BeoGram

Re: Which is the best Beogram ever?

Peter — Fri, 07 May 2010 10:55:16 GMT

From a sound point of view, no. I have had several 1000s and they are pleasant simple decks but no more. If you want to add to your collection, I would suggest the following:

1. A Beogram 3000 like mine - you will struggle to find a 12" arm version but Frede can make you an excellent 9" one. This is however a Thorens with a B&O arm so looks and sounds like a Thorens.

2. A Beogram 3000 Acoustical - my one of these is now part of the Clitheroe collection! This is much more like a Beogram 1000 to look at but is sonically superior by quite a margin. Not as good as the Thorens in my opinion, but not far off.

3. A Beogram 3000 Type 5240. 5244. This is a real Beogram, very cheap, beautifully made and sounds wonderful with an SP12 cartridge. Easy to find and will give most Beograms a very good run for their money. I really like the sound of the SP12 cartridges and these decks have decent suspension compared to the 1000. The 2000 was very similar though slightly simpler electronically but has the attractive if useless platter from the 1200!

Re: Which is the best Beogram ever?

Piaf — Fri, 07 May 2010 01:50:13 GMT

OK Peter,

Since I own a fine example of the “legendary” Beogram 4000 with its MMC20CL, a most competent Beogram 8000/MMC6000, not to mention an incredible Beogram 8002/MMC2; is there ANY reason to consider a Beogram 1000 to add to the “collection,” obsession?

Jeff

Re: Which is the best Beogram ever?

superdario — Tue, 23 Mar 2010 06:31:49 GMT

Peter :

The only way to do this would be to utilise the SP/MMC adapter which allows you to use an MMC20 cartridge in something like a Beogram 3000 instead of an SP12. The principles are the same in each type of cartridge but each gets smaller. My favourite is still the MMC20CL - soundproof is finishing another cartridge comparison any time!

thanks peter, i'm looking forward to read soundproofs review... ;-)

btw: my mmc20cl plays great.

Re: Which is the best Beogram ever?

Peter — Mon, 22 Mar 2010 17:46:28 GMT

The only way to do this would be to utilise the SP/MMC adapter which allows you to use an MMC20 cartridge in something like a Beogram 3000 instead of an SP12. The principles are the same in each type of cartridge but each gets smaller. My favourite is still the MMC20CL - soundproof is finishing another cartridge comparison any time!

Re: Which is the best Beogram ever?

superdario — Mon, 22 Mar 2010 16:28:49 GMT

classic:

Peters SP2

The SP2 is designed for tone arm ST/P – the 12” tone arm.

Peters SP2 is upgraded because it is re-tipped by Axel and Peters SP2 have an elliptical diamond.

/Frede

thanks frede for your expertise... would a direct comparison between peters bespoke sp2 (elliptical diamond) and a mmc20en (naked elliptical diamond) significant? or is it impossible to compare the sp with the mmc 20 cartridge?

best regards

dario

Re: Which is the best Beogram ever?

classic — Mon, 22 Mar 2010 04:09:29 GMT

The SP2 (standard) was equipped with spherical diamonds

· 12u (brown)

· 15/17u (Blue)

· 25u (Red)

· 75u Green

The cartridge is designed for the first B&O stereo arm ST/M - ST/L - ST/P.

The point.

These arms and the cartridge (SP2) have an angel for the cartridge / arm connection of app. 30dg, and the cantilever is ‘bend’ at an angel of 15dg to reach the VTA of 15dg.

Later B&O designed the ST/L-15.

This arm and the cartridge (SP7 and others like SP 9 – SP10 – SP12 – SP14) have an angel for the cartridge / arm connection of app. 15dg, and the cantilever is not ‘bend’ .

The SP1/2 cartridges cannot be used for ST/L-15 tonearms – the VTA will be wrong.

Peters SP2

The SP2 is designed for tone arm ST/P – the 12” tone arm.

Peters SP2 is upgraded because it is re-tipped by Axel and Peters SP2 have an elliptical diamond.

/Frede

Re: Which is the best Beogram ever?

Peter — Sun, 21 Mar 2010 11:31:55 GMT

I actually have a special SP2 with a bespoke tip from Axel supplied by Frede. Not sure what one would compare it with! I like SP cartridges - the SP12 is a lovely sounding cartridge and this SP2 would seem fairly similar.

Re: Which is the best Beogram ever?

superdario — Sun, 21 Mar 2010 10:39:25 GMT

Peter :

I have both up and running. Clearly one of the major differences will be the cartridge which means direct comparison of the actual deck is tricky, and the arm on my 3000 is the 12" variant, which also makes a difference. However the over riding difference is the weight of the bass with the 3000 which is much deeper than the 4000. I think some of this must be down to the record support which is far superior on the 3000.

i agree with you peter, a serious direct comparison would be tricky... simular to compare apples with oranges... ;-)

is the sound from the mmc20-xx cartridges so different to the sp-x? which diamond cut you use on the sp2 cartridge on your thorens-beogram?

im just thinking about e.g. comparing the same diamond cut from the mmc20-xx and the sp2, maybe that could be a possible way...

Re: Which is the best Beogram ever?

Peter — Sun, 21 Mar 2010 03:30:59 GMT

I have both up and running. Clearly one of the major differences will be the cartridge which means direct comparison of the actual deck is tricky, and the arm on my 3000 is the 12" variant, which also makes a difference. However the over riding difference is the weight of the bass with the 3000 which is much deeper than the 4000. I think some of this must be down to the record support which is far superior on the 3000.

Re: Which is the best Beogram ever?

superdario — Sat, 20 Mar 2010 18:59:10 GMT

Søren Hammer:

In my opinion, the 4002/4004 is the best, because it has the most beautiful design and probably the Beograms that are most likely to survive another 35 years of normal use.

;-) i hope that my beogram 4002 run another 35 years...

i had a beogram 4500 and a 5500 incl. mmc2 but i sold both. they've not that build quality compared to the legendary beogram 4000 series and i prefer also the sound of my mmc20cl pickup.

the beogram 4000 is in my opinion the perfect b&o turntable... legendary in design but maybe a bit over-engineered. the successor beogram 4002 and 6000 are also well build (no plastic) and the sound quality is really nice. all three are in the permanent collection of the museum of modern art in new york. they're truth design icons and maybe the key projects from jacob jensen for b&o.

http://www.stylepark.com/en/news/the-liberation-of-the-box-jacob-jensen-and-bang-und-olufsen-design/279932

peters beogram 3000 based on a thorens td124 is real studio stuff (made in switzerland/denmark) but personally i prefer the styling from the beogram 400x series.

it would be interesting to compare the beogram 3000 and the beogram 4000/4002 soundwise, unfortunally i've got only a beogram 4002... maybe peter is in the mood?

best regards

dario

Re: Which is the best Beogram ever?

Peter — Fri, 19 Mar 2010 17:58:33 GMT

I have seen more duff 1-5s than 20s myself but I have noticed that the 20 series and the X000 series seem to harden with age. The contact line cartridges loose the ability to track CD4 records. They still work fine in stereo though.

Re: Which is the best Beogram ever?

mediabobny — Fri, 19 Mar 2010 13:01:22 GMT

Out of curiosity, are the older series cartridges (e.g. MMC20CL) less prone to suspension failure (rubber drying out) than the newer MMC1-5 series?

Re: Which is the best Beogram ever?

Søren Hammer — Fri, 19 Mar 2010 10:42:56 GMT

I have had virtually all the tangential tracking models, 4000, 4002, 4004, 8000, 8002, 5500, The 5500 is not well built but worked fine until I sold it. The 8000 and 8002 are nice machines, datalink remote is nice with MCP 5500. The 4002/4004 is very well built and somewhat easy to service, the 4000 is also wonderful, but it is truly a devil when it comes to servicing...

In my opinion, the 4002/4004 is the best, because it has the most beautiful design and probably the Beograms that are most likely to survive another 35 years of normal use.

-Søren

Re: Which is the best Beogram ever?

Peter — Fri, 05 Mar 2010 10:42:16 GMT

I agree with you - for someone who wants to listen to vinyl, the 1700 is a real treat and very well priced. Also very little to go wrong!

Re: Which is the best Beogram ever?

Eugene — Thu, 04 Mar 2010 21:37:26 GMT

I have 2 Beogram 1700 both with working MMC20EN, paid roughly a combined $160 for both and that includes the shipping. I also own a Beogram 3000 and 3300 with MMC4 and MMC5. Paid a hell of a lot more for those two.

Now when it comes to quality of build and sound the el cheapo 1700 makes the more coveted and expensive 3000 look like a Kenner Close and Play. It isnt even close really. The Beogram 1700 is a simple, clean and well built deck. They match up well with my BM4000 2000 2400 1600 and BC1600 quite nicely. I wonder if I couldnt convert the RCA to a DIN. The Beogram 3000/3300 family of tangential decks look nice on the outside but in reality are a bit flimsy.

I see the MMC20EN cartridges alone sell for almost as much as my two 1700's or put another way I have seen bashed up Beogram 4000 decks with no cartridge go for 200 bucks and better. The unpopular Beogram 1700's are a great bargain.

Just because the product is unpopular or uninteresting doesnt mean it is bad.

BTW ... I got turned on to the Beogram 1700 reading the review at Beocentral.