General Forum

Re: How to move from all B&O to some B&O

Sun, 24 Feb 2008 07:24:02 GMT

BarryAndrew:
Second is that you have got to be looking through the wrong coloured glasses if you think that Arcam produces equipment of the sort that you describe. I am all in favour of speaking in favour of B&O's positives and negatives but you are fooling yourself if you believe that it is THAT good.

Maybe this forum should have a monthly "Rose Tinted Spectacles Award" - LEE?

Re: How to move from all B&O to some B&O

joeyboygolf — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 07:06:59 GMT

BarryAndrew:

joeyboygolf
Don't understand your comments at all! However I will not try and convince you of my argument any more.
Two small points though. One is repetition -- ALL my a-v equipment is B&O not just some of it and if I choose to go in a different direction it doesn't mean that I don't enjoy B&O.
Second is that you have got to be looking through the wrong coloured glasses if you think that Arcam produces equipment of the sort that you describe. I am all in favour of speaking in favour of B&O's positives and negatives but you are fooling yourself if you believe that it is THAT good.
I will take your message as an invitation to leave the forum and will do so from now on.

I am aware of Arcam products. In fact, they started not 15 miles from me in a shed outside Cambridge and I am aware of their current ranges. The A60 was indeed ground breaking in it's time and has achieved cult status.

Unusually, in recent months, I have voiced an opinion rather than merely answering technical queries. Unfortunately, my adversary has decided to take his bat and ball home!

Oh well.

Re: How to move from all B&O to some B&O

Peter — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 06:43:47 GMT

BarryAndrew:
joeyboygolf
Don't understand your comments at all! However I will not try and convince you of my argument any more.
Two small points though. One is repetition -- ALL my a-v equipment is B&O not just some of it and if I choose to go in a different direction it doesn't mean that I don't enjoy B&O.
Second is that you have got to be looking through the wrong coloured glasses if you think that Arcam produces equipment of the sort that you describe. I am all in favour of speaking in favour of B&O's positives and negatives but you are fooling yourself if you believe that it is THAT good.
I will take your message as an invitation to leave the forum and will do so from now on.

I don't see why you should leave - I hope that you will be able to shed some light on integrating other products with B&O. I for one will be most interested to hear about your experiences.

Re: How to move from all B&O to some B&O

soundproof — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 06:38:01 GMT

@ Barry

I should add something to my "HDMI 1.3 does wonders with the sound" comment above. That is if you have HD-Audio sources. Most of us don't, as of now, as these are found on the new Blu-ray and HD-DVD (RIP) formats, and in addition we'd need the producers to actually create such files.

For this reason, I personally don't consider HMDI 1.3 compatibility a must today, and think you'll find 1.1 compatible players to be very useful. Do be aware, though, that when HDMI 1.3 is fully implemented, you may find yourself coming up against "restricted playback" limitations.

For all useful purposes you'll do very well with 1.1 versions, though.

As to B&O and price - I'm not reluctant to pay a premium (story of my life.) But then I'd like to experience a premium, and not feel I have to come up with apologies on behalf of the manufacturer to explain why I'm sticking with the brand, no matter what.
A bit like coming to a Michelin restaurant, you do expect it to have earned its rating, every single night -- and I'm not really interested in sitting there pretending that the frozen and recently thawed fish I've been served is fresh out of the sea.

And I'd be very keen on hearing of your experiences with integrating B&O and non-B&O, and think you should ignore some of the reactions here.

Re: How to move from all B&O to some B&O

BarryAndrew — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 06:38:00 GMT

joeyboygolf

Don't understand your comments at all! However I will not try and convince you of my argument any more.

Two small points though. One is repetition -- ALL my a-v equipment is B&O not just some of it and if I choose to go in a different direction it doesn't mean that I don't enjoy B&O.

Second is that you have got to be looking through the wrong coloured glasses if you think that Arcam produces equipment of the sort that you describe. I am all in favour of speaking in favour of B&O's positives and negatives but you are fooling yourself if you believe that it is THAT good.

I will take your message as an invitation to leave the forum and will do so from now on.

Re: How to move from all B&O to some B&O

joeyboygolf — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 05:44:16 GMT

BarryAndrew:
joeyboygolf:

My personal thoughts on this matter are,thus.
If you want to go, go now. Don't keep bleating about it. I don't see the point!

I am surprised at this statement.

I don't know why!

As Jandyt says, this is a B&O enthusiasts site and you have made it clear that you will be ditching all your B&O in the fullness of time.

If you want a separates system with all the latest bells and whistles (skip fodder in 6 months?) and a coffee table littered with remote controls (or one japcrap plastic universal thingy with hundreds of buttons) then you are in the wrong place.

B&O design integrated systems which are designed to work together for the benefit of the majority. They will readily admit to never being cutting edge in all disciplines. I am happy with this philosophy.

If you wish to go on another voyage then don't expect me to be particularly interested.

This also applies to the endless discussions re the price of B&O equipment, both audio and video. It has always been expensive and no more so now than when I first purchased a Beomaster 1900 in 1979 or a Beocenter 9000 in 1986.

Re: How to move from all B&O to some B&O

BarryAndrew — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 04:32:04 GMT

Soundproof,

Thanks for your comments. I will print you message out so that I can reflect on what you have said more seriously. I think what drew me to the arcam is twofold

(a) I have owned it in the past (along with quad) and like it.

(b) The unit had 5.1 connectivity at pre-amp output stage allowing me to maintain connection with my speakers through RCA. As I have 8000 and 4000 they will be open to line input or RCA to powerlink conversion. It was a very flexible unit which allowed passive speakers and still retain scart for sd purposes.

I asked because I don't know the unit and wanted to know the downsides. Your message suggests that remote controls is what it comes down to.

Thanks again. I may PM you later.

Re: How to move from all B&O to some B&O

BarryAndrew — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 04:23:45 GMT

joeyboygolf:
My personal thoughts on this matter are,thus.
If you want to go, go now. Don't keep bleating about it. I don't see the point!

I am surprised at this statement.

I wasn't bleating --am not bleating but was simply responding to a point. The beginning of this thread was all about connectivity between B&O and non-B&O something which is handled here all the time. How many times have people suggested the PV1 as a sub-woofer? How many times have there been discussions in the connectivity of Non-B&O plasmas etc etc etc . This attitude is not taken to those correspondents.

My inquiry was the same in reverse. ALL of my av equipment is B&O -- I have no intention of selling it all but will ditch it when it breaks down out of warranty. In the meantime I am considering uprating from what is a very agricultural DVD1 to something a bit more sophisticated with the non B&O future in mind.

I was simply asking if anyone who understood the connectivity issues whether the ARCAM Solo movies 5.1 was a good step in that direction? Is the forum no longer taking questions on connectivity between B&O and non B&O then?

Re: How to move from all B&O to some B&O

soundproof — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 04:20:14 GMT

I think it's perfectly legitimate to ask questions about how one should integrate B&O and non-B&O equipment in a forum such as this one -- given the large number of members, we can rest assured that someone will have come across the particular problem one is facing.

In my instance, it's a response to the complete disregard shown by B&O to the possibilities in Mac OSX - I was simply forced to go non-B&O because of the omission of a few minor things in B&O's equipment, I don't like using converters and want as direct a link as possible for my audio bitstreams. And B&O should embrace Mac software options, instead of ignoring them.

As to Barry's query. I've tested a number of universal players, and you have a number of good options you can consider:

1. The Arcam you mention.

2. Linn's Movie or Universal (UniDisk) players. The latter I found to work excellently with my various BL speakers and it does a very respectable upscaling of DVDs. (As does the Arcam.)

3. Rotel's various multiformat disc players.

You should be aware that all of these have announced they will launch HDMI 1.3 compatible versions of their players, and that all are delayed with their launches. Does HDMI 1.3 matter? Well, it does do wonders with the sound, and to me that remains a chief reason to stick with B&O speakers - which means you want to feed them with the best possible signal.

Why don't I have any of the above players, if I have tested them?

I found that a Mac Mini does everything they do - and as far as DVD upscaling is concerned, better.
The Mini's DVI out connects to my screen with a DVI-to-HMDI converter cable. (No loss of quality - DVI is the HDMI video protocol.)
The Mini's Toslink optical connects to an inexpensive stand-alone processor and converts all audio formats. (Not SACD, but I got brilliant 24bit/96kHz multichannel sound out of the Joseph Losey version of Don Giovanni, re-released with a remastered soundtrack!)

In addition, the Mini lets me access my expanding digital storage music library at a price that makes a joke out of Linn's Klassik box (or whatever they call it). They want about ten times as much to do what a Mini and a stand alone server does just as well.

What you then require is a way of connecting your speakers to the processor. I'm of the high-end hifi is full of BS school, and believe that today's well built inexpensive processors do just as good a job as a super-expensive one from McIntosh, Primare or others.

I'm using RCA-to-RCA in to the BL5s, and RCA-to-PL converters to the rear BL3s. (For two-channel music I use the direct digital signal to the BL5s and let their internal processors handle the conversion to analog from digital.)
The processor allows me to drop the center channel - any acoustic lens enabled front speaker pair lets you do that without any loss of essential centre channel information (others may not agree, I'm superhappy with this solution.)

Downside - you'll need more than one remote controller, or else have to get a universal remote.

Things are changing "fast" in high-end av/audio, and you may find that the equipment you get can't handle a particular format.
The Mini's disc player is too noisy to be used for direct playback. So either put the music in iTunes or else copy a DVD to the harddisk before playback. (You can use it, but in sections where the soundtrack is low you'll notice the spinning disc.)

Why didn't I get a BeoCenter 2? It's beautiful, and does most of the things I need a unit to do, but I'd still need the Mini, and with that I get a full-fledged media center, a/v playback unit that I can hide away. And the BC2 doesn't have Digital IN, which is a dealbreaker for me.

Send me a PM, Barry, if you need any more detailed info.

Re: How to move from all B&O to some B&O

Flappo The Grate — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 03:13:58 GMT

avforums should be helpful , they have loads of boffins over there that could help you

http://www.avforums.com/forums/index.php

i agree aboot the problems with connecting bno to the real world , we used to have the DIN connection to RCA phono hassle , not sure if that's still applicable ?

plus i know what you mean aboot broken promises - i was told my avant would have a built in hard disk recorder in a years time - of course that never materialised !

Re: How to move from all B&O to some B&O

jooka — Sun, 24 Feb 2008 02:56:01 GMT

Jandyt:
joeyboygolf:
My personal thoughts on this matter are,thus.
If you want to go, go now. Don't keep bleating about it. I don't see the point!
I'm with you on this, Graham.
It does seem a little odd Barry, that you are asking a site full of B&O fans how to get rid of B&O!
Andy T.

i couldn't agree more. sell everything now. we buy.

Re: How to move from all B&O to some B&O

Peter — Sat, 23 Feb 2008 17:45:54 GMT

I don't have a problem with this - but clearly I cannot advise on other makes the way I can on B&O and the same will go for many members. Therefore asking about other makes will be interesting but don't expect many educated answers. Maybe report back once it is working.

Re: How to move from all B&O to some B&O

jk1002 — Sat, 23 Feb 2008 17:43:06 GMT

I am with jandyt on this one. Many here choose other devices to go along with their B&O. Plasma Blueray DVD. Worth to discuss.

Re: How to move from all B&O to some B&O

moxxey — Sat, 23 Feb 2008 17:26:32 GMT

Jandyt:
I'm with you on this, Graham.
It does seem a little odd Barry, that you are asking a site full of B&O fans how to get rid of B&O!

Why? There should be a line between obsession and practicality. Sadly that's where forums falls down - people see obsession over practicality. In a business world you need to see and embrace other technology not try and find one brand and fit your requirements around it. That's where it all goes wrong..

Re: How to move from all B&O to some B&O

Jandyt — Sat, 23 Feb 2008 16:55:52 GMT

joeyboygolf:

My personal thoughts on this matter are,thus.
If you want to go, go now. Don't keep bleating about it. I don't see the point!

I'm with you on this, Graham.
It does seem a little odd Barry, that you are asking a site full of B&O fans how to get rid of B&O!

Andy T.