BeoGram

Re: SP 14 noise trouble

Step1 — Sun, 06 Mar 2011 07:29:59 GMT

Yes I guess he will be able to test the thing properly before working on it.

Re: SP 14 noise trouble

chartz — Sun, 06 Mar 2011 03:43:15 GMT

Hi,

In spite of the whiskey it makes sense indeed!

But since the thing can't be taken apart, I won't investigate any further. Whatever weight I use, the noise remains.

I have just sent an email to Axel about this problem.

Cheers!

Re: SP 14 noise trouble

Step1 — Sat, 05 Mar 2011 19:37:05 GMT

Ah Jacques whilst stricly true you have to bear in mind that the cantilever (I assume) is not under weight, so there will be a little bias to the bottom two cross points, perhaps even to the point of near contact. So is it the bottom ones and how much difference there between the ends of the two crosses(sp?)?

Did that make sense caus the whiskey is assisting me right now and it makes perfect senser to me...

Re: SP 14 noise trouble

chartz — Sat, 05 Mar 2011 09:28:23 GMT

Hi,

I think I've found it...

It appears that the cross is slightly in contact with the body can, so a suspension failure is my guess The stylus, however, is good.

Normally, the cross should not be in contact with anything, should it? It should therefore be isolated from the body.

Re: SP 14 noise trouble

Peter — Sat, 05 Mar 2011 06:23:02 GMT

Step1:

Doctor:

chartz:

@Peter:

You quoted the MMC4000... I thought you got the wrong post or something... Sorry!

The passage above states that the styluses can replace thouse in certain cartridges - one of those mentioned in the SP15. As you know, the SP15 was the original cartridge for the Beogram 4000 and is, to all intents, a MMC4000. This bit of information was therefore wrong and I didn't want it to be quoted in future.

I wonder if they ever planned to allow the stylus to be replaced in this line of carts? I think it would have been possible in a way similar to the SP range!

The cantilever assembly is part of the integrated cartridge so user replacement could never be a plan. They did however offer half price replacement when the stylus was worn - this offer didn't seem to last very long!! These days, Axel can replace the stylus very well!

Re: SP 14 noise trouble

Telecine — Sat, 05 Mar 2011 05:42:00 GMT

chartz:

It only does that with this cartridge. My vinyl is in very good condition (the Mozart plays perfectly and silently on my other decks). The deck's suspension is fine, the Beocenter is on the floor, which is concrete!

Yes it does it with every LP I tried, but then even with a sheet of rhodoid or rubbing a nail onto the tip! I re-inspected the innards but it looks okay in there. Usually when a stylus is worn, there is little treble and it just tracks badly. Not the case here!

Well it is obviously a cartridge issue. A replacement stylus, cartridge rebuild or another cartridge may be your only solution. These cartridges are quite old now and failure is common.

I have found that it is cheaper to purchase a BeoGram with a decent cartridge than it is to purchase a cartridge alone. You might consider that route. The cartrdges are not often well descibed so ask questions and you might find a gem.

Re: SP 14 noise trouble

chartz — Sat, 05 Mar 2011 05:12:19 GMT

Olly,

That's fine really!

It is more fascinating than anything else actually!

I need to get this sorted... I have been following SP cartridges on the bay for some time but the prices they fetch are just silly! As for Beograms, well there are plenty... But no carts, or broken ones!

Re: SP 14 noise trouble

chartz — Sat, 05 Mar 2011 05:04:41 GMT

It only does that with this cartridge. My vinyl is in very good condition (the Mozart plays perfectly and silently on my other decks). The deck's suspension is fine, the Beocenter is on the floor, which is concrete!

Yes it does it with every LP I tried, but then even with a sheet of rhodoid or rubbing a nail onto the tip! I re-inspected the innards but it looks okay in there. Usually when a stylus is worn, there is little treble and it just tracks badly. Not the case here!

Re: SP 14 noise trouble

Step1 — Sat, 05 Mar 2011 04:58:32 GMT

Doctor:

chartz:

@Peter:

You quoted the MMC4000... I thought you got the wrong post or something... Sorry!

The passage above states that the styluses can replace thouse in certain cartridges - one of those mentioned in the SP15. As you know, the SP15 was the original cartridge for the Beogram 4000 and is, to all intents, a MMC4000. This bit of information was therefore wrong and I didn't want it to be quoted in future.

I wonder if they ever planned to allow the stylus to be replaced in this line of carts? I think it would have been possible in a way similar to the SP range!

Re: SP 14 noise trouble

Step1 — Sat, 05 Mar 2011 04:56:05 GMT

Hi Jacques, sorry about the cart - seems to be causing a lot of grief and mystery! I am wondering if it is possible this noise is eminating from elsewhere? You either need another deck to test the cartridge on or another cartridge to test on this deck!

Are there no old begrams on ebay atm? They tend to go for next to nothing over here in the UK, although not sure what they go for on your side of the channel...

Re: SP 14 noise trouble

Telecine — Sat, 05 Mar 2011 04:42:04 GMT

Jacques,

I don't really know what to make of that to be honest.

I assume that you don't have this problem when using another cartridge?

It appears to have a rythym to it. This happens on all vinyl you play?

Might be the suspension, might be something else.

You have the turntable appropriately isolated?

Re: SP 14 noise trouble

chartz — Sat, 05 Mar 2011 03:22:30 GMT

scraping.m4a

Don't pay attention to the beeps... bad laptop

Re: SP 14 noise trouble

chartz — Sat, 05 Mar 2011 02:44:57 GMT

Thanks.

What I know for sure is that the cantilever doesn't foul anything while playing. I can also hear the scraping hollow noise if I stick my ear to the cartridge! The tiniest vinyl imperfections excite the cartridge body. I have inspected the outside under a slide magnifying glass but I can't see anything wrong... I'm going to make a recording so that you can hear for yourself!

Re: SP 14 noise trouble

Telecine — Fri, 04 Mar 2011 19:04:17 GMT

chartz:

Hi,

So if the suspension is knackered, why is it so stiff? And why would this excite the body's resonances? The scraping noise sounds as if it came from a pipe! It makes me think of my old 78's played with a worn needle.

Not really sure how the suspension works on these SP series cartridges so collapsed suspension is something of a presumptive diagnosis based on the symptoms you have described. There is usually some rubber involved in the suspension system that perishes over time. If there is no suspension working this may manifest itself as being stiff or too soft, depending on what has happenned to the rubber.

- You have a scraping noise (some part of the cartridge or cantilever other than the stylus must be in contact with the record)

- Some copper discs fell out when you removed the stylus assembly (this may be what is left of the suspension after the rubber has gone? I don't imagine that they were surplus to requirements and just floating around in there)

- The body reasonace issue is no doubt related to the scraping noise. (something other than the stylus is in contact with the record or the catilever is in contact wit the cartridge body. Hard to know without seeing a closeup of the cartridge on the arm when playing a record).

Re: SP 14 noise trouble

chartz — Fri, 04 Mar 2011 04:05:33 GMT

Hi,

So if the suspension is knackered, why is it so stiff? And why would this excite the body's resonances? The scraping noise sounds as if it came from a pipe! It makes me think of my old 78's played with a worn needle.