Vintage Products

Re: Beogram 3000 (Tangential version)

John — Tue, 22 Dec 2009 03:31:10 GMT

Thanks for the good wishes, as you say, it was made once and so as there are no broken parts it must be possible to get it to work again.

One idea is that I could follow a scheme I had as a child trying to learn about clocks :- take out all the parts and put it together again-. The trouble is there were always bits left over. If I tried it with this I suspect I would have enough bits left over to make a tape deck as well.

The good news is that I am seeing a glimmer of light, even if it is only at the beginning of the tunnel.

Seasons Greetings to all.

John

Re: Beogram 3000 (Tangential version)

tournedos — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 15:25:06 GMT

John:

The whole thing is fiendishly ingenious and if I ever resolve it I think I might feel rather satisfied.

I'm sorry I can't help you with your problem, but I just had to say that this is a feeling you better get accustomed to if you plan to work with B&O turntables

Season's greetings in any case - and remember that they were built by a human! Resist the temptation to wreck it and you will eventually work it out...

Re: Beogram 3000 (Tangential version)

John — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 15:19:19 GMT

It looks as if I must look at the solenoid again. I am a bit puzzled about what is supposed to be happening. I have removed the PCB to check the solenoid and can not see what the bell cranks at each end do. They do not move very far but disappear under the cam wheels. The mechanism seems related to moving the pickup arm to the correct starting point and then lowering it to the record. At this stage it should all be free from the gear on the sub-platter so that the record can turn freely. The cam wheels do not run free and I can not see why. Perhaps I am overlooking some interaction with the record weight sensor.

The whole thing is fiendishly ingenious and if I ever resolve it I think I might feel rather satisfied.

If I can't solve the problem I can always revert to my original purpose and use it as spares for my other deck if that ever fails. I did have a suggestion to open up the other deck as a reference to see what should be happening. My experience so far tells me not even to think about it. The other deck works fine but the opportunities to wreck it seem endless.

John

Re: Beogram 3000 (Tangential version)

Eugene — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 09:08:42 GMT

Failing any mechanical problems, or broken parts, I still would focus on the plastic piston.

I had one come back, about 2 months after I repaired it, and I could not believe that the piston was still the problem. After all, I figured that I had rebuilt it perfectly, and it moved easily when I pushed it with my finger.

Turns out that I had not lubricated the tunnel enough, and it was sticking. I sprayed some more Silicon Spray in, then wiped it down, and it hasn't co

I will second Menahem on that. I my case it was a bit too much silicone grease and I had to take some out

Re: Beogram 3000 (Tangential version)

yachadm — Mon, 21 Dec 2009 05:08:16 GMT

Failing any mechanical problems, or broken parts, I still would focus on the plastic piston.

Turns out that I had not lubricated the tunnel enough, and it was sticking. I sprayed some more Silicon Spray in, then wiped it down, and it hasn't come back again.

So the fact that your finger can push it easily, does not necessarily mean that it's slippery enough to be activated by the very low current in the solenoid.

IIRC (I don't have one on the bench now), you must notice that the solenoid moves at the instant that you push the PLAY button. If it doesn't, then the solenoid or its associated circuits are most likely the source of the problem.

Menahem

Re: Beogram 3000 (Tangential version)

John — Fri, 18 Dec 2009 08:36:13 GMT

Martin,

Yes I have removed the sub-platter and I have checked the cog wheels. They all seem free on their spindles but there are two with green plastic slides that I assume are the cam wheels. These are free but cannot be rotated more than a degree or two before giving the impression that there is some locking mechanism preventing further rotation. There is another wheel that is smaller and appears to have a gap in the teeth. This rotates a bit more, it has a section of teeth that are shallower than the others and when the teeth engage in the large wheel ( with the slider) it stops.

John

Re: Beogram 3000 (Tangential version)

Dillen — Fri, 18 Dec 2009 07:17:57 GMT

Can you lift off the subplatter ?

If so, can you rotate the two cam wheels by hand using no more than "controlled hand-force" ?

Martin

Re: Beogram 3000 (Tangential version)

John — Fri, 18 Dec 2009 07:09:35 GMT

yes it does move sideways almost the full length of the slide but it meets slight resistance about 1cm from right end

Re: Beogram 3000 (Tangential version)

Dillen — Fri, 18 Dec 2009 04:49:20 GMT

Will the tonearm carriage move sideways if pushed gently by hand or is it locked too ?

Martin

Re: Beogram 3000 (Tangential version)

John — Fri, 18 Dec 2009 04:32:18 GMT

Menahem.

I removed the PCB to check the solenoid and all seems well. The plunger is completely free and can be moved easily by hand from one end of the slot to the other (about 7mm) . I have not tried it with power but as it actually moved a little when in position I assume the coil is fine.

Movement when in place is limited by the two levers resting against the ends of the plunger. They are in fact quite rigid and neither can be moved at all. I would have thought that one should be free but have not yet found out how they should operate. Closer inspection is needed. I am reluctant to remove any of the gears to see what is happening without understanding how they should work. With the PCB removed I might be able to see more.

Regards

John

Re: Beogram 3000 (Tangential version)

John — Thu, 17 Dec 2009 16:00:46 GMT

Many thanks for the link. So far I have looked very carefully at the gears but not attempted to remove anything. I have read through the contributions in the thread and will look at it very carefully to check the operation. I had overlooked this relay as something seemed to move there when I switched things. The symptoms are just as described so this is most likely to be the problem. I have someone who is a vintage camera enthusiast so I stand a good chance of fixing it. If not I will remember your kind offer.

Regards

John

Re: Beogram 3000 (Tangential version)

yachadm — Thu, 17 Dec 2009 15:17:17 GMT

John

Do not start playing with the gears - that's not the source of your problem.

Read this post - your problem is the bad plastic piston - no spares, and needs to be rebuilt.

http://forum.beoworld.org/forums/p/24078/183590.aspx

If you're up to rebuilding it yourself - great, if not, disconnect the main PCB with the solenoid on it, and send it to me for a rebuild.

Menahem

Re: Beogram 3000 (Tangential version)

John — Thu, 17 Dec 2009 04:34:27 GMT

Thanks Graham,

I have now got to this stage and will try to sort the gears with the help of the assembly pictures in the service manual. It is obvious that care is needed with all the plastic bits that will not like abuse.

One thing I have confirmed is that the motor is O.K. and that it changes speed with the manual selector. I have noticed that the grease on the pickup carriage is dried and although I doubt it is the problem as the drive comes from the gearing connected to the platter giving it a clean might help.

It is a shame about spares but I got this deck as a possible source of bits for a Beogram 5006 that is working fine at the moment. Unfortunately I have the vintage radio disease and cannot resist restoring sets bought as scrap for spares. I will obviously have an absorbing time learning "reverse engineering"

Regards

John

Re: Beogram 3000 (Tangential version)

joeyboygolf — Wed, 16 Dec 2009 16:35:51 GMT

John:

Thank you for the replies. Graham I think you have confirmed that I have a problem. I have removed the cartridge so I can push things around a bit. The platter does not move in either direction and when I remove the drive wheel the two large gears are rigid. The pickup arm is free and can be slid along it's guide rail.

I have just looked at the service manual and section 5-1 appears to show the starting gears of the gear train. The wheel they call the camwheel can be released by the toothed sector being moved as is described for the adjustment. It then rotates freely but not very far before engaging with some other mechanism. It certainly looks as if I must examine these gears in detail and also very carefully.

Regards John

Take the drive belt off. Remove the black plastic circle (don't know what that does - the deck works just as well without it!!!)

Lift the under platter vertically upwards and carefully lay it to one side.

It sounds like your cogs have got their knickers in a bit of a twist so you may now be able to sort them out. Gently mind, 'cos spares are not available unless you buy another scrap deck!!!

Re: Beogram 3000 (Tangential version)

rayinrubber — Wed, 16 Dec 2009 15:51:02 GMT

yes that is the lock I mentioned.