General Forum

Re: BV7-40 markIII - Not satisfied with the picture when looking at bluray movies

355f — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 09:37:24 GMT

rvanham:

Please do not expect wonders with HDMI 1.3 In fact for picture and sound quality there is NO difference between HDMI 1.2 and HDMI 1.3 while using DVD, HD-DVD or blue ray. There is a very good article on this subject.
http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Joshua_Zyber/High-Def_FAQ/High-Def_FAQ:_Is_HDMI_1.3_Really_Necessary/853

Obviously, one can make a case for- or against anything. HDMI is just a form of transmission.

The comment- most decoding is now taking place in the players- is just not true now- all the latest offerings due out soon from the major brands will not have in built decoding. This is to save money and reduce the price of BR so establishing a larger market.

There is no mention about profile 1.1 which if the BR brigade have their way will render previous machines useless with new BR titles.

In vision, lip sync and deep colour probably are not worth the wait but in audio its different.

The new audio codecs MA need 1.3 or above and both connected items need to be 1.3 compliant. This is now being engineered into new products- so without it the later codecs are not available- This is quite significant in a high quality AV set up

So whilst the article states that hdmi will be reverse compatable with the new hdmi varients- you wont get the new codecs

Re: BV7-40 markIII - Not satisfied with the picture when looking at bluray movies

rvanham — Tue, 22 Jan 2008 09:12:35 GMT

Please do not expect wonders with HDMI 1.3 In fact for picture and sound quality there is NO difference between HDMI 1.2 and HDMI 1.3 while using DVD, HD-DVD or blue ray. There is a very good article on this subject.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Joshua_Zyber/High-Def_FAQ/High-Def_FAQ:_Is_HDMI_1.3_Really_Necessary/853

Re: BV7-40 markIII - Not satisfied with the picture when looking at bluray movies

Beolab — Mon, 21 Jan 2008 01:35:29 GMT

wilsonsav98:

"Its not the TV (BV7) ... It´s the new Blu-ray technology ho hasn't developed to its full capacity yet!
The BV7 inbuilt BS3 is a very powerful video engine and read on a Swedish forum that the Beosystem3 only use about 50% of its totally power with DVD playback and 80-90% with HD material.. "
That surely cannot bbe true if Mr andersons Blu ray on his PS3 plays through his BV9 and just now I am looking at a Blutech playing through a compose and it is a clear sharp picture. I must admit they are more succeptible to change and you have to set them up correctly, however with Warner now going across to Blu Ray it sounds like the death knell for HD DVD.

You misunderstand me..

What i say is that the Beosystem 3 processor are not using more than 80-90% of total 100% withe Blu-ray or HD-DVD (30Mbps) playback.

So It´s a very powerful engine and can handle Blu-ray material without problems..

( The Beosystem 3 Video processor are made by PixelWorks ) http://www.pixelworks.com/

Regards

Re: BV7-40 markIII - Not satisfied with the picture when looking at bluray movies

wilsonsav98 — Sat, 19 Jan 2008 05:18:55 GMT

"Its not the TV (BV7) ... It´s the new Blu-ray technology ho hasn't developed to its full capacity yet!

The BV7 inbuilt BS3 is a very powerful video engine and read on a Swedish forum that the Beosystem3 only use about 50% of its totally power with DVD playback and 80-90% with HD material.. "

That surely cannot bbe true if Mr andersons Blu ray on his PS3 plays through his BV9 and just now I am looking at a Blutech playing through a compose and it is a clear sharp picture. I must admit they are more succeptible to change and you have to set them up correctly, however with Warner now going across to Blu Ray it sounds like the death knell for HD DVD.

Re: BV7-40 markIII - Not satisfied with the picture when looking at bluray movies

moxxey — Fri, 18 Jan 2008 16:30:56 GMT

355f:
The issue is further compounded with he fact that the bv7 handles HD far better than SD dvd so there will of course be 'issues' when watching the same disc material HDvSD

Yes, more obvious pixelisation on DVDs that are pixelated (300 is a good example).

On a sidenote, nothing compares to a HD movie on Sky HD or BBC HD. Absolutely no pixelisation, stunning clarity, no bad camera panning or anything.

Re: BV7-40 markIII - Not satisfied with the picture when looking at bluray movies

355f — Fri, 18 Jan 2008 16:06:10 GMT

moxxey:
355f:

Im delighted all your blue rays are better than ds dvds but please look at the following
355F, I don't really need someone else to offer me my opinion. ie. what that forum states is irrevelant.
What I would say is that some Blu-rays are not well encoded (see my earlier post) and are no better than an upscaled SD DVD. However, the same upscaled DVD has the same issues as the Blu-ray. Indeed, upscaled SD DVDs look more like a copy than the original disc.
I have SD DVDs and Blu-rays of 300, Last Samurai, Casino Royale, The Departed and many others. Every Blu-ray has better image quality than the SD DVD, but that doesn't mean that I'm impressed with the Blu-ray version of the DVD - like I say above, Ocean's Thirteen is fairly poor in Blu-ray (but the same issues, camera panning, pixelisation etc, apply to the SD DVD, but are just less obvious).

Sometimes a survey that has been complied by a substantial group can be accurate. In the case of the discs specially mentioned above one finds that these do indeed have high ratings.

The issue is further compounded with he fact that the bv7 handles HD far better than SD dvd so there will of course be 'issues' when watching the same disc material HDvSD

Re: BV7-40 markIII - Not satisfied with the picture when looking at bluray movies

moxxey — Fri, 18 Jan 2008 15:46:38 GMT

355f:
Im delighted all your blue rays are better than ds dvds but please look at the following

355F, I don't really need someone else to offer me my opinion. ie. what that forum states is irrevelant.

What I would say is that some Blu-rays are not well encoded (see my earlier post) and are no better than an upscaled SD DVD. However, the same upscaled DVD has the same issues as the Blu-ray. Indeed, upscaled SD DVDs look more like a copy than the original disc.

I have SD DVDs and Blu-rays of 300, Last Samurai, Casino Royale, The Departed and many others. Every Blu-ray has better image quality than the SD DVD, but that doesn't mean that I'm impressed with the Blu-ray version of the DVD - like I say above, Ocean's Thirteen is fairly poor in Blu-ray (but the same issues, camera panning, pixelisation etc, apply to the SD DVD, but are just less obvious).

Re: BV7-40 markIII - Not satisfied with the picture when looking at bluray movies

355f — Fri, 18 Jan 2008 15:00:45 GMT

joeyboygolf:
Phew!!! Drinks all round in Struer then!

I dont think they can afford those anymore!

Re: BV7-40 markIII - Not satisfied with the picture when looking at bluray movies

joeyboygolf — Fri, 18 Jan 2008 14:57:20 GMT

Phew!!! Drinks all round in Struer then!

Re: BV7-40 markIII - Not satisfied with the picture when looking at bluray movies

355f — Fri, 18 Jan 2008 14:48:12 GMT

moxxey:
355f:

Totest this theoryI have the bourne ultimatum BR on pioneer 8 series with PS3 and a standard dvd played on BV4 with BS3- the standard dvd is far better in every way. Checkout AV forums for a list of BR discs that are actually worth having for picture quality alone- its not many!
How did you do that test? Bourne Ultimatum - or any Bourne movie - isn't available on BR.
ALL my Blu-rays are better than their SD equivalent (and also share the same issues, ie problematic camera panning on Ocean's 13). 355F, you're getting carried away again :)

Sorry full aplogies! Actually my associate has the Pioneer panel now and the dvd was via the toshiba ep30 HDDVD.

Im delighted all your blue rays are better than ds dvds but please look at the following

http://avplay.avforums.com/index.php

click on GO and all the HDdvd and blue rays come up. Then look at the indicators for sound and vision. 10 is good, 6 or less makes it no better than dvd-

Re: BV7-40 markIII - Not satisfied with the picture when looking at bluray movies

355f — Fri, 18 Jan 2008 14:43:24 GMT

moxxey:

355f:
For my part, the biggest imprvements we are going to see with BR will be in sound and not picture formats. Alas, without HDMI 1.3 these new codecs will not be available to existing BS3 holders. This is another fault with the way BnO operates which i meantioned before!
I'm already astonished my 2008-model BV7-40 MKIII doesn't support HDMI 1.3. I'd be even more astonished if this couldn't be supported in the BS3 as I was told it was a software update (but believed myself that HDMI 1.3 was a hardware upgrade).
My reply about Blu-ray on the BV7-40 MKIII was 'approved' (see above) after it had been moderated all day.

Its a hardware, not a software issue. The really worrying thing is that with the new BR players comming out (ie Panasonic BD30) they are all without internal decoding of the new sound formats in order to save money.

A relatively cheap onkyo or Denon AV receiver supports the new codecs vias HDMI 1.3 but the BS3 does not.

BnO should clarify the position as to how much its going to cost existing owners of these products to update ( if indeed thats possible)

Whilst I dont believe one can futureproof products - BnO should take a leaf out of Meridians products- An item bought many years ago can be upgraded by software and firmware updates via the web to meet the standards of an item just off the factory line today.

Re: BV7-40 markIII - Not satisfied with the picture when looking at bluray movies

moxxey — Fri, 18 Jan 2008 14:37:24 GMT

355f:
Totest this theoryI have the bourne ultimatum BR on pioneer 8 series with PS3 and a standard dvd played on BV4 with BS3- the standard dvd is far better in every way. Checkout AV forums for a list of BR discs that are actually worth having for picture quality alone- its not many!

How did you do that test? Bourne Ultimatum - or any Bourne movie - isn't available on BR.

ALL my Blu-rays are better than their SD equivalent (and also share the same issues, ie problematic camera panning on Ocean's 13). 355F, you're getting carried away again :)

Re: BV7-40 markIII - Not satisfied with the picture when looking at bluray movies

moxxey — Fri, 18 Jan 2008 14:31:30 GMT

355f:
For my part, the biggest imprvements we are going to see with BR will be in sound and not picture formats. Alas, without HDMI 1.3 these new codecs will not be available to existing BS3 holders. This is another fault with the way BnO operates which i meantioned before!

I'm already astonished my 2008-model BV7-40 MKIII doesn't support HDMI 1.3. I'd be even more astonished if this couldn't be supported in the BS3 as I was told it was a software update (but believed myself that HDMI 1.3 was a hardware upgrade).

My reply about Blu-ray on the BV7-40 MKIII was 'approved' (see above) after it had been moderated all day.

Re: BV7-40 markIII - Not satisfied with the picture when looking at bluray movies

Beolab — Fri, 18 Jan 2008 11:58:40 GMT

355f:
Beolab:
355f:
Beolab:
martin01:

Hi, I have a brand new BV7-40 Mark III (Full-HD). I have bought a Panasonic BMP-BD10A blu-ray player. When I look at blu-ray movies at 1080p (full-HD picture) the camera-movements i sometimes a bit jerky. I have tried other blu-ray players with the same result. When I look at DVD movies, the movements i soft and very good. Mayby the pictureprocessor in the BV7 is not sufficient. Has anybody experienced this problem when looking at bluray movies?
Regards
Martin
Have you set the Panasonic player to 1080p for the default output signal or?
Try to set the Panasonic to 1080i instead and see if you got any improvements. Because now the on-board much more powerful "Beosystem3" possessor in the BV7 will deinterlace the signal to a smooth progressive signal instead of the poorly panasonic processor.. Try this and turn of the Film Mode in the service menu on the BV7..
If this doesn't help, try the Sony BD S500 Blue-ray player.. Its a newer BD player with lesser artefacts...
(The newer Blu-ray players got the 24p/second option witch sync picture by picture to the original 32mm cinema format 24p/s = No motion judder in pans at all.. But unfortunately BV7 doesn't support 24p yet.. Maybe a newer SW upgrade later this year will give the opportunity for the 24p standard...)

Regards
well 24fps seem to be causing more problems than it solves for many users at the moment. The porcessor in the BD10 is ectually extremely good you will gain nothing by moving to sony BDs500 or the 300 ( which is largely the same internaly.
Because the PS3 is set up mainly as a gaming machine, its capabilities are very high and there are less compliance issues with it.
hence my suggestion you try a PS3 first. It is unlikely that a softwrea upgrade will make the BS3 24FPS just as its unikely it will support HDMA audio as it is not HDMI 1.3 compliant

But 24p should only be software based, or don't you think Beoystem3 can be upgraded with this option in a later SW upgrade ?
Regards
If BnO want t use the very latest Panasonic panels then it would make sense that 24fps was utilised. However, having looked at the BS3 internally it would seem that present models cant be made 1.3 compliant without major changes and its very dissapoiting given the huge cost that it was not reverse engineered to do this.
For my part, the biggest imprvements we are going to see with BR will be in sound and not picture formats. Alas, without HDMI 1.3 these new codecs will not be available to existing BS3 holders. This is another fault with the way BnO operates which i meantioned before!

I was afraid to here that answer =(

As usually! Bang&Olufsen= Ultrarapid & Slow, with no future proof inbuilt ....

Re: BV7-40 markIII - Not satisfied with the picture when looking at bluray movies

355f — Fri, 18 Jan 2008 11:37:00 GMT

Beolab:
355f:
Beolab:
martin01:

Hi, I have a brand new BV7-40 Mark III (Full-HD). I have bought a Panasonic BMP-BD10A blu-ray player. When I look at blu-ray movies at 1080p (full-HD picture) the camera-movements i sometimes a bit jerky. I have tried other blu-ray players with the same result. When I look at DVD movies, the movements i soft and very good. Mayby the pictureprocessor in the BV7 is not sufficient. Has anybody experienced this problem when looking at bluray movies?
Regards
Martin
Have you set the Panasonic player to 1080p for the default output signal or?
Try to set the Panasonic to 1080i instead and see if you got any improvements. Because now the on-board much more powerful "Beosystem3" possessor in the BV7 will deinterlace the signal to a smooth progressive signal instead of the poorly panasonic processor.. Try this and turn of the Film Mode in the service menu on the BV7..
If this doesn't help, try the Sony BD S500 Blue-ray player.. Its a newer BD player with lesser artefacts...
(The newer Blu-ray players got the 24p/second option witch sync picture by picture to the original 32mm cinema format 24p/s = No motion judder in pans at all.. But unfortunately BV7 doesn't support 24p yet.. Maybe a newer SW upgrade later this year will give the opportunity for the 24p standard...)

Regards
well 24fps seem to be causing more problems than it solves for many users at the moment. The porcessor in the BD10 is ectually extremely good you will gain nothing by moving to sony BDs500 or the 300 ( which is largely the same internaly.
Because the PS3 is set up mainly as a gaming machine, its capabilities are very high and there are less compliance issues with it.
hence my suggestion you try a PS3 first. It is unlikely that a softwrea upgrade will make the BS3 24FPS just as its unikely it will support HDMA audio as it is not HDMI 1.3 compliant

But 24p should only be software based, or don't you think Beoystem3 can be upgraded with this option in a later SW upgrade ?
Regards

If BnO want t use the very latest Panasonic panels then it would make sense that 24fps was utilised. However, having looked at the BS3 internally it would seem that present models cant be made 1.3 compliant without major changes and its very dissapoiting given the huge cost that it was not reverse engineered to do this.

For my part, the biggest imprvements we are going to see with BR will be in sound and not picture formats. Alas, without HDMI 1.3 these new codecs will not be available to existing BS3 holders. This is another fault with the way BnO operates which i meantioned before!