BeoGram

Re: Beogram 1102 - does not play... the arm comes back

amisza63 — Wed, 04 Mar 2009 17:59:22 GMT

Ok, thanks.

Dillen:

The antiskating effect will cause a drag of the tonearm away
from the platter center, that's normal.
It's to compensate for the physics causing a drag inwards (towards the center) when playing
a record. It's a question of friction and speed of the media being lower towards the center.

I would not think that in this case the drag of the tonearm away is caused just by the antiskating effect... Because each time it did go just back precisely to the arm rest position. I would expect the arm to be lifted up before that.

Peter:

B&O recognised this problem as the range of decks that took over from the this series have a record detection mechanism - it weighs the record and if not there the arm will not drop.

Yes that is a good idea to check the weight...

Anyway, now I know and it is not difficult to remember about it.

Thank you very much

Adam

Re: Beogram 1102 - does not play... the arm comes back

Peter — Wed, 04 Mar 2009 11:09:29 GMT

B&O recognised this problem as the range of decks that took over from the this series have a record detection mechanism - it weighs the record and if not there the arm will not drop. If it is any consolation, this is one more thing to go wrong! The arms are so light weight that the stylus is unlikely to come to much harm if only done a few times!

Re: Beogram 1102 - does not play... the arm comes back

Dillen — Wed, 04 Mar 2009 10:36:35 GMT

The antiskating effect will cause a drag of the tonearm away
from the platter center, that's normal.
It's to compensate for the physics causing a drag inwards (towards the center) when playing
a record. It's a question of friction and speed of the media being lower towards the center.

And yes, (or actually no) - you shouldn't start an older Beogram without a record, they have no
protection for this.

Martin

Re: Beogram 1102 - does not play... the arm comes back

amisza63 — Wed, 04 Mar 2009 10:27:47 GMT

What about my question? Thanks

Adam

Re: Beogram 1102 - does not play... the arm comes back

amisza63 — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 07:53:51 GMT

Hi ,

1) I meant that when the needle is landing smoothly on the surface of the record that it plays music nicely and safely (I hope).

But when a) the needle landed on the edge of the record or outside of the record (like I had before the regulation) or b) when there is no record at all then the needle is put down on the platter and dragged back.

So one has to be careful not to press 33 or 45 when there is no record on the platter. And not to press 33 when there is 45 SP or EP record. In these cases the needle is put down on the platter and dragged back. This must be very harmful for the needle.

Is such a behaviour normal for this type of Beogram (1102) or there is still something wrong with my player???

2) Thanks. Yes, for cleaning records, you are right.

3) Thanks, just found nice strobo disc picture to cut out

4) I see.

Adam

Re: Beogram 1102 - does not play... the arm comes back

tournedos — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 05:35:11 GMT

Hi Adam, glad you got it working

I don't quite undertand 1) - do you mean the turntable still drags the needle, or are you just concerned that it did before your repairs and adjustments? This model is just mechanics, so if something is stuck or misadjusted, anything can happen.

2) I believe TURN should just start the platter turning without engaging the arm mechanism. It's very handy for cleaning the record.

3) Google for something like "turntable stroboscope disk" and you should find a PDF of a stroboscope pattern - then just print it out and put it on! Of course light it with a mains powered lamp (incandescent / halogen / conventional fluorescent).

4) IMHO not really if your current cartridge is good. All of the original MMCs you can find are old and may just as well be actually worse than your 20S, even if they are advertised as never used. It's not the actual stylus that is the problem, but the suspension inside the cartridge. They get hard over time just sitting on the shelf. Especially the MMCx000 that was originally installed on these are probably all bad now.

If you really want an improvement in sound (and the 20S is not bad, either!) you should get a new compatible SMMC cartridge from Sound-Smith. Unfortunately they start at even more expensive prices than the replacements for the later MMCx cartridges, so it may only be practical for the more high-end turntable models.

But, if you can find a working original MMC20 for a reasonable price, it's good to have one as a spare if nothing else. I managed to grab a good MMC20EN for 25 euros last year on eBay, and it's still in service in my BG6000.

Re: Beogram 1102 - does not play... the arm comes back

amisza63 — Tue, 03 Mar 2009 04:10:17 GMT

Ok. So I did give a try and played about with these excentrics for a while and this way moved the landing point more towards the centre.

And now it seems to work OK - the needle goes down on the record, plays the record (hooray!!!) till the end, the then needle goes up, the arm goes back to the rest position and the platter stops rotating.

I would like to thank you all: Andy, Peter and Martin for help.

But I have some more questions - doubts:

1) The needle was dragged back in the lowered position (scratching) when it was moved down too early and did not found the record. Much safer for the needle would be if it was lifted up before the arm was moved back. The same happens when there is no record on the platter. When I press 33 or 45 the arm is moving to its defined landing point, the needle goes down and is dragged on the platter back to the arm rest position.

I have read somewhere that B&O deck players are quite sophisticated regarding safety of the needle and the record. So is this kind of behaviour normal for B&O 1102 or there is still something else wrong with it?

2) The control button has 5 functions: 33/Stop, 45/Pause and Turn. What is the use of the TURN function? I know it is for turning but why/when should one use it?

3) I am used to my previous record player which has stroboscope light. This B&O 1102 has rpm regulation wheel but I cannot see any way to check if the rpm is accurate or not? Is there? I mean is there a way to do it without any special additional electronic equipment?

4) I am not sure, but it seems that this model 1102 is one of the basic models of B&O record players. MMC20S is the basic cartridge from MMC20 series. I have read quite a lot data and info about B&O cartridges and needles. But sound does depend not only on the cartridge but on other factors as well. My question is practical: Would the upgrade of this specific deck to a more sophisticated cartridge from MMC20 series bring significant or any upgrade in the sound?

In other words: do you think it is worth hunting for e.g. MMC20EN? In order to replace MM20S in THIS specific deck?

5) Do you have any spare protection cover for MMC20?

Regards

Adam

Re: Beogram 1102 - does not play... the arm comes back

amisza63 — Mon, 02 Mar 2009 04:25:16 GMT

So the little black circles on the drawing actually are the same excentrics? This was one of my suspects because it is also marked on the drawing with A and B... but it just look so different. And the given information is just contradictory, so I suspected that each of the drawn small circles-discs are something else... In one place on the drawing it is marked that "IN" is clockwise and "OUT" counterclockwise while in other place the other way round. I guess I will have to judge this by tests.

Thank you, I will try this when back at home - in the evening.

Regards

Adam

Re: Beogram 1102 - does not play... the arm comes back

Jandyt — Sun, 01 Mar 2009 18:43:18 GMT

Ok, on your diagram with the red circles, where you put " I can also recognise this"
What looks like two spring clips actually have a tiny brass screw head in the middle of each one.
Turn this screw with a small screwdriver, and it becomes immediately apparent what they mean by 'excentrics'.
The screw was stiff, so make sure you have a good fitting screwdriver. You'll probably have to adjust them with very small movements, many times before you get it right.

Ther lower, left one in your pic, is for 30cm.
Hope this helps.

Re: Beogram 1102 - does not play... the arm comes back

Jandyt — Sun, 01 Mar 2009 18:33:20 GMT

Got the answer! Are you still there?

Re: Beogram 1102 - does not play... the arm comes back

amisza63 — Sun, 01 Mar 2009 18:24:29 GMT

Hope you can manage to sort this out. Pls let me know. I gave up for today.

I have to go to sleep now, but surely will be back and check for the answers and suggestions tomorrow.

Re: Beogram 1102 - does not play... the arm comes back

Jandyt — Sun, 01 Mar 2009 18:14:15 GMT

Adam, I'm with you, and we will get this sorted sooner or later.
I just had a look under my platter, and it's identical to yours.
I must admit the diagram in the manual is truly awful.
If you bear with me, I'm just going to have a meddle and see if I can make an adjustment to my own.

Andy T.

Re: Beogram 1102 - does not play... the arm comes back

amisza63 — Sun, 01 Mar 2009 17:52:50 GMT

Thanks very much for alll your help, but still I get nothing more from the instruction picture than I did in the beginning.

I will try to explain my doubts.

From the instruction picture:

I. I can guess where the centre spindle of the platter is

II. I do recognize the ring for SP 7" records

III. I can find in my record deck the two small plates with small discs in bottom right corner.

But I can not find in my deck any of these A and B circles and excentrics which I can see on the instruction drawing and probably are for regulation. Where are they? And when I find them how to make this regulation?

To be sure that you understand my question I put some marks and question on the instruction drawing and here they are:

my_questions

picture_of_my_deck-1

picture_of_my_deck-2

Hope you can help

Thank you

Adam

Re: Beogram 1102 - does not play... the arm comes back

Peter — Sat, 28 Feb 2009 04:11:12 GMT

It sounds like the anti skating is fine. I agree the pictures are wilfully obtuse! The round bit in the centre is the spendle and this is looking from the front! A little tweak to the 30cm one is all that is required. I am afraid B&O service manuals are all a bit like this - you clearly need to have been shown first!!

Re: Beogram 1102 - does not play... the arm comes back

amisza63 — Fri, 27 Feb 2009 20:44:38 GMT

Thanks Andy,

I am looking at my record deck and I cannot see these excentrics A and B :-(

Here are the photos how it looks when I take of the platter.

Pls point where the excentrics are. Please also help how to adjust landing points.

Also on the drawing I cannot read what are the real dimension for 30cm record and for 17 cm record.

And how to set antiscating?

http://picasaweb.google.com/amisza63/20090228?authkey=Gv1sRgCP_WnfeT7NrYEg#5307654191819278114

Regards

Adam