Vintage Products

Re: JaffBay Was Open

Rich — Wed, 08 Jun 2011 09:42:29 GMT

burantek:

First reaction would be to install a fresher belt -but I think that would be a mistake. More tension would likely have lead to damage to the needle, the record, or the motor. The "stall" may have saved everything???

It's an interesting question. The deck has performed flawlessly since. I've ordered belts just in case, but probably won't install until/unless another problem occurs.

Re: JaffBay Was Open

burantek — Wed, 08 Jun 2011 09:07:43 GMT

Rich:
But that wasn't the HFS moment. That came about 15 minutes later in the 4th or 5th song, when the 4002 without warning SLOWED DOWN TO A STOP MIDSONG WITH THE STYLUS STILL IN THE GROOVE!!!!

Sorry for my absence!

Looks like you are on your way to dealing w/ the holes.

Back to the point of the table slowing.

Based on the pic you just provided... The record appeared perhaps a bit "domed" as well. I would assume that as the arm traveled along the record it slowly levered upwards causing excessive force at the needle/groove interface. This may have been enough to "stall" the table. My guess is that the belt may have been slipping on the motor pulley as the motor still turned.

First reaction would be to install a fresher belt -but I think that would be a mistake. More tension would likely have lead to damage to the needle, the record, or the motor. The "stall" may have saved everything???

Re: JaffBay Was Open

Rich — Tue, 07 Jun 2011 20:46:09 GMT

The Google Fu - generally concentrating on Thorens tables that have "spindles too large" - said the solution was just to turn a wooden pencil in the hole. Soren's solution of the hole reamer had me thinking of a larger version of a hobby file I own (back in my Warhammer toy soldier days). Sure enough, this Nicholson part number 21853 8 inch round file (found today at Lowes) worked for me on fixing the Neil Young album. It also got rid of the extra material in my new 180 gram version of Paul's Band on the Run. Both records played flawlessly tonight on the BG 4002.

Re: JaffBay Was Open

Rich — Tue, 07 Jun 2011 20:39:18 GMT

I used my Google Fu today and learned this "spindle too large/LP hole too small" problem isn't necessarily rare. Never had a problem with any previous turntable, but so far have found two LPs in my collection won't fit the BG 4002.

The DIN spec is 7.24 mm -0/+0.09 mm. The RIAA spec is 0.286" +0.001"/-0.002".

So, DIN range is approximately 0.285" to 0.289", while the RIAA spec is 0.284" to 0.287". I can't believe the difference in extremes of the ranges (worst case scenario) of 0.005" could lead to the shorts changing experience above.

Anyway, here's a shot of the Neil Young album that doesn't fit. Can you see the gap between the platter and the LP?

Re: JaffBay Was Open

Søren Mexico — Tue, 07 Jun 2011 09:13:45 GMT

Had the same problem, and as Rich nearly soaked my pants, I had repaired a flywheel and testing with the first LP it was wobling like crazy, took it out again, of to my workshop checking in my lathe, and OK, testing again, same LP same problem, put on a 45 and no problem, another LP and no problem, Checked the hole in the LP and the shaft on the deck, and there it was.

I now have a conical reamer (cone 1/50) ready and open up the hole a little from both sides whenever I find one with problems, some has the labels mis placed and there I use a sharp knife to trim the label.

As Chartz mension, mainly 1970/80s records are affected.

Re: JaffBay Was Open

chartz — Tue, 07 Jun 2011 06:02:09 GMT

Rich:

So what's the story? Anyone else had issues with the holes of records?

Yes, me!

Basically, all the new pressings' holes are too small for my three Beograms. Just fine on the odd Technics though.

I guess that's because B&O wanted to center the records precisely, even with EPs by the way.

Anyway, many 70's and 80's records have their holes badly centered as regards modulation, inducing awful wow!

With old discs, very carefully machined and pressed (typically from the late 50's to early 70's, or 80's for classical), there is no problem.

Re: JaffBay Was Open

Evan — Sun, 05 Jun 2011 20:15:54 GMT

Richard, that sounds like something for THIS THREAD.

Re: JaffBay Was Open

Eugene — Sun, 05 Jun 2011 17:46:35 GMT

A few moths back after refurbing a CD3300 I couldnt get the *** to play at all. I kept relaoding and restarting. I was freaking out cause it had more or less been working OK before the refurb.

It was only after about the fifth or 6th try that I realized I was loading the disk upside down.

Damn CD50's !!!!!

Re: JaffBay Was Open

Rich — Sun, 05 Jun 2011 14:58:47 GMT

By the way, I couldn't help myself yesterday: I ordered a new Soundsmith SMMC20EN yesterday for the BG4002.

Re: JaffBay Was Open

Rich — Sun, 05 Jun 2011 14:56:05 GMT

So I had a scary HFS moment this afternoon. I listened to more of this week's finds (business trip to WI/IA, Deaf Ear Records of La Crosse, WI) on the BG4002. Used Sting's first solo record, then a new 180 gram version of Blind Faith, then a used Neil Young Reactor. The Neil Young didn't fit all the way down on the 4002's spindle.

Huh. Pressed down a bit. Nope.

I've had a few of the newer releases have a bit of extra material left in the hole that I've had to X-acto out (no QC on these "audiophile" pressings - WTFF?), but hadn't thought I'd had any problems with used records.

But then I thought, wait a minute. I thought Queen The Game was warped the last time I played it. Maybe it just isn't getting to the platter of the 4002, like this Neil Young.

So I took an X-acto and scraped a bit on the Neil Young album's hole. Tried it on the 4002 again, giving just a bit of pressure to the label. Seemed to seat it.

Turned on the 4002, and OH DEAR GOD THE CANTILEVER IS NOT GOING TO CLEAR THE RECORD!!!!

The stylus bent at about a 20 degree angle before pulling over the record, settling into the groove, and playing. That was close.

But that wasn't the HFS moment. That came about 15 minutes later in the 4th or 5th song, when the 4002 without warning SLOWED DOWN TO A STOP MIDSONG WITH THE STYLUS STILL IN THE GROOVE!!!!

DEAR GOD WHAT HAVE I DONE?!?!

I opened the lid and hit stop and the tonearm lifted and returned home without incident. I took the Neil Young record off and tried playing a record I successfully played earlier in the week: Jimi Hendrix Are You Experienced (bought new, 180 gram reissue). No problems. Played Steely Dan's Aja (bought used, original pressing). No problems. Played Keith Richards' Talk is Cheap (bought new, original pressing). No problems.

So what's the story? Anyone else had issues with the holes of records? Anyone else have to change their shorts over a mishap like this?

Re: JaffBay Was Open

Søren Mexico — Thu, 02 Jun 2011 23:05:26 GMT

Eugene:

I am beginning to think the only cure for the Beovirus is Tandberg or Telefunken or a the pride of Grand Rapids, Michigan.

BTW I had a Tandberg reel to reel, with joystick 1967-8 something, funny thing with the virus, its mostly vintage collectors DIU that gets the virus.

Re: JaffBay Was Open

Eugene — Thu, 02 Jun 2011 21:25:08 GMT

I am beginning to think the only cure for the Beovirus is Tandberg or Telefunken or a the pride of Grand Rapids, Michigan.

Re: JaffBay Was Open

Evan — Wed, 01 Jun 2011 21:53:39 GMT

Rich:
But of course that's nothing compared to so many folks sicker than me! Could put together a few more.

Yes, the speakers multiply and accumulate...

Re: JaffBay Was Open

Rich — Wed, 01 Jun 2011 21:14:54 GMT

Eugene:

Søren Mexico:

Rich:
Well, thanks for reading. And a special thanks to Jeff/Jaff/Burantek. When I first got the hi-fi bug in the 80s, there was a certain system I dreamed of. Thanks to Jaff, I'm as close to that dream system as I ever have been.

As you got the virus, the next "dream system" will be up shortly

Beomaster 1200 with the matching Beogram, although my one deck fits all Beogram 1700 would certainly fill the bill. My latest thought has been to pick up a Dual 1219 or thereabout to match up to the 2000/4000 or possibly dye one the my 1700's black. B&O never made a matching turnatable in black for either of those Beomasters.

I think my next purchase will be a pre-uniphase Beovox set. Not to put another system together, just to restore another set of speakers.

Re: JaffBay Was Open

Rich — Wed, 01 Jun 2011 21:12:08 GMT

Søren Mexico:

Rich:

Søren Mexico:

Thats just beautiful, which speakers ??

I think my BM 4000 got shipped from McAllen today, now I cant wait

Are you going to pair your BM 4000 with your S45s with the stands you built? Jaff just loves his S45s, and that's all we listened to at his place.

With the BM 4000 is coming Bvox 3702, and Bvox 3000 flat panel (JaffBay) so I will have to test, also decide to use BG 2404 or BG 5000

Fun to have choices. I have three systems I regularly listen to. Could put together a few more.

And that doesn't count the home theater in the living room with no Beo.

But of course that's nothing compared to so many folks sicker than me!