BeoGram

Re: Beogram 1700

Phil Hunt — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 21:29:19 GMT

Where are you located? If you're able to pick them up, I could let you try 2 carts. Phil

Re: Beogram 1700

Affejunge — Mon, 10 Nov 2008 11:56:56 GMT

Well been playing with the 20CL and my 1700. I just cannot get it to sound good. I replaced the RCA plugs, nice to see the wire inside are bright shinny copper! But I am still getting major distortion. Especially on 'S'. Whenever an 'S' is sung..it sounds like ssss-snakes-ssss.

Yet there are positives...this cartridge is amazing at reproducing low frequencies and voice is more clear, even with the distortion. Yet highs seem muted, especially when compared to the Shure cart. The longer an album plays, the worse the highs get!

Would a mat help?

The stylus looks good, nice and pointy/sharp!

Re: Beogram 1700

Peter — Sun, 09 Nov 2008 08:28:33 GMT

The CL really does need to be warm - A light bulb shining on it will often help! It is in my opinion the best cartridge made by B&O. It should outperform your Dual if it is working properly. One fault with most B&O decks in the lack of record support. A felt mat cut to cover the grey areas can help if you do not mind the looks. By the way, this is what your 20CL stylus should look like if in decent condition.

Re: Beogram 1700

tournedos — Sun, 09 Nov 2008 07:12:37 GMT

However mint the 20CL might seem, it's still at least 25 years old. Even if the stylus is good, the suspension may not (or possibly will not) have the qualities it had when new.

Anyway, I would check the cables if all you did was sand off rust from the connectors. These turntables did not have RCA connectors originally, so the whole replacement may have been a horrible botch job to begin with, let alone now when everything has corroded.

Re: Beogram 1700

Affejunge — Sat, 08 Nov 2008 18:39:17 GMT

Well to bring this thread back.....

So I got am MMC20CL off ebay for not too much and hooked it up. To be honest, it sounds "okay". I have been using a friend's dual 505 with a new tone arm and the Shure 15V cartridge. After going back and forth many times.. I think the Dual sounds slightly (very slightly) better. There still seems to be that distortion on highs that the Dual doesn't have. When I set the tracking for higher on the 1700 (to 2 vice the recommended 1) it sounded better, but still the Dual edged it out. I did not want to set the tracking force any higher for fear of damaging the record/stylus.

Does this make sense? I though the MMC20CL was supposed to "blow away" most other carts? I am really thinking now about replacing the RCA cables in back of the 1700 (they were way corroded, but I was able to sand it off).

What else would you recommend? Otherwise I will probably buy my friends Dual. Anyone wanna buy a near mint MMC20CL?

Re: Beogram 1700

DSJR — Sat, 01 Nov 2008 17:26:23 GMT

Hello everyone.

The 1700 was an excellent little deck and more than compared with a Rega Planar 2 at the time - we sold both. The best cartridge for it was the MMC2EN, which opened the sonic window up well. I actually prefer the sonics of this deck to the 'Gram 1800 which replaced it, but that's another story...

When setting the arm, I'd readily agree with the previous posts and to add that the anti-skate (bias correction in the UK) is applied internally with a spring arrangement which is pre-set as I remember. When "floating" the arm, let it return to the right and "0" the counterweight scale with the stylus just level with where the top surface of an LP would be, then rotate the whole assembly towards the pivot until the scale reads 1.25 or thereabouts, which seemed about right for the EN model. If the cartridge is still servicable, the sound should be fine with little if any distortion, right through to side end.

A shame the "new" Soundsmith cartridges are so expensive, but if the deck is in good condition, I'd try to find a new belt and enjoy some good music on it, looking to eBay or similar for a replacement cartridge.

By the way, keep the cartridge warm, as in colder UK weather, especially at this time of year, the sound dulls off a bit if the room is kept below 20 degrees C (well catalogued at the time as I remember).

Re: Beogram 1700

mediabobny — Thu, 30 Oct 2008 00:22:22 GMT

Mark, glad to hear the highs are clear! With regard to #1, yes, this is normal. It's the anti-skating force that causes the tone arm to slide laterally. I suspect that on your turntable this force is applied automatically, as opposed to a manual adjustment. If it is manual, the adjustment would be on the bottom of the turntable. Still, you should be able to 'float' the tone arm for the purpose of calibrating the tracking force. I don't know the answer to #2. My guess is that it's either a tracking force issue, or worn needle. I'd try increasing the tracking force by .5 gram to see if this helps. If not I'd look for a stylus magnifier to check the condition of the needle. They show up occasionally on eBay. If you're near a B&O service center you could bring your cartridge to them and have them take a look. Good luck!

Re: Beogram 1700

Affejunge — Wed, 29 Oct 2008 00:34:13 GMT

So cleaned the rca hookup with a Dremmle. Now there is no more distortion on the highs! I guess sanding off all that corrosion helped. I also used your method for cleaning the stylus.

2 remaining issues:

1. In the above I mention how as soon as the tone arm lifted from the record it pulled back to the right and "went home". Is this normal?

2. There is a constant staic. Not noticable on "rock" (Neil Diamond sounds awesome on vinyl) But very noticble on classical. The effect is lessened the closer you get to the center. Could this be a cartridge issue? I do not mind spending (to me) big money from Sound Smith for a replacement cartridge if it fixes the static issue... but will be :< if it does not.

Thanks again, Mediabob..you rock!

- Mark

Re: Beogram 1700

mediabobny — Wed, 29 Oct 2008 00:10:17 GMT

'Not familiar with a Tcc TC-750 specifically, but it should be fine. I assume you mean MMC4000. That should fit a 1700 as well.

Re: Beogram 1700

Affejunge — Mon, 27 Oct 2008 23:20:13 GMT

Hmmm...tried this, unfortunatly, as soon as the tone arm "floats" it pulls back all the way to the right. So, basically turnned the counterwieght until it would just stay in place (on the record) and set that to 0.

There seems to be systematic static on playback and the highs are REALLY distorted. That said, there is the cartridge issue, plus the amp it hooks up to is a crappy 10 year old SONY which I never liked, but it the only one that I own that has a built in pre-amp. I am going to order a pre-amp tomorrow and hook it up to my proper reciever. What do you think of the TCC TC-750? I know it looks a little budget, but since I am only tipping my toe in that this point.... and the reviews on Amazon or pretty solid.

I cleaned the record and the random pops went away. Just have the rythmic static. I know, I should try other records as well as this one may be damaged. Once again... really appreciate your input.

Can the 1700 only take the MMC20 series? What about the MMC4400?

Re: Beogram 1700

mediabobny — Mon, 27 Oct 2008 19:20:28 GMT

You're welcome. Crackle-pop is due to dust in the record grooves - you should look on eBay for a Discwasher Record Care Kit. Some of them also include a stylus brush plus stylus cleaner fluid.

You need to re-calibrate the tracking force. Here's how: Play a record and while playing it unplug the turntable. Adjust the tracking force until the tone arm 'floats' in the air. At this point turn the force gauge to read 0 while keeping the couterweight still. Then simply turn the counterweight to the desired setting. Hope this makes sense.

Re: Beogram 1700

Affejunge — Mon, 27 Oct 2008 12:07:24 GMT

Thanks for the advice!

Will try cleaning it. Looked at the tip under a magnifying glass. Still looks shiny! Though there is tons of crud around it. I will try and clean it. Thanks for the advice on how to. As for tracking.... it is really wierd.. It seems zeroed out, but the force needs to be set at 7-8 to keep on the record. Otherwise the needle just drifts back out.

There is a lot of crackle-pop when I play records. Is this do to the dirty stylus or dirty records or both?

Thought about sanding the RCA cables. But it looks like the plating that was on there there has actually corroded off. Just the bare metal now. Will see if I can make it shine again.

Thank you for the tips!

Re: Beogram 1700

mediabobny — Mon, 27 Oct 2008 00:45:33 GMT

Two things I'd check first: #1 - Make sure the tracking force is set correctly. I believe the MMC20EN tracks at 1.2 g. Number 2: Clean the needle - it could have 20+ years of crud caked on it. Since you probably don't have a professional stylus cleaning brush/cleaner, the next best thing is a Q-Tip (cotton bud) dampened (but not wet) with methyl (rubbing) alcohol. Lightly brush the needle in the same direction the record would track it. Try to make sure it's sharp using a magnifying glass if you have one.

If there's corrosion on the cables I wouldn't replace them. Try using a fine grade sandpaper to remove the corrosion first. Good luck.

Beogram 1700

Affejunge — Sun, 26 Oct 2008 20:14:50 GMT

I just picked up a Beogram 1700 today at a garage sale for $20 US. It works perfectly, but I am afraid it needs a new stylus. There is distortion on the high frequencies and some on the low as well. Also, there is corrosion on the RCA cables and it looks on the stylus as well. So what to do? How can I make sure the stylus is bad?

It seem SoundSmith is the place to go to replace the MMC20EN on it.

How do I replace the RCA cables? I was just going to cut the cord and splice a new one in. Or should I open the box up and replace the entire cable, soldering (I am assuming) the new one to the device?

Thanks for the help in advance