The Workbench

Re: Beogram 4002 Arm Not Lifting

slowpat — Wed, 16 Feb 2011 13:27:49 GMT

chartz:

Yes, you can be proud. Yet another 4002 saved from the tip!

And I agree with Martin, no problem here, you can tell us who you are!

Yep...will be hanging around beoworld for a while. I normally frequent audiokarma. This was the first B&O TT in my vintage audio collection, and the only other B&O is a basic cassette deck w/ melted belts. I mostly collect Pioneer, Marantz and Sansui. And I'm out in California, USA.

This forum has a lot of international members (all B&O fans of course), and it's been a pleasure seeing all the enthusiasm present in the posts. Thanks again guys...

Patrick

Re: Beogram 4002 Arm Not Lifting

chartz — Wed, 16 Feb 2011 07:51:29 GMT

Yes, you can be proud. Yet another 4002 saved from the tip!

And I agree with Martin, no problem here, you can tell us who you are!

Re: Beogram 4002 Arm Not Lifting

Dillen — Wed, 16 Feb 2011 06:35:02 GMT

Good job !

Don't be a stranger now.

Martin

Re: Beogram 4002 Arm Not Lifting

slowpat — Wed, 16 Feb 2011 00:40:10 GMT

WELL...I am a BELIEVER!!!! I used my c-clip tool to remove the clip and took out the lever, and sure enough, the old grease was caked up in there. The Singer oil drop I applied a few days ago was just floating on top of the pin, and never traveled down. Cleaned up the pin and the hole in the lever, applied Singer oil and put everything back, and the tone arm snaps right back up everytime now...

Thanks to everyone for your advices and Menahem for publishing that great guide!!!

Re: Beogram 4002 Arm Not Lifting

Søren Mexico — Wed, 16 Feb 2011 00:02:06 GMT

Dillen:

And I agree on using a proper circlip tool. It WILL fly across the room.

Martin

These circlips are called, Jesus Christ, because thats what you say when they get wings

Re: Beogram 4002 Arm Not Lifting

yachadm — Tue, 15 Feb 2011 12:48:26 GMT

You guys are doing such a great job, I'll just watch from the sidelines!

Re: Beogram 4002 Arm Not Lifting

chartz — Tue, 15 Feb 2011 12:44:38 GMT

Mine looks like this (made in Germany):

Re: Beogram 4002 Arm Not Lifting

slowpat — Tue, 15 Feb 2011 12:43:33 GMT

Dillen:

Yes, these two points (plus the one in the carriage) are most prone to seizing up:

Note that this Beogram differs from the one shown in the linked page, it does not have
the left side switch etc. but the tonearm mechs are basically the same.

And I agree on using a proper circlip tool. It WILL fly across the room.

Martin

Thanks Martin - can't take shortcuts when degreasing those pivot points, eh?

Re: Beogram 4002 Arm Not Lifting

slowpat — Tue, 15 Feb 2011 12:41:37 GMT

chartz:

It is not quite stuck (hardened old grease) and the spring isn't powerful enough to call it back as it should! So it will come back but slowly, as if damped.

...

Then if that's not enough, same operation on the L-shaped lever.

I insist on the fact that you MUST use a special tool for the circlips though!

Will do...and you're so correct because I put Singer oil on the L-shaped lever and thought all was well, but eventually, had to take it out, and it was caked up and took some effort to come up. After cleaning the hole and the pin, oiled, and reassembled, it was swinging like night and day.

And yes...I have a c-clip tool, and I'll put a net around the work place to catch that c-clip... Thanks...

Re: Beogram 4002 Arm Not Lifting

Dillen — Tue, 15 Feb 2011 12:32:17 GMT

Yes, these two points (plus the one in the carriage) are most prone to seizing up:

Note that this Beogram differs from the one shown in the linked page, it does not have
the left side switch etc. but the tonearm mechs are basically the same.

And I agree on using a proper circlip tool. It WILL fly across the room.

Martin

Re: Beogram 4002 Arm Not Lifting

chartz — Tue, 15 Feb 2011 12:14:22 GMT

slowpat:
The behavior I am seeing is that the solenoid shaft shoots out when energized, but when STOP is pressed, it DOES NOT snap back in, but rather acted like a damper, and just slowly goes back in.

Exactly!

It is not quite stuck (hardened old grease) and the spring isn't powerful enough to call it back as it should! So it will come back but slowly, as if damped.

You need to remove the front lever and clean its bearing first (I use white spirit) in and out, then apply fresh Singer oil. Don't think that just a drop of oil on top will do! You really have to take the thing off... The old grease is caked and actually acts as a very good sealing agent! See my post.

Then if that's not enough, same operation on the L-shaped lever.

I insist on the fact that you MUST use a special tool for the circlips though!

Re: Beogram 4002 Arm Not Lifting

slowpat — Tue, 15 Feb 2011 11:42:45 GMT

The springs are on correctly just like the photo in the write up. However, I have not lubricated the point inside the carriage head nor the take out the lever at the pivot point with the c-clip by the damper to have a thorough cleaning, so those two items will be next. The behavior I am seeing is that the solenoid shaft shoots out when energized, but when STOP is pressed, it DOES NOT snap back in, but rather acted like a damper, and just slowly goes back in. Perhaps no voltage was applied to the solenoid at that point? I'll need to re-read the service manual and Menahem's write up. Thanks.

Re: Beogram 4002 Arm Not Lifting

chartz — Tue, 15 Feb 2011 07:56:05 GMT

Step1:

Just thought I would throw in my pennys worth in!

I had this problem with a 4002. It was almost as if there was a residual current holding the solenoid in and if you slightly helped the arm release everything would snap back in place like it should! Measurements revealed no voltage at sol terminals, all the lubrication in the world didn't help with this one and I was puzzled. Sometimes it would be 5 minutes before the arm snapped back up. However it would generally do this quickly when it happened.

I found the problem when looking through the setup proceedures in the manual. Making sure the lower solenoid arm was parallel to the lower PCB when energised actually solved this problem and the deck has been fine since!

Very interesting. Hence the importance of scrupulously following the manual!

However both my 4002 and 4000 behaved like Tom's and it was a lubrication problem.

Menahem forgot to mention the L-shaped arm which actually transmits the solenoid movement to the arm lift.

Unfortunately this has to be dimantled and cleaned too prior to lubricating. See this.

But Olly's lead is very interesting indeed, and perhaps you should check this first!

Re: Beogram 4002 Arm Not Lifting

Step1 — Tue, 15 Feb 2011 04:05:35 GMT

Just thought I would throw in my pennys worth in!

I had this problem with a 4002. It was almost as if there was a residual current holding the solenoid in and if you slightly helped the arm release everything would snap back in place like it should! Measurements revealed no voltage at sol terminals, all the lubrication in the world didn't help with this one and I was puzzled. Sometimes it would be 5 minutes before the arm snapped back up. However it would generally do this quickly when it happened.

I found the problem when looking through the setup proceedures in the manual. Making sure the lower solenoid arm was parallel to the lower PCB when energised actually solved this problem and the deck has been fine since!

Re: Beogram 4002 Arm Not Lifting

Dillen — Tue, 15 Feb 2011 01:50:23 GMT

Yes, the solenoid is supposed to snap back rapidly.
The mechanics around it should do the same. The raising of the tonearm should
be an almost instant smack, much faster than the lowering.
Are you sure that all the springs are on correctly ?
Did you lubricate the point inside the carriage head ?

Martin