BeoGram

Re: Soundsmith huge price raise

joeyboygolf — Tue, 09 Jun 2009 03:03:20 GMT

I have now had time to test the last batch of 4 *MMC4's that Axel has rebuilt for me and I am very impressed.

They all sound the same to my ears!

A most impressive service.

Re: Soundsmith huge price raise

DSJR — Wed, 06 May 2009 09:10:30 GMT

My problem with these prices is that low volume audio manufacture has increased in price when mass market audio (often made in China) has plummeted in price, hence the perfectly adequate DVD players you can buy in Tesco's for well under twenty quid..... I suspect a new MMC1/20CL if made now by B&O would be a good few hundred pounds (the Shure V15 III, which was about SP12/SP15 level finished life in mk V form at £300 at least few years ago), so I think a genuinely improved, hand made cartridge would cost what it does to be honest. My only thoughts are that the later Beograms would be the limiting factor perhaps???????

I think the re-builders mentioned here (Expert Styli and Axel) in addition to Soundsmith are well versed in dealing with worn out cantilever suspensions I think. I have a collection of cartridges of many makers including B&O and an MMC20CL I've been using tracks to a pretty good standard still, although I accept it's perhaps not quite as good as when new, despite never being used before.

I would concur that the suspensions are B&O's weak point, the frequency response nosediving in treble frequencies if the cartridge is used in temperatures below 22 degrees (certainly this applies since the SP15 model and it wouldn't surprise me if the older SP models suffer too). If any of these people can cure this they have my support.

I can't afford to do any real business with Axel as yet, but he seems to offer a good service and at not too high a price.

Re: Soundsmith huge price raise

burantek — Wed, 06 May 2009 07:53:19 GMT

joeyboygolf:
I am looking forward to the review by the mystery expert!!

hmmm...

might that be: The Stig Styg?

sorry, i couldn't help it...

Re: Soundsmith huge price raise

joeyboygolf — Wed, 06 May 2009 04:54:23 GMT

Over the last couple of years I have bought at least 12 Soundsmith SMMC4 cartridges at $149 plus carriage. The first batch of 6 were bought for me by a relative who lives in the States and ferried them over for me as a present! Wasn't that nice of her???

Subsequent purchases have been via the Soundsmith website with carriage at $35 for a single and a bit less per unit if the order is for multiples. Courier has always been UPS who collected around £22 import duty per cartridge.

The enormous rise in price has occurred since our currency went down the gurgler!! It was coming close to 1:1 at one stage when the £ was strong against the $ and the cartridges seemed cheap for the sound quality achieved. My last batch cost around £165 with costs which is not such a good deal!!

I still believe that the SMMC4 is a better sounding product than the B&O original but the price (NOT Soundsmith's fault) increase because of the exchange rate has prompted me to look into other avenues.

I initially sent 3 broken cartridges to Axel who quickly reported that one of the MMC4's had damaged coils and was irrepairable. The MMC4 and MMC2 were duly returned, repaired and tested within 7-10 days. I had asked for them to be repaired so that the end result was as close as possible to the original specification.

The MMC4 had new tapered Aluminium cantilever, new elliptical diamond and new suspension. The MMC2 had new sapphire cantilever, new contact line diamond and new suspension.

On test, both units sound most impressive with my preference being for the MMC2 rather than the MMC4. I can't say why, just that my ears prefer the MMC2 so far. In the past, I have always found the MMC2 to be a little bright for my taste but not the repaired example.

As a comparison, the combined cost of both repairs is in the same ball park as the cost of one new SMMC4. Another batch of 4 damaged cartridges has just gone off in the post to Axel yesterday.

I am looking forward to the review by the mystery expert!!

Re: Soundsmith huge price raise

Medogsfat — Wed, 06 May 2009 03:27:07 GMT

I have always been a big supporter of Sound Smith cartridges and remain so. The only downside for me personally is the fall of the GBP against the US dollar (hence the comments re:- price increases which isn't the case) and the extortionate import duties levied by our wonderful Customs & Excise. There is also our equally marvellous Royal Mail who added their own huge slice of pie to the final cost for simply picking it up for me.

This is the one reason I would be tempted to use Axel's rebuilding service.

In summary, if I lived in the USA then Soundsmith would undoubtedly be my first choice. Living in the EU makes Axel's rebuilding service more attractive - providing the results are as good as we all hope of course.

Chris.

Re: Soundsmith huge price raise

Peter — Tue, 05 May 2009 16:53:33 GMT

Fair points - the MMC2 was repaired using a sapphire tube and a contact line diamond the original was snapped so it needed new cantilever and diamond - I attach a photo of the two cantilevers of an original and the repair - prize for the person who guesses the new one! (Actually no prize because i have forgotten which is which). The suspension is changed so the moving part of the cartridge is new.The only sign that it has been repaired is that the end of the cartridge has a cut through it.

The other cartridges I had done have a tapered aluminium cantilever and shibata stylus - again done to a high standard.

Soundsmith offer new cartridges - with a warranty. Axel does not but he does offer a cartridge indistinguishable from an original in looks (which the Soundsmith is not) and from my own experience sounds excellent. However I have sent an example of both a shibata tipped MMC20 cartridge from Axel and a SMMC20EN cartridge to a well known B&O expert who will be giving his unbiased verdict. Watch this space.

Re: Soundsmith huge price raise

Retipper — Mon, 04 May 2009 07:16:50 GMT

There are many comments here; some are accurate, some are very innaccurate. Please allow me to set the record straight, so that people are not misled.

We have NOT raised prices in many, many years. We have NEVER raied the price of the Soundsmith SMMC4, and SMMC3, although our costs have risen substantially !! The prices for the new Soundsmith SMMC2 and SMMC1 have NOT changed in many years - and our cost for materials has gone up far more than for the SMMC4 and SMMC3.

Hand made?? Yes. Everyone. Serialized.

Retipping old original cartridges?? Be careful; many orignal cartridges have failed internally by now. They are at least 23 years old, as production stopped in 1986!!! And they do fail internally with age.....

The retipping mentioned here on an MMC2 may have restored the sound from a broken unit, but what did they retip it WITH?? The original cantilever was a Sapphire tube, with a nude contact line style of diamond. What was used to rebuild it?? Was it an aluminum cantielver and bonded elliptical ?? If so, you will find that on our SMMC4 ~ AND you get a new cartridge, not one that might fail soon or already be in the process of failing. Retipping "only" on a 23 + year old B&O cartridge is risky...... It would be good to get some answers - if they are putting very high end styli and cantilevers (contact line/Boron) and if its very properly done, on original MMC1's and 2's, at a good price, AND rebuilding the innards so they don't fail, as we do, and placing a warranty on it, THEN that would be a great service for B&O customers! (and it would keep me from working till midnight.....) but if not......

B&O customers need to be very careful about retipping only - for old carts. That is a risky investment....and if you find new old stock...make CERTAIN it is warranteed to avoid disappointment.

We have done our best to keep B&O table owners in good sounding reliable cartridges; they are warranteed, and we stand behind them. We have always been available to answer questions, and our customers have many.....

Thank you for allowing me to set the record straight...

Peter Ledermann / President/Chief Engineer/Soundsmith

Re: Soundsmith huge price raise

Peter — Fri, 20 Mar 2009 10:53:28 GMT

Looks very good. Could do with an English translation - I note he will also replace sapphire cantilvers and even has Shibata tips for those with quad records.

Re: Soundsmith huge price raise

yachadm — Fri, 20 Mar 2009 10:35:37 GMT

I didn't even know they existed!!!

You were sitting on a secret here....

Let Peter know to post this in an appropriate place - this is a very worthwhile resource for all of us.

Thanks a stack!

Menahem

Re: Soundsmith huge price raise

ouverture — Fri, 20 Mar 2009 10:24:50 GMT

in the end I sent my MMC2 to Axel in Germany ( east of Dortmund )

http://www.schallplattennadeln.de/d_4346.htm

he replaced the cantilever as well, excellent job and fast turnaround

HIGHLY RECOMMENDED - and my LP's now sound better than ever :-)

Axel Schürholz , Bachstr.23 B , 59590 Geseke, Germany
Telephone +49 2942 987 853 FAX +49 2942 974 9223

Re: Soundsmith huge price raise

ouverture — Sun, 15 Mar 2009 07:18:20 GMT

thanks for the heads up Menahem :-)

I see from the website that they rebuild MMC1 and MMC2 for $296 USD

http://www.sound-smith.com/cartridges/bolookup.html#rebuild

MMC2 - REBUILD (ONLY IF the stylus and cantilever are intact/not broken)
MMC1 - REBUILD (ONLY IF the stylus and cantilever are intact/not broken)
(For the MMC1 & 2's - we are often successful in our efforts, but if the stylus is worn, or if it is damaged during the rebuilding process and cannot be repaired, there is no charge.
We do NOT rebuild the original MMC5, MMC4 or MMC3, or any other model of the SMMC20 series.
SP series styli - ($119.95 for those with Bonded Elliptical stylus, $179.95 for those with a Nude Elliptical stylus)

Re: Soundsmith huge price raise

yachadm — Sun, 15 Mar 2009 02:39:19 GMT

Beware of NOS (New Old Stock) MMC cartridges.

The diamond tips are in top shape, as they should be - never having been used, but what you can't see is the internal rubber mounting. That internal rubber mounting is THE weak link in the entire B&O cartridge technology.

After 15+ years, the odds are better than even that the rubber decay is well advanced, and after a few months, your "new" cartridge will be good for only the trashcan.

I highly doubt that any retipping service is viable on a B&O cartridge - no retipping service is going to be able to get at the insides of a sealed B&O cartridge to service the rubber mounting.

Retipping is just that - replacing the stylus - and if you CAN see an existing diamond stylus on your B&O cartridge, well then, it don't need no retipping!!!

Having said that, Soundsmith does offer a REBUILDING service for MMC2's and MMC1's at a lower price than a new cartridge, so if you have either of the top models, then that would probably be the way to go.

Menahem

Re: Soundsmith huge price raise

ouverture — Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:07:28 GMT

the cost on new MMC2 and other MMC models is eye boggling

http://www.lpgear.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=LG&Category_Code=B_O

Re: Soundsmith huge price raise

ouverture — Sat, 14 Mar 2009 21:05:30 GMT

has anybody used Expert Stylus in Ashstead for re-tipping MMC stylii , before I call them on Monday ??

Expert Stylus & Cartridge Co Tel 01372 276604
Harriotts Lane
Ashstead
Surrey KT21 2QB

http://www.expertstylus.co.uk

Re: Soundsmith huge price raise

yachadm — Mon, 16 Feb 2009 10:51:09 GMT

On my 2 Beograms - a BG6000 Quad, and a BG4500, I've had Soundsmith cartridges (SMMC20CL+ and SMMC2) for over 2 years now.

Both of them became defective at different times (I have no idea what their defect rate is), and SoundSmith repaired them both at no charge.

For that level of customer service alone, their cartridges are worth it - we can be assured that if there is a problem in the future, it gets taken care of with no excuses.

Menahem