General Forum

Re: Pioneer exit plasma production

355f — Sat, 08 Mar 2008 09:29:30 GMT

Bingo:

Pioneer NOT pulling out of plasma!
OK, Pioneer fans, you can breathe easy: contrary to rumours circulating earlier this week, Pioneer is NOT pulling out of the plasma market. It's just 'restructuring'.

In an official announcement today, Pioneer stated that it's going to continue with production of its upcoming (9th) generation of plasma TVs as normal. But thereafter it intends to outsource the production of the core plasma panels to another party, most likely Matsushita.
HOWEVER! The announcement is at pains to clarify that this outsourcing for gen 10 and beyond does not mean future Pioneer TVs will merely be rebadged versions of another manufacturer's TVs. Rather the plan is that Pioneer will simply be procuring panel modules into which it will then incorporate the various proprietary technologies that have given rise to the current award-winning KURO TVs.
Fingers crossed these plans all come to fruition, and that we can continue to get our hands for years to come on what are for my money currently the best flat TVs in the business.
http://www.homecinemachoice.com/cgi-bin/shownews.php?id=9500

Its the same situation for the new oled screens. Most major manufacturers have joined together so that the technology can be developed in a more cost effective way. The lessons were learned after the demise of SED, Which was a superior technology to LCD and plasma but pricing meant it would neevr be a major competitor to established technology

Re: Pioneer exit plasma production

Puncher — Sat, 08 Mar 2008 07:16:48 GMT

Greg:
When I was working at Apple, which was recently, most panels used were from Chi Mei, or LG. This is partly due to increased Mac sales, meaning additional suppliers are needed, but I suspect mostly to increase margin - Chi Mei panels are almost certainly cheaper than Samsung - even taking into account Apple's relationship with Samsung. Sadly, the Chi Mei panels are noticably poorer image quality and seemed more prone to failure.

So, it's actually the Apple fans who are being charged way over the odds for inferior panels

Re: Pioneer exit plasma production

Bingo — Sat, 08 Mar 2008 07:07:58 GMT

Pioneer NOT pulling out of plasma!

OK, Pioneer fans, you can breathe easy: contrary to rumours circulating earlier this week, Pioneer is NOT pulling out of the plasma market. It's just 'restructuring'.

In an official announcement today, Pioneer stated that it's going to continue with production of its upcoming (9th) generation of plasma TVs as normal. But thereafter it intends to outsource the production of the core plasma panels to another party, most likely Matsushita.

HOWEVER! The announcement is at pains to clarify that this outsourcing for gen 10 and beyond does not mean future Pioneer TVs will merely be rebadged versions of another manufacturer's TVs. Rather the plan is that Pioneer will simply be procuring panel modules into which it will then incorporate the various proprietary technologies that have given rise to the current award-winning KURO TVs.

Fingers crossed these plans all come to fruition, and that we can continue to get our hands for years to come on what are for my money currently the best flat TVs in the business.

http://www.homecinemachoice.com/cgi-bin/shownews.php?id=9500

Re: Pioneer exit plasma production

Greg — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 15:27:33 GMT

Flappo The Grate:
moxxey:
Flappo The Grate:
so does that mean that since samsung make bno's screens , sony's are to a higher standard ?
Don't forget that Samsung supply the Apple LCD panels, too, after Apple invested $150 million in their LCD plant a few years ago.

very interesting , mr bond
are you thinking what i'm thinking ?

Actually, Samsung only supply some of Apple's LCDs - for example, the small LCDs used in iPods and a very small fraction of those panels used in iMacs and portable machines. When I was working at Apple, which was recently, most panels used were from Chi Mei, or LG. This is partly due to increased Mac sales, meaning additional suppliers are needed, but I suspect mostly to increase margin - Chi Mei panels are almost certainly cheaper than Samsung - even taking into account Apple's relationship with Samsung. Sadly, the Chi Mei panels are noticably poorer image quality and seemed more prone to failure.

Back on topic, I have a Kuro myself (having reluctantly decided against B&O because of very poor price/quality ratio) and it's fantastic. I suspect the best TV available right now. It's really funny, as a B&O fan, to hear people saying how expensive/poor value Pioneer sets are - these people would probably keel over and die if they knew how much a B&O TV costs!

Re: Pioneer exit plasma production

TerryM — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 08:18:10 GMT

kawo:

The number I heard during our visit in Struer was approx. 100k TV's across all models per year.
Karsten

I appreciate that B & O reduce manufacturing costs by buying in their panels from Panasonic,and Samsung,but without cross subsidy from other parts of their business operations can their TV operation be viable with alleged annual sales of only 100000 units?

It is claimed that Pioneer's latest declared annual sales were 468000 TVs.

Re: Pioneer exit plasma production

Bingo — Fri, 07 Mar 2008 04:59:04 GMT

They should lower the price drasticly in my opinion. No one can take a brand seriously who charges prices that were common seven years ago for plasma televisions:-) The market has changed, you know..

Re: Pioneer exit plasma production

kuliand — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 14:45:12 GMT

kawo:
The number I heard during our visit in Struer was approx. 100k TV's across all models per year.
Karsten

it's actually better than i thought but im sure they could hit 200k if they reduced the price a bit/well alot so they weren't 7 times the price of similar size screens

Re: Pioneer exit plasma production

kawo — Wed, 05 Mar 2008 11:57:46 GMT

The number I heard during our visit in Struer was approx. 100k TV's across all models per year.

Karsten

Re: Pioneer exit plasma production

kuliand — Wed, 05 Mar 2008 07:18:01 GMT

does B&O ever put sales figures in it's financial reports? or do we just not get sales on specific products. Then we could at least see how many TV's they are selling.

Re: Pioneer exit plasma production

soundproof — Wed, 05 Mar 2008 07:09:24 GMT

Bingo:
I hope B&O takes lessons from this. Pioneer sold much less then they expected. But due to their high prices compared to the competition and despite their better looks and picture quality, they didn't succeed. So If Pioneer can't with asking more then 5000 euro for a full HD plasma with stunning picture, can B&O still charge more then 15000 euro for just a good picture? I doubt it.

Ah, what's happening is that Pioneer is reducing its commitment to creating its own plants, but are continuing with the manufacture of large plasma panels meeting their Kuro specifications.
They've simply found that it's uneconomic to have their own plants. This raises "can they keep their solutions proprietary" issues, but nonetheless probably makes financial sense, given the complexity of establishing such plants.

But you're right. Image quality is a really hard area in which to be asking a superpremium price these days, given the high quality of much less expensive panels.

Re: Pioneer exit plasma production

Bingo — Wed, 05 Mar 2008 07:04:34 GMT

I hope B&O takes lessons from this. Pioneer sold much less then they expected. But due to their high prices compared to the competition and despite their better looks and picture quality, they didn't succeed. So If Pioneer can't with asking more then 5000 euro for a full HD plasma with stunning picture, can B&O still charge more then 15000 euro for just a good picture? I doubt it.

Re: Pioneer exit plasma production

soundproof — Tue, 04 Mar 2008 16:03:38 GMT

You're quite right, I stand corrected. Well, that suddenly improved my impression of Bravia - was told it was Samsung, and should have checked.

Re: Pioneer exit plasma production

mbee — Tue, 04 Mar 2008 15:52:47 GMT

Bravia panels are made by Sharp, not by Samsung...

Re: Pioneer exit plasma production

Flappo The Grate — Tue, 04 Mar 2008 12:28:08 GMT

moxxey:
Flappo The Grate:
so does that mean that since samsung make bno's screens , sony's are to a higher standard ?
Don't forget that Samsung supply the Apple LCD panels, too, after Apple invested $150 million in their LCD plant a few years ago.

very interesting , mr bond

are you thinking what i'm thinking ?

Re: Pioneer exit plasma production

kuliand — Tue, 04 Mar 2008 10:07:54 GMT

Well certainly surprising they have pulled out of manufacturing the panles seen as they where in the plasma market early guess they should of focused more on selling to third parties like sharp does with it's lcd panels. I think the reason sony uses samsung panels was that they were late o the flat screen market and didn't want to play catch up sony are now spending a lot on oled technology and panels so they should be well placed for what comes after lcd and plasma lets hope B&O switch's to oled as fast as possible when the time comes.