General Forum

Re: A Tale of Two Cameras

soundproof — Wed, 19 Dec 2007 03:41:49 GMT

The Cnet review is over a year old. There are changes to both the firmware and software since then, in both cameras. The person I bought it from owns the pro camera store where I shop for equipment, and he was quite dismissive of Leica's claim that their version was better.

But my point here is what this does to the brand. Though we should all be aware that most consumer electronics products are mash-ups with contributions from many manufacturers. It's no surprise here that I like Apple's products, and that I'm very fond of my latest acquisition, the iPod Touch. Here's a list of the various manufacturers that have contributed parts to the Touch:

Samsung, Toshiba, Hynix Semiconductor, Micron Technology, STMicroelectronics, Broadcom, Texas Instruments, Epson, Sharp, Balda, Wintex, Optrex og Marv.

As mentioned above: are we being taken for a ride on the Prestige train? In the case of the Touch, I would claim that no one else has been able to combine those parts in as effective a package. In the case of the Leica/Pana ... they're identical, the logo isn't (though Pana has a Leica L on its lower right front and the word Leica on the lens mounting.)

Re: A Tale of Two Cameras

Beolab — Wed, 19 Dec 2007 00:04:56 GMT

beoberlin:
Leica says, also technically the same they´re having a different (better?) picture processing algorythm. Though I don´t know if this is true, i still would always buy the Leica and not the Pana. Call me a snob, but i think the far better, sleeker, cooler design is worth every cent. The Leica will still stand out when the Pana is long gone down the drain of yesterdays gadgets. BTW: AFAIK "D" stands for "digital" and "LUX" for "light", so there is nothing "deluxe" about the name. beoberlin

I have read a few tests here in the Swedish photo magazines, and the cameras are almost the same..

The Leica D-Lux 3 got a different color algorythm = The colors are a bit richer than the Panasonic.. Panasonic is more correct and have a slight blue touch in the pics vs the Leica.

Read the hole test here: (Leica is the winner in PQ)

http://reviews.cnet.com/digital-cameras/leica-d-lux-3/4505-6501_7-32106926.html?tag=prod.txt.1

Regards

Re: A Tale of Two Cameras

nlb — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 17:56:44 GMT

I too was very tempted by the lovely LEICA C-LUX 2 but ended up purchasing the pany FX33, same camera ... slightly different price! nlb.

Re: A Tale of Two Cameras

joeyboygolf — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 17:38:28 GMT

The difference is that Leica chose a rather more upmarket electronics company to get into bed with. In my view, Samsung have always had a rather downmarket Dixons/Curry's image which B&O are finding it difficult to cover up.

Re: A Tale of Two Cameras

mobeyone — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 17:18:43 GMT

Another similarity between Leica and B&O is that the two cannot fund a market which has technology moving forward all the time. With Panasonic and Samsung, both have a relationship which can be exploited and fill a market that otherwise either brand may not have been able to move into.

My understanding of the Dlux2/3 is that it does have some slight improvement over its panny sibling and this something that has been covered many a time over on the Leica forum.

Leica everytime for me but I cannot help but think that we are being taken for a ride for a little presitge.

Re: A Tale of Two Cameras

soundproof — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 16:59:57 GMT

beoberlin:
Leica says, also technically the same they´re having a different (better?) picture processing algorythm. Though I don´t know if this is true, i still would always buy the Leica and not the Pana. Call me a snob, but i think the far better, sleeker, cooler design is worth every cent. The Leica will still stand out when the Pana is long gone down the drain of yesterdays gadgets. BTW: AFAIK "D" stands for "digital" and "LUX" for "light", so there is nothing "deluxe" about the name. beoberlin

Oh, I'm sure there's a better rationale for D-lux than deluxe, but it's just cheesy. Like Lexus ... too obvious.

Yes - as a previously keen Leica customer you'd think I would reach for the Leica this time, as well. But I know the guy in the photo shop who sold it to me, and knew he'd put the cards on the table when I asked him. There's really no difference, except for the finger rest on the Pana, which makes perfect sense ergonomically.

If it had been a question of the VW Touareg versus the Porsche Cayenne, I would have gone for the Leica. But this was an anthracite grey against graphite Cayenne, with a choice of round or square exhaust pipes.
And my point is what this does to the Leica brand. With analog film there was the exquisite craftsmanship, brilliant lenses and generally superior simplicity. I loved my M6, and missed it when some fool stole it. And I have the house full of cameras - it's not that. I just didn't see why I should buy the Leica, since it was clear that this was a Panasonic product, and that Leica had been allowed to come along for the digital ride.

Re: A Tale of Two Cameras

beoberlin — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 16:51:25 GMT

Leica says, also technically the same they´re having a different (better?) picture processing algorythm. Though I don´t know if this is true, i still would always buy the Leica and not the Pana. Call me a snob, but i think the far better, sleeker, cooler design is worth every cent. The Leica will still stand out when the Pana is long gone down the drain of yesterdays gadgets. BTW: AFAIK "D" stands for "digital" and "LUX" for "light", so there is nothing "deluxe" about the name. beoberlin

Re: A Tale of Two Cameras

Jandyt — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 15:09:11 GMT

I must have posted six million photo's on the forums. all taken with my trusty........Lada

Andy T.

Re: A Tale of Two Cameras

Peter — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 14:56:18 GMT

Interesting thread. And of course the Panasonic does have Leica written on it as well! I must confess, I would have bought the Panasonic too. But if I were buying a rangefinder film camera, it would be a Leica!

Re: A Tale of Two Cameras

joeyboygolf — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 14:35:47 GMT

I've just bought a Pansonic Lumix TZ3 and it's fantastic. So easy to use even for a numpty like me.

Re: A Tale of Two Cameras

benoit — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 13:30:34 GMT

I have the Panasonic and love it. Takes very good pictures ;) . But I think that the difference with the Pana is that the Leica comes with Photoshop Elements for PC and Mac! That make the price difference.

Re: A Tale of Two Cameras

soundproof — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 13:09:27 GMT

Mr10Percent:
I think you have to look at it in terms of value and what that value means to you.
Some people think buying B&O is a rip-off. It is afterall only a Samsung or Philips under the expensive skin.
Leica with Lumix / Panasonic (excellent cameras btw - I have one and very simple)
Rolex, Breitling, Omega versus a cheapo LCD quartz watch (more accurate)
A Lada versus an Aston or Bentley - all get you from A to B
A TopMan suit versus a Zenga - (its just cloth!)
Getting Tescos valuepac food and cooking at home versus a night out at Raymond Blancs where the produce is exquisitly selected from
small organic producers of in-season food (at the end of the day it is sustianance!)
There are lots of items that can be compared this way. Usually high value items versus a budget item. Some of us are fortunate as to be able to make a choice as to what we want. some of us are not and have Hobsons choice.
At the end of the day it does not really matter as long as you are happy with your choice.
10%

A Lada (RIP) versus an Aston wouldn't be much of a choice, I think!

And I was merrily buying B&O televisions when I knew it had Philips inside - because I saw that the B&O image was better. I just found it curious that the Leica and Lumix were absolutely identical, with the exception of the finger rest on the Pana and the Logo on the Leica. And that's different from Lada/Aston.

I'm pleased as punch with the Lumix version of the technology, but curious as to what this does to the Leica brand ...

Re: A Tale of Two Cameras

Mr10Percent — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 12:45:42 GMT

I think you have to look at it in terms of value and what that value means to you.

Some people think buying B&O is a rip-off. It is afterall only a Samsung or Philips under the expensive skin.

Leica with Lumix / Panasonic (excellent cameras btw - I have one and very simple)

Rolex, Breitling, Omega versus a cheapo LCD quartz watch (more accurate)

A Lada versus an Aston or Bentley - all get you from A to B

A TopMan suit versus a Zenga - (its just cloth!)

Getting Tescos valuepac food and cooking at home versus a night out at Raymond Blancs where the produce is exquisitly selected from

small organic producers of in-season food (at the end of the day it is sustianance!)

There are lots of items that can be compared this way. Usually high value items versus a budget item. Some of us are fortunate as to be able to make a choice as to what we want. some of us are not and have Hobsons choice.

At the end of the day it does not really matter as long as you are happy with your choice.

10%

Re: A Tale of Two Cameras

mobeyone — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 12:39:11 GMT

I have the D-lux 2 and to be honest have always struggled with it, I find it difficult to use as the settings are not the best and can be frustrating at times but the photos have been good.

I actually preffered the Digilux 1 but "upgraded" to the DL2...

Re: A Tale of Two Cameras

soundproof — Tue, 18 Dec 2007 12:33:42 GMT

The Leica?

It's a great camera, no matter what brand it carries, but I find the topic interesting. If there had only been the Leica version, then I would have bought that. And the reason there's a Panasonic version must be related to economies of scale: there aren't enough Leica customers to justify developing the camera, but there are enough Leica and Panasonic customers. (And some of the technology has trickled down to other cameras in the Panasonic range).