BeoGram

Re: Buy new from B&O, rebuilt or buy new from Soundsmith?

Hubbe — Mon, 14 Feb 2011 18:08:03 GMT

First I´d like to thank everyone for their thoughtful contributions to this thread. I had a Beosound Ouverture before. Sold it and was thinking of replacing it with a new BeoSound 9000. Then I stumbled upon a Beosystem 7000 without Beogram 7000. The seller was 5 minutes away. I took out money from an ATM and bought it. Then I searched out a Beogram 7000. Found one in Denmark that I bought. Shortly thereafter, I saw a BeoLink 7000 for sale at my local B & O dealers. Bought it too. This was a couple of years ago.

I never bought a Beosound 9000 that was the idea from the beginning. I don´t regret the decision for a second. The CD player in Beosystem 7000 sounds fantastic and the system as a whole breathe quality in a way I don´t experience subsequent products from Bang Olufen does. That doesn´t mean that I won´t buy a Beosound 9000 in the future. Still think it is a fantastic creation though in a different way than Beosystem 7000.

Re: Buy new from B&O, rebuilt or buy new from Soundsmith?

Steffen — Sat, 12 Feb 2011 18:14:49 GMT

Congratulations with your Beogram 7000, Hubbe -it's quite rare, as it was from a time when record-sales were really declining, and a lot of the 7000 systems were sold without the Beogram.
I recently bought a "complete" Beosystem 7000 in all-black (which is also quite rare) -well the Beogram was a 5500 -white version! But the owner had tried to turn it into a black version with some black plastic-foil.
Anyway -I got it for a fair price -equipped with a MMC 1. And I managed to peel off the plastic foil without damaging the white paint.
Need I to say, that I have not placed the white BG on top of the 7000 system..?

Talking about cartridges -I also have a Beogram 5000 with a SMMC4 from Soundsmith -it is a very good cartridge.

Re: Buy new from B&O, rebuilt or buy new from Soundsmith?

Søren Mexico — Sat, 12 Feb 2011 14:59:32 GMT

I totally agree with Eugine, if your source (the record), your equipment, and your suroundings (listening room), is not absolutely perfect why waste money on a top class pick up, my record collection has everything from bad to mint, and I would never play anything not mint with a USD 1000 pick up. Clean room , my rooms are living room, bar, bedroom, the garage and the terrace, and these rooms are the rooms that BO used for testing in the old times, to get a natural sound in a natural surrounding.

Re: Buy new from B&O, rebuilt or buy new from Soundsmith?

Eugene — Sat, 12 Feb 2011 07:10:24 GMT

Søren Mexico:

Cleviebaby:

Eugene:
My favorite turntable cartridge combo is the Beogram 1700 with an MMC20EN

But then I'm getting old and the hearing is going!

Cleve

Well, you are not alone

My hearing is still good but my eyes are shot and so are my knees and hips and wrists. Being middle aged sucks !!! Maybe my eyes are just compensating for all my other failing body parts.

Living in the states my price for a new soundsmith cartridge is fixed so I dont have to worry about fluctuating currency exchange rates or what the postman is going to demand in customs duties. I am in no rush to buy for that reason alone. We also are lucky in that we have Benny who can retip a to the MMC4 standard. (I have one I need to send him.)

That said I would probably never spend the money on a MMC2 MMC 20CL class cartridge. I could see where one of those would work if your vinyl collection was pristine ( mine isnt) and your listening space were a virtual clean room ( not in my house). The MMC3 or soundsmith 3 or EN class cartridge is as far as I would go.

The MMC4 may not be a "great" cartridge but that doesnt make it a bad one. I would rate it as the one size fits all. I have read comments where some people have written the the SMMC4 is a bit brighter than the original B&O 4. Maybe so, but then your cmparing brand new to something that seen 10-20 years of playing time. I would inagine there would be a break-in period for a new stylus. I had also read that trimming back the stylus pressure on a new SMMC4 from 1.0g to maybe .8 or so softens the sound up a bit.

I typically will trim back the MMC5 to 1.2-3g. seems to help but it is a bit bright either way.

Re: Buy new from B&O, rebuilt or buy new from Soundsmith?

Søren Mexico — Sat, 12 Feb 2011 02:02:52 GMT

Cleviebaby:

Eugene:
My favorite turntable cartridge combo is the Beogram 1700 with an MMC20EN

But then I'm getting old and the hearing is going!

Cleve

Well, you are not alone

Re: Buy new from B&O, rebuilt or buy new from Soundsmith?

Cleviebaby — Sat, 12 Feb 2011 01:44:49 GMT

Eugene:
My favorite turntable cartridge combo is the Beogram 1700 with an MMC20EN

Can I just echo this praise for the BG1700 and for Axel's retipped cartridges? I have 1700 with a MMC20S retipped with an eliptical stylus and there are many records, particularly early digital recordings that sound better on this combination than on my BG 8002/MMC2. It smooths out the glassy edge many of these recordings were occasionally prone to.

Trying direct comparison of the 1700/retipped MMC20 with a BG4004/MMC20EN through my BM 4400 via S45.2s it was difficult to hear any difference at all, and both turntables had recently been looked at by the expert, so were working really well.

But then I'm getting old and the hearing is going!

Cleve

Re: Buy new from B&O, rebuilt or buy new from Soundsmith?

Doctor — Fri, 11 Feb 2011 10:48:43 GMT

I agree about the Beogram 1700 - indeed the same goes for many of the radial decks. Most are very cheap, have excellent suspension and good sound. The old Hi-Fi Choice volumes rated them highly.

The MMC3 is an interesting cartridge - not many about but is essentially a MMC20EN but improved. I think the only deck to have it as standard was the 6002.

Re: Buy new from B&O, rebuilt or buy new from Soundsmith?

Eugene — Thu, 10 Feb 2011 21:09:16 GMT

My favorite turntable cartridge combo is the Beogram 1700 with an MMC20EN. I have 3. all of which were purchased off eBay on BIN listings for under $ 70 USD apiece.

Great deck, simple but very solid build. Something to think about.

I also like the Beogram 3000 with an MMC3. Good detail and a softer sound than the MMC4 or 5.

In the end Peter I side with Peter in the suggestion to having Axel rebuild the MMC2 and also buying a SoundSmith cartridge. The Euro to Dollar exchange right now is pretty favorale if you are spending in Euro's. good time to buy.

Re: Buy new from B&O, rebuilt or buy new from Soundsmith?

Søren Mexico — Thu, 10 Feb 2011 20:21:09 GMT

The long awaited SMMC4 arrived, tested on BM 2400, BG 2404, S45, against my used MMC4. Result, a little clearer highs and a little more distinctive lows, but not to my ears (old) a big difference, Stereo channel separation better, so my MMC4 is not to bad.

Tested with Onkyo amp with BL 8000 and BG 5000, same result.

I will recommend the SMMC4, my MMC4 is in good condition, but the new SMMC4 is better and I dont have live with fear that my MMC4 can break down any day.

Re: Buy new from B&O, rebuilt or buy new from Soundsmith?

Søren Mexico — Wed, 09 Feb 2011 10:26:59 GMT

After a long waiting time my Soundsmith SMMC4 should arrive today, UPS was here yesterday, but nobody home.

I have a very good sounding MMC 4, a BG 2404 and a BG 5000, I will test on both decks and report back here.

Re: Buy new from B&O, rebuilt or buy new from Soundsmith?

Hubbe — Tue, 08 Feb 2011 06:55:19 GMT

Doctor:

I think one should remember that hi-fi obeys the law of diminishing returns. Something that costs ten times as much will not be ten times better. The SMMC4 is a very good cartridge. The SMMC2 is better but will the difference be worth the money!? Only you can decide this and the problem is that there are no demo versions knocking about! You therefore need to rely on the words of others and sound discrimination is a very black art!

Everything you written above is very true. To bad you can´t try different cartridge before you buy them. That would make things much easier. I just got my Beogram back and tested it. It sounds alright to be honest. But again I have nothing to compare it with at the moment. I´m going to use the my old MMC2 catridge for a while to buy myself time to decide the next route.

chartz:

I admit to being fond of my SMMC and I find the original B&O MMC20CL and EN very sweet, perhaps a bit soft in the upper registers, but much weightier in the bass department which really thunders.

Since you can't have it all, what you need is two tables with different cartridges... That's what I do!

I saw I Beogram 4000 for sale in Denmark the other day. It´s sold now. I was thinking of buying it. It seemed to be in good condition. But then again you never know the condition of the catridge. The asking price was 2500 Danish Kronor. Maybe next time.

Re: Buy new from B&O, rebuilt or buy new from Soundsmith?

chartz — Sat, 05 Feb 2011 11:49:39 GMT

Hi,

I admit to being fond of my SMMC and I find the original B&O MMC20CL and EN very sweet, perhaps a bit soft in the upper registers, but much weightier in the bass department which really thunders.

Since you can't have it all, what you need is two tables with different cartridges... That's what I do!

But seriously (as one Mr Collins once put it) you could always tame the very explicit SMMC by altering the treble setting!

Re: Buy new from B&O, rebuilt or buy new from Soundsmith?

Doctor — Fri, 04 Feb 2011 12:49:55 GMT

It really depends on what you like. The Soundsmith cartridges are extremely good and have a more hi-fi sound than the B&O ones. By that I mean they have more top end detail. This can make them a little tiring to listen to compared to the originals but that is only my opinion. They review very well and seem to be very popular with their buyers. I do have an SMMC20EN which is very good.

The Voice is the very top of the line with a price tag to match. I am sure it is superb but I think one should remember that hi-fi obeys the law of diminishing returns. Something that costs ten times as much will not be ten times better. The SMMC4 is a very good cartridge. The SMMC2 is better but will the difference be worth the money!? Only you can decide this and the problem is that there are no demo versions knocking about! You therefore need to rely on the words of others and sound discrimination is a very black art!

Re: Buy new from B&O, rebuilt or buy new from Soundsmith?

Hubbe — Fri, 04 Feb 2011 06:04:32 GMT

Thanks for the suggestion. I think I will follow your advice and send it to Alex. It is a good start.

A workshop was checking my Beogram 7000 the other day. They said that my catridge sounded as it should, but that you had to press lightly with a finger on it. This indicates that the rubber suspension is getting old. My first thought was to send it to Alex or buy a new one from B & O. That was before I was aware that MMC2 at B & O has been on the shelf for years and that no new production has been made. Would you say it's a waste to spend some more money on a SMMC1 or SMMC2 instead of a MMC4 from Soundsmith? I want the best possible sound without spending a fortune. When I looked at their website I discovered that there were also a top and the line called "The Voice".

Re: Buy new from B&O, rebuilt or buy new from Soundsmith?

Doctor — Fri, 04 Feb 2011 01:54:27 GMT

My honest opinion is that the cartridges are better than the deck in this case. Not to be too down on the deck, but the cartridges are very good! If I was looking for a long term fix, I would probably buy a Soundsmith cartridge. I think I would get a SMMC4. The alternative is to get Axel to rebuild your MMC2 - he did one of mine and it was superb.