General Forum

Re: Ooops! Guess who really designs for Apple?

Kellogg — Fri, 18 Jan 2008 05:31:07 GMT

Not really a big fan of Apple and probably never will be, but still I would like to share a picture of Apples new car; the iCar. This was not shown by Steve Jobs the other day, so I guess the project is still secret

P.S. this is the first time I try to attach a picture, so I hope it works...

Re: Ooops! Guess who really designs for Apple?

AT — Fri, 18 Jan 2008 05:18:33 GMT

"I actually see the calculators as closer than the radio/iPod!"

I think, the radio just looks like the "small brother" of the iPod - they are all the same. Replace the speaker cover with a same size screen, and You can get the iPod. I think, the iPod is a simple copy of this radio...

About the rest, I think, it can be say, that all the other designs were inspired by somebody else -
but there are at least as many differences, as many shared ideas. So I think, there are several
other designs, which has at least as many comparisation possibility, so I think, in the other cases
the maximum we can say is some kind of an inspiration, but nothing else.

IMHO, of course :)

Re: Ooops! Guess who really designs for Apple?

Klas — Thu, 17 Jan 2008 18:51:33 GMT

there are no new ideas......... There are only new ways of making them felt

-- Audre Lorde

Re: Ooops! Guess who really designs for Apple?

linder — Thu, 17 Jan 2008 10:27:25 GMT

soundproof:
linder:
I considered the iPhone calculator as a homage to Dieter Rams. Mr Rams did not influence the design of the iPhone.
He-he. I don't think anyone has said Mr Rams designed the iPhone, the discussion there relates to the UI of the calculator pad.
At any rate, what we're also looking at is the fact that certain functions/uses lend themselves to specific forms. But there's no reason to be up in arms about Ive having had a look at Rams' designs. As you say - homage.

You are correct. It is the UI. I let my dislike of Gizmodo get the best of me. However now Gizmodo is letting the whole world think that Jonathan Ive is not an original designer and all the Apple design are copies of something else.

Re: Ooops! Guess who really designs for Apple?

linder — Thu, 17 Jan 2008 10:22:16 GMT

Soundproof,

You can type faster than me. Yes the radio at first glance looks like a design influence. However early transistor radios were all kind of the same design except Dieter Rams did it in white with more simplicity. Yellow was a big color then.

Re: Ooops! Guess who really designs for Apple?

soundproof — Thu, 17 Jan 2008 10:17:30 GMT

linder:
I considered the iPhone calculator as a homage to Dieter Rams. Mr Rams did not influence the design of the iPhone.

He-he. I don't think anyone has said Mr Rams designed the iPhone, the discussion there relates to the UI of the calculator pad.

At any rate, what we're also looking at is the fact that certain functions/uses lend themselves to specific forms. But there's no reason to be up in arms about Ive having had a look at Rams' designs. As you say - homage.

Re: Ooops! Guess who really designs for Apple?

linder — Thu, 17 Jan 2008 10:14:20 GMT

I am definitely not convinced by this article. When I purchased the iPhone, I recognized the calculator was the same as the Dieter Rams calculator design. I have 2 of those calculators which were made by Braun. Braun is part of the Gillette company who I can't imagine would let Apple use that design without permission. I considered the iPhone calculator as a homage to Dieter Rams. Mr Rams did not influence the design of the iPhone.

Some of the other ideas are really a stretch. Remember, there were several previous iMac designs. iMac design was more evolutionary. Nothing new about the form factor of the Mac Pro tower. That shape has been used by many companies and with perforated metal. The design of the Mac Pro is great but its the engineering inside that really matters.

About the first iPod, Jonathan Ive has always said, the design was mostly a matter of the technical requirements which was a small box with a control and a screen. The design could have been the other way around with the screen on the bottom and the control on the top. I thought B&O invented the click wheel.

Dieter Rams is still living. There is plenty of information about him on the web and in print. I am delighted that Gizmodo has probably visited the Museum of Modern Art in New York for this story about design. The museum has a large display of Braun and B&O products in their permanent industrial design collection that has been there for over 25 years.

Now that Gizmodo has been to a museum, one wonders what they will find in future visits to other museums it they go. BTW. Gizmodo is usually unkind when talking about Bang & Olufsen.

My rant is over.

Re: Ooops! Guess who really designs for Apple?

soundproof — Thu, 17 Jan 2008 10:12:31 GMT

AT:
soundproof:
Look at the buttons on the keypad of the calculator -- the iPhone simulates buttons, and it's obvious that the inspiration is the buttons from the Braun calculator. Same shape, colour scheme, and annotation, with some slight adjustments to accommodate for today's keypads. (Click the picture to enlarge it.)

I think, You wish to see something, that is not exist ;)

If You check it again, than I think, You can really see, that not even the layout, not even the keys, not even the letters, not even the numbers, not even the caps, not even the layout, and not even the colors are the same. I think, the only same, and genuine element is the yellow "=", but it seems to nothing more, but a coincidence for me. I think, if You check any other company's products from that time, You can get at least as much "they are the same" feeling as You can get here.

And, I really do not understand why to force a comparisation like this, because the iPod is really a 100% match.

Which goes to show how differently people perceive. I actually see the calculators as closer than the radio/iPod!

BTW - it appears the User Interface similarity from the Braun is one that Apple has acknowledged.

Another question. B&O claims they invented the iPod wheel, but that radio is from the early 60s!

Re: Ooops! Guess who really designs for Apple?

AT — Thu, 17 Jan 2008 10:00:36 GMT

soundproof:
Look at the buttons on the keypad of the calculator -- the iPhone simulates buttons, and it's obvious that the inspiration is the buttons from the Braun calculator. Same shape, colour scheme, and annotation, with some slight adjustments to accommodate for today's keypads. (Click the picture to enlarge it.)

I think, You wish to see something, that is not exist ;)

If You check it again, than I think, You can really see, that not even the layout, not even the keys, not even the letters, not even the numbers, not even the caps, not even the layout, and not even the colors are the same. I think, the only same, and genuine element is the yellow "=", but it seems to nothing more, but a coincidence for me. I think, if You check any other company's products from that time, You can get at least as much "they are the same" feeling as You can get here.

And, I really do not understand why to force a comparisation like this, because the iPod is really a 100% match.

Re: Ooops! Guess who really designs for Apple?

Medogsfat — Thu, 17 Jan 2008 09:32:21 GMT

I'm not totally convinced by this article.

Sure some of the designs could be construed is being "inspired by" or even "copied" whether coincidental or purposely. Most of the comparisons look a little tenuous in the least though IMO.

Either way they're all lovely designs

Chris.

Re: Ooops! Guess who really designs for Apple?

Tom — Thu, 17 Jan 2008 09:19:36 GMT

I find this article really interesting.

I would not say the apple products are copies, but one can't deny that they are at least inspired by the old Braun designs.

Re: Ooops! Guess who really designs for Apple?

soundproof — Thu, 17 Jan 2008 09:18:21 GMT

AT:
I think, the iPod is really the same design, but I beg Your pardon - the rest is absolutely not, IMHO.

Just for example, I can't even find any "it's the same" feeling about the calculators, for example, because they are totally different - IMHO again ;)

Look at the buttons on the keypad of the calculator -- the iPhone simulates buttons, and it's obvious that the inspiration is the buttons from the Braun calculator. Same shape, colour scheme, and annotation, with some slight adjustments to accommodate for today's keypads. (Click the picture to enlarge it.)

Nothing wrong in this, except that I haven't really heard Ram's name mentioned in connection with Ive's designs before.

Re: Ooops! Guess who really designs for Apple?

AT — Thu, 17 Jan 2008 08:48:23 GMT

I think, the iPod is really the same design, but I beg Your pardon - the rest is absolutely not, IMHO.

Just for example, I can't even find any "it's the same" feeling about the calculators, for example, because they are totally different - IMHO again ;)

Re: Ooops! Guess who really designs for Apple?

beocool — Thu, 17 Jan 2008 05:35:31 GMT

What a great article!

Having received some of my universal training at the Technical University in Delft I was already familiar with some of Dieter Rams' work. Even though I was trained as an architect and Dieter Rams is actually a hero of the Faculty of Industrial Design I always admired his work for Braun. I never realised how similar the designs of Apple and Braun really are. So I say: Thanks for sharing Soundproof!

Re: Ooops! Guess who really designs for Apple?

mobeyone — Thu, 17 Jan 2008 05:28:17 GMT

interesting!

In fairness, every designer has "borrowed" ideas in one way but with these deisgns, there are clear parallels with the two!