BeoGram

Re: Hello and a bit of advice on Beogram 4000

kevinoils — Sat, 19 Jan 2008 18:27:16 GMT

I am getting slightly worried as I am using my turtable more than ever, I just swap now and again between a few that I have, MMC 20CL on occasion for new vinyl but mostly have MMC 20S on and it plays well. I know I will have to splash out eventually but I dont like the look of the Soundsmith ones to date, they look more crude. I will eventually go there if they make them look better.

Kev

Re: Hello and a bit of advice on Beogram 4000

tyres — Fri, 18 Jan 2008 17:22:38 GMT

Thanks anyway. I just wanted to know if you had any problems, as I had already got the cable from Flashback Sales.

In fact the problem I experienced was probably due to the Beogram 9500 I was connecting to the phono input of a non-B&O amp having RIAA amplification already built in, thus producing distortion when put through another amplification process (the amp's phono stage). It worked pretty well when connected to the AUX socket of the amp, which supports that idea. Glad your machine is working well anyway!

Colin

Re: Hello and a bit of advice on Beogram 4000

bambam — Sat, 12 Jan 2008 17:13:55 GMT

tyres:
Hi,
Actually I'll be interested in your experience connecting your Beogram to your amp's phono input socket, assuming it's not a B&O amp? I tried connecting a Beogram 9500 to the phono input on my amp, and got dreadful sound out of it :-( I tried the AUX socket instead, and got a much more acceptable result. Not sure why the bad result from the phono socket happened, something to do with mismatching impedances? I don't really know. Hopefully you won't have the same problem, but I'd like to know the outcome.
Colin

I bought a cable from a seller on Ebay for about £3 - DIN to phono plus earth and its working great. I have the t/table connected to a non-B&O amp and there is no problem at all. Let me know if you want the seller's details.

Cheers

Re: Hello and a bit of advice on Beogram 4000

tyres — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 15:17:13 GMT

Ah, I didn't realise the Ouverture doesn't have an RIAA. I assumed it would have. That explains that then! Thanks.

Colin

Re: Hello and a bit of advice on Beogram 4000

Peter — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 15:11:56 GMT

tyres:
That certainly would explain the dreadful sound quality when I connected the 9500 to the phono input on the amp, and why it worked pretty well when connected to the AUX input. My sister (previously) had it connected to the Ouverture CD/Tape/Tuner system, possibly via the AUX input (I'm not sure about that). If the Beogram had the RIAA wouldn't that have conflicted with the RIAA amp in the Ouverture? It didn't, but I just wondered how that worked.
Colin

The Ouverture doesn't have a RIAA. Her dealer probably got her the internal RIAA for the Beogram because of this. They were very cheap!

Re: Hello and a bit of advice on Beogram 4000

bambam — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 14:14:05 GMT

Hi all

Wow, what a response!

Thanks for all the advice everyone - I have found a din-phono converter on Ebay that has an earth lead and it was only a few £ so I'll try that first. I don't really want to get into spending loads on a cable until I know the main unit is sound.

I'm not particularly technically competent but I think I can manage what Peter suggested - so I'll give it a go...

More once I get the cable - until then I can only really look at it...

Thanks again

Re: Hello and a bit of advice on Beogram 4000

tyres — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 13:54:10 GMT

That certainly would explain the dreadful sound quality when I connected the 9500 to the phono input on the amp, and why it worked pretty well when connected to the AUX input. My sister (previously) had it connected to the Ouverture CD/Tape/Tuner system, possibly via the AUX input (I'm not sure about that). If the Beogram had the RIAA wouldn't that have conflicted with the RIAA amp in the Ouverture? It didn't, but I just wondered how that worked.

Colin

Re: Hello and a bit of advice on Beogram 4000

Peter — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 12:36:50 GMT

You are quite correct in thinking that the Beogram 9500 doesn't have a standard RIAA. It was an option though so I suppose yours has one fitted.

Re: Hello and a bit of advice on Beogram 4000

tyres — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 10:46:49 GMT

Thanks for the reply kjj. I was under the impression that the 9500 doesn't have the RIAA amplifier (could be wrong!), so I'd assume it would work with the phono stage on an (non B&O) amp, but it doesn't seem to be the case in this instance.

Colin

Re: Hello and a bit of advice on Beogram 4000

Peter — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 09:35:06 GMT

They are not a bad likeness - if they were silver they would be fine. I have a SMMC20EN and it is a lovely cartridge. However I would get a MMC20CL+ in a flash if it was silver! I did offer to get some cases made silver at no cost to them but nothing came of it. Maybe if there were enough of us they would consider it.

Re: Hello and a bit of advice on Beogram 4000

h1npw — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 08:47:56 GMT

Why on earth don't Soundsmith make their cartridges look more like the originals - do B&O insist on a significant visual difference?

Cheers

Nigel

Re: Hello and a bit of advice on Beogram 4000

Peter — Thu, 10 Jan 2008 01:50:07 GMT

In principle I agree with you. In practice, even NOS cartridges can suffer from hardening suspension and this does affect sound quality. This allied to the fact that most cartridges on eBay sold as 'new' are used, would lead me to get a Soundsmith one.

I also like the MMC6000 but I have yet to find a good one - the stylus seems very prone to wear.

Re: Hello and a bit of advice on Beogram 4000

Piaf — Wed, 09 Jan 2008 23:09:39 GMT

Peter's advice is always sound however if you are not technically comfortable working on such a complex beast as the Beogram 4000, you would be well advised to find a highly qualified shop to take it to for reassembly.

I too purchased a Beogram 4000 on eBay and it arrived in tatters, with broken internal pieces and the dust cover in ruins.

Help from this forum got my 4000 back in shape and looking no worse for wear from the shipping disaster that befell it.

What I have learned is these marvelous turntables are aging art…. that is, they are beautiful, yet no longer new. My 4000 requires regular re-adjustments to function like a Swiss watch. (Worth every bit of the effort.)

As for a stylus, I recommend a MMC 20CL in very good shape. Failing this a MMC 6000 would be very nice. The ultimate is NOS, but these are exceedingly difficult to find. I managed to find one for my Beogram 4004 and the difference in sound quality was astonishing.

Sound-Smiths make a fine product, but personally I just can’t live with that black cartridge.

Good luck with your Beogram 4000.

Jeff

Re: Hello and a bit of advice on Beogram 4000

kjj — Wed, 09 Jan 2008 22:47:53 GMT

During the mastering process for vinyl records, the sound is pushed through an equalizing curve. During playback, this transformation needs to be inverted so that it sounds right. The purpose is to prevent the physical grooves on the record from exceeding the limits of the media. Wikipedia has some good info on it, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RIAA_equalization. Turns out that RIAA did something good once, but that was over 50 years ago...

The short version is that your playback equipment needs to do the RIAA conversion exactly once. Too few times or too many times and it sounds like crap. Some turntables do it, others don't. Most receivers do it on the phono input (assuming it has a phono input...).

Also, the line input levels can differ, since the audio path on older turntables were pretty much all passive, like an unpowered microphone while everything else (tape, CD, radio, etc) is already amplified to some extent. I've got an old (70s?) Nikko receiver with different input settings for "MAG. PH." vs. "CER. PH.". It also has settings for "TAPE 9.5CM" and "TAPE 19CM" which really baffled me when I was younger (the 80s) until I got an old reel to reel tape deck.

So, with my 4004 connected to the phono input of my amp, it sounds great and the speakers start to liquify at about 3 on the volume knob. Hooked up to any other input, like CD for example, I have to take it to 4 to get a moderate volume out of it, and it sounds pretty poor even then.

I don't know the 9500, but I suspect that it already has a pre-amp to bring to output up to "modern" equipment levels and running it through the phono input on your amp is just sending it through a second pre-amp stage which probably clips the hell out of it.

Regarding the DIN to RCA dongle from the original poster, assuming the DIN pinout on the 4000 is the same as on my 4004, I can probe it out and post the pin assingments if anyone needs them.

Re: Hello and a bit of advice on Beogram 4000

tyres — Wed, 09 Jan 2008 21:15:43 GMT

Hi,

Actually I'll be interested in your experience connecting your Beogram to your amp's phono input socket, assuming it's not a B&O amp? I tried connecting a Beogram 9500 to the phono input on my amp, and got dreadful sound out of it :-( I tried the AUX socket instead, and got a much more acceptable result. Not sure why the bad result from the phono socket happened, something to do with mismatching impedances? I don't really know. Hopefully you won't have the same problem, but I'd like to know the outcome.

Colin