to fasten the alu panels on the top of the dust covers of the Beograms...This stuff seems to last forever. I once changed the alu plate on a BG 5500. Almost impossible to get the old one off

Anyway -It's nice to see that somebody is working to keep all this lovely old stuff alive

Re: hmmmmm, glass windows

Leslie — Sun, 25 Sep 2011 16:56:01 GMT

Have not forgotten you!

Received the glass panels and they look superb. This week I wanna make 12 brackets for 3 pair of glass panels.

Re: hmmmmm, glass windows

Leslie — Sun, 18 Sep 2011 00:46:03 GMT

Søren Mexico:

If I was to make the brackets just for myself, I would do more or less the same Leslie, but for other people I would have to be absolutely sure of the fit and quality, the same goes for the painted base on the glass, how well wil it hold out in combination with the glue, how does it react with cleaners, how with direct sunlight and heat, and all this how does it hold up to ageing.

BTW did you solder or weld the "hump" on the taps.

I'm aware of that Søren but because of my 40 years experience as a "technician" (as you are) I'm pretty convinced of myself that this will last. On the other hand, I wonder how B&O did their test considering the fact that so many people are stucked with broken glasses

Let's wait for the glass panels (probably next week) and I will show you the final results.

Yes Søren, indeed I soldered the "hump".

Re: hmmmmm, glass windows

Søren Mexico — Sat, 17 Sep 2011 20:30:24 GMT

If I was to make the brackets just for myself, I would do more or less the same Leslie, but for other people I would have to be absolutely sure of the fit and quality, the same goes for the painted base on the glass, how well wil it hold out in combination with the glue, how does it react with cleaners, how with direct sunlight and heat, and all this how does it hold up to ageing.

BTW did you solder or weld the "hump" on the taps.

Re: hmmmmm, glass windows

Leslie — Sat, 17 Sep 2011 13:03:22 GMT

Have to say thank you to Bob (Mediabobny) sending me these two clips as a sample for making a "golden" one specially for Mika. Not so hard to make. Using a dremel can be very helpfull!! For the ones who would like to know how long it took to make this special one: less then an hour! So I guess if I'm gonna make 19 more (ordered 10 glass panels) it takes me approx. a day (8 hours) maybe less.

Last but not least, the bracket fits exactly and said "click"

@Paul, not sure if these clips your offering can be used. Call me if you have time.

All suggestions are welcome!

Re: hmmmmm, glass windows

Paul — Sat, 17 Sep 2011 10:01:00 GMT

@Leslie : I a have a box of these clips. Just cut them with a rotary drill in the right shape. total legth= 24 mm height= 15 mm. The "hook" length=14 mm height= 6 mm cap is 4 mm

Re: hmmmmm, glass windows

Leslie — Sat, 17 Sep 2011 08:23:30 GMT

For Lee I would make an exception if I can find an easy/fast way to make these clips *80) for 20 pairs of glass panels(with the same or even better quality. Thats' a challenge

Re: hmmmmm, glass windows

Leslie — Sat, 17 Sep 2011 08:20:30 GMT

tournedos:

Søren Mexico:
The bad news, I can make these funny little brackets, but each one will take me about 1 hour, if we are talking business and I charge my normal price for workshop works, then it wil come to USD 400.00 for one set (4 pcs).

This is pretty much what I was trying to say a number of posts and a few tears ago.

The glass panels themselves are trivial: anybody can walk into a glass shop and consign N pieces of X by Y mm glass of Z mm thickness and they'll probably cost at most 10 euros a piece, depending on how well you want them to finish the edges.

But these silly brackets and their attachment are what will make the difference whether the doors will ever work properly and look good.

The D.I.Y ethos and international goodwill - which I fully support and applaud! - will be good for a pair for two, but unless you have them made in an industrial way, the amount of work needed is linear. Once the joy of discovery and new achievement is over, I don't think anybody will want to spend more than a day or two of his life helping random people save 50 euros of their money. (But if yes, I'll be in line if I ever need a pair!)

You could probably send a sample to some manufacturing agent in China and have 100,000 pcs made quite inexpensively (...and risk annoying B&O the company). Even freight is very cheap again due to the recession, plenty of sea containers are sitting on the wrong side of the world - just got a quote for $1 (One. US. Dollar.) for a largish shipment from Guangzhou to Helsinki

All this becomes completely different when the original parts are no longer available, and the choices are to fix it with what ever means you have, or part out / throw away the complete device

EDIT: having said all that, do the brackets need to be like that? Perhaps think them over - I'd love to help but I've never seen these in action

Okay, I hope that everybody understands that the parts I make are NOT for production, just to show you guys that in some cases you can make these parts yourself in a easy way. Just ordered 6 glass panels, so I have to make 12 brackets. So what if I have to spend 12 hours making these brackets. Never mentioned any qty's of hundreds and/or thousands!

It's just the pleasure and satisfaction I have working with metal, glass, cloths, wood and plastic.

Re: hmmmmm, glass windows

Medogsfat — Sat, 17 Sep 2011 06:13:41 GMT

Leslie:

@moderator, can this thread be removed so that all the negative parts can not be read anymore?

The whole thread can be deleted but not just selective (negative) parts - that would be wrong as everyone has the right to an opinion whether we agree with it or not.

Your suggestion of starting another thread on this is probably the best way forward.

Chris.

Re: hmmmmm, glass windows

Leslie — Sat, 17 Sep 2011 04:23:38 GMT

You'll be surprised what I can do making these brackets.

Indeed Mika, does it need to have this shape (brackets). Anyway, working on it!

Pictures next week!

Re: hmmmmm, glass windows

tournedos — Sat, 17 Sep 2011 03:59:03 GMT

Søren Mexico:
The bad news, I can make these funny little brackets, but each one will take me about 1 hour, if we are talking business and I charge my normal price for workshop works, then it wil come to USD 400.00 for one set (4 pcs).

This is pretty much what I was trying to say a number of posts and a few tears ago.

The glass panels themselves are trivial: anybody can walk into a glass shop and consign N pieces of X by Y mm glass of Z mm thickness and they'll probably cost at most 10 euros a piece, depending on how well you want them to finish the edges.

But these silly brackets and their attachment are what will make the difference whether the doors will ever work properly and look good.

The D.I.Y ethos and international goodwill - which I fully support and applaud! - will be good for a pair for two, but unless you have them made in an industrial way, the amount of work needed is linear. Once the joy of discovery and new achievement is over, I don't think anybody will want to spend more than a day or two of his life helping random people save 50 euros of their money. (But if yes, I'll be in line if I ever need a pair!)

You could probably send a sample to some manufacturing agent in China and have 100,000 pcs made quite inexpensively (...and risk annoying B&O the company). Even freight is very cheap again due to the recession, plenty of sea containers are sitting on the wrong side of the world - just got a quote for $1 (One. US. Dollar.) for a largish shipment from Guangzhou to Helsinki

All this becomes completely different when the original parts are no longer available, and the choices are to fix it with what ever means you have, or part out / throw away the complete device

EDIT: having said all that, do the brackets need to be like that? Perhaps think them over - I'd love to help but I've never seen these in action