General Forum

Re: BV7-40 (HD/Blueray)

355f — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:24:54 GMT

soundproof:
355f:

The whole 1.3 thing is a mess and the problem further is that the transfers on many BR discs are no better than scaled DVD.
The whole industry needs a rethink of a standard for the SOURCE- in theory one should buy a 1080 panel with a BR source and the picture should be superb but in reality on the whole - apart from a few 'status discs' the format doesn't deliver as it should.
The issue of 1.1 profile players is a worry- it makes all previous players obsolete and no one knows if the future 1.1 discs will play on a non 1.1 machine.
Amazing. As it was explained to me manufacturers of players can pick what they want from the broad menu of HDMI 1.3 features -- but the makers of processors and receivers have to make certain that their units can address the whole palette of options and configurations, which makes it very complicated to make reliable components.
I agree. It's a mess -- and consumers should also realize it's a boondoggle, designed to create new DRM standards. I kind of don't like the fact that I could be locked out of my hardware if "it" decides I've made unauthorized use of it. Given the trouble people had playing Pirates of the Caribbean disks they had bought legitimately on their HD players I can only imagine what's going to happen when I'm sitting down to enjoy a movie at the end of the day, only to be told that my player has been deactivated because of "suspected unauthorized use."
I'm amazed at how well my Mac mini is upscaling regular DVDs to my 50" plasma. A friend of mine who's a film director was here last Saturday and we were watching a few scenes from Black Hawk Down (enjoying the sound work). He asked if I had bought BluRay and refused to believe that I was using a mini. (Connected to the screen via a DVI to HDMI conversion cable).

Yes its correct that manufacturers can choose from the 'menu'of 1.1 features. the problem is in reality that as display panels become cheaper the electronics and scaling are of very poor quality. In fact 1080 is a false standard for quality HD- it comes 10th down the list as to what makes a good HD picture. Its getting to the stage where , because of internal losses in the electronics, that with a poor quality 1080 one can lose 40% of the information. So the 1080 screen is incapable of showing HD!!! the Korean brands are the worst LG and samsung make awful plasmas- pleased to say Sony gave up on plasma. Im amazed at the difference watching a panasonic or pioneer plasma compared to say LG- its the difference between hidef and not!

Re: BV7-40 (HD/Blueray)

soundproof — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 17:01:09 GMT

355f:
The whole 1.3 thing is a mess and the problem further is that the transfers on many BR discs are no better than scaled DVD.
The whole industry needs a rethink of a standard for the SOURCE- in theory one should buy a 1080 panel with a BR source and the picture should be superb but in reality on the whole - apart from a few 'status discs' the format doesn't deliver as it should.
The issue of 1.1 profile players is a worry- it makes all previous players obsolete and no one knows if the future 1.1 discs will play on a non 1.1 machine.

Amazing. As it was explained to me manufacturers of players can pick what they want from the broad menu of HDMI 1.3 features -- but the makers of processors and receivers have to make certain that their units can address the whole palette of options and configurations, which makes it very complicated to make reliable components.

I agree. It's a mess -- and consumers should also realize it's a boondoggle, designed to create new DRM standards. I kind of don't like the fact that I could be locked out of my hardware if "it" decides I've made unauthorized use of it. Given the trouble people had playing Pirates of the Caribbean disks they had bought legitimately on their HD players I can only imagine what's going to happen when I'm sitting down to enjoy a movie at the end of the day, only to be told that my player has been deactivated because of "suspected unauthorized use."

I'm amazed at how well my Mac mini is upscaling regular DVDs to my 50" plasma. A friend of mine who's a film director was here last Saturday and we were watching a few scenes from Black Hawk Down (enjoying the sound work). He asked if I had bought BluRay and refused to believe that I was using a mini. (Connected to the screen via a DVI to HDMI conversion cable).

Re: BV7-40 (HD/Blueray)

Niveau — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:53:10 GMT

: -) Well put ! Enjoy the waitout... You will love the equipment I'm sure.

Cheers !

Re: BV7-40 (HD/Blueray)

BeoDane — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:50:55 GMT

Niveau:
Frederick is the owner of two MKIII... Just add's to my point on timing. (You want to stay in the comfortzone... Be real, be objective...OK I'm pushing it now !)
I'm jalous of your MKIII compared to my MKII
The Dane

Go and get yourself a nice Carlsberg, Tuborg or your local brew (ever tried an Odense?) and enjoy your Mk2 - you got it now - I stil have to wait another week, so who's better off? :)

Cheers! - Skål!

Re: BV7-40 (HD/Blueray)

Beolab — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:46:41 GMT

In fact i just own one MK III Dark Grey and one MK II Silver BV7-40...

Maybe i should write 2xBV7-40 (MK II / MK III) in my signature to be correct !? ;)

Regards

Re: BV7-40 (HD/Blueray)

Niveau — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:38:49 GMT

Frederick is the owner of two MKIII... Just add's to my point on timing. (You want to stay in the comfortzone... Be real, be objective...OK I'm pushing it now !)

I'm jalous of your MKIII compared to my MKII

The Dane

Re: BV7-40 (HD/Blueray)

BeoDane — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:35:32 GMT

Exactly my point Fredrik !

Re: BV7-40 (HD/Blueray)

Niveau — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:30:03 GMT

BeoDane,

It's all about balancing the high value / high pricepoint luxury position for B&O and grow the business at the same time. In a maturing market the only way to grow revenues and not loosing the competitive edge in their positioning strategy is to utilize the refurbed/churned products to push new equipments into the market. (I think you know already)

The sad thing is that we all think "our" release were the right timing.. And we are all proven wrong unfortunately (Se 355f's points earlier). I don't wan't to buy Aldi players! I want a fully functioning high end system with upgrade functionality. unfortunately B&O know's that isen't the way to grow their business...

The Dane

I'll hold you up on the beer : -)

Re: BV7-40 (HD/Blueray)

Beolab — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:29:11 GMT

BeoDane:

The Dane:
Sure I see your and others point and the dissapointments from the past surely shines through the statements, but pushing a Mk4 version within 1 or 1.5 years will hurt B&O beyond imagination. If B&O is trying to play "catch-up" with the main stream market, they will lose the game for sure and they know that. Imagine Porche releasing a complete new 911 every year like other brands do. You lose the creditability and eventually your customers, not matter how cool your product may be. Again, we are talking a DVD unit update only, and if you can't wait - go and buy the Aldi multi player, so what's the big deal?
There is no such thing as total future proof or we would not have this topic or any other topic here for that matter. Still the new Mk3 is stunning in picture and quality so bring on the Mk10 - I'll still be smiling a lot with my Mk3
BTW - love Danish beer :)

I hope your dealer is right with the DVD update BeoDane! Because Beo can´t continue to upgrade the BV 7 in this rapidly high speed if they don´t offers a upgrade kit for the inbuilt DVD.. It´s bad for the brand !!!

Re: BV7-40 (HD/Blueray)

BeoDane — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:18:25 GMT

The Dane:

Sure I see your and others point and the dissapointments from the past surely shines through the statements, but pushing a Mk4 version within 1 or 1.5 years will hurt B&O beyond imagination. If B&O is trying to play "catch-up" with the main stream market, they will lose the game for sure and they know that. Imagine Porche releasing a complete new 911 every year like other brands do. You lose the creditability and eventually your customers, not matter how cool your product may be. Again, we are talking a DVD unit update only, and if you can't wait - go and buy the Aldi multi player, so what's the big deal?

There is no such thing as total future proof or we would not have this topic or any other topic here for that matter. Still the new Mk3 is stunning in picture and quality so bring on the Mk10 - I'll still be smiling a lot with my Mk3

BTW - love Danish beer :)

Re: BV7-40 (HD/Blueray)

Niveau — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 15:14:34 GMT

BeoDane:
Niveau:
355f:
BeoDane:
Niveau:

I have heard from my dealer that B&O won't wait until the battle between HD and Blueray is over... They are working on a drive which does both...
Are we looking at a BV7-40 MK4... If so I won't trade my current MK2 just yet...
The Dane
Last week I ordered the BV 7-40 Mk3 and asked my dealer the very same question prior to my order. "Is the internal DVD drive upgradeable to Blue-Ray and/or HD-DVD to make my new investment just a little future proof?" My dealer told me they had the presentation of the new BV7-40 Mk3 in Berlin back in September and the B&O representative replied that "Yes, it will be upgradeable". B&O will launch a stand alone player playing both Blue-Ray and HD-DVD and the unit inside the BV7 will be upgradeable by changing the unit, softwareupdate, and ready to go. I wanted this statement in "black-and-white" whereafter my dealer especially contacted B&O in Struer and this was confirmed (not the forthcoming standalone player.. as usual).
Launching a full HD product like the BV7-40 only makes sense if you can actually utilize the built-in DVD player to the fullest. B&O has chosen to lauch the Mk3 now in order not to lose market share, but the product is upgradeable.. what the DVD unit concerns.

Is this the same B&O that pormised me the BV4/bs2 could be upgraded when in fact the earlier units could not?? -the later BV5 customers who were told that the system could be upgraded and it could not? - even after giving aserial number fo gthe product to B&O !!or maybe the beosytem 2 owners of earlier products that wanted DAB - was told it was an upgrade- when in fact the unit would not sit in the socket unit! or the BV7 owners with sound problems that were never given a fix at all? or the BV7 owners with pictures so dark via DVD they can hardly see it?? where was the fix for that! or the BV7 owners that were told the panle could be updated and it could not!or the beo 5 owners that are forced to look outside the dealer network to get the product to work properly-
Im afraid to say confirmation from B&O as i have discovered to my cost in the past means nothing- get it in writing or my e mail confirmation- bet they wont do that!! or dont buy until its out! thats the best way! and lets face it there is no indication that such a product is going to be available for quite some time so they probably dont know themselves and with all the firmware upgrade problems associated with both blue ray and HDD and the new profile 1.1 no one knows if the Samsung dual format will meet this standard- indications are that it wont-and if indeed it will be any good as a dual format device.
B&O these days is a company bereft of concern for a loyal customer base- they dont care about their customers and accordingly give statements of fact that later turn out to be nothing but ficition and rely on the fact that largely the individuals that buy it are not that bright when it comes to product specs- things are changing fast!

Strong words, but there is some truth in this... Just think about it.. What's the idea behind going with a full HD 7-40 MK3 now and having the knowledge you want to do HDD/Blueray drive at a later date... It don't take much to do the drive, so I'm afraid we will see the MK4 soon.. Go figure...
Having said that, I love the products... Feeling a bit provoced by the product update strategy though...
The Dane

Indeed some strong words. Again if you want the latest technology, buy a different (cheaper) brand. Surely the present panel in the Mk3 is outdated in a few months time (maybe even at this moment) however upgrading a panel, adding the BeoSystem3 to a Mk2 version is a completely different matter than just changing a (broken?) DVD-drive in the Mk3 and update the software. If worst comes to worst.. buy a multiplayer in 2 years time at half the price of a Beo4.... connect it to your HDMI on the Mk3 and you are ready to go.. if is that is what you really want :)
This issue was addressed during the presentation in Berlin back in September. I do think emotions will run quite out of control with dealers and especially customers all over if statements by B&O, during events like that, will not be met in near future or at all.

BeoDane,

I'm afraid that the dealers not always fight the voice of the customer here. They have invested their existence in the brand and does, as B&O themselves, also profit on early churning of products. (Pushing their own products down mainstream via the second hand market.. It's all about top line growth as you know : -)

I'll bet you a good beer that the MK4 will be on the street LONG before we see the upgrade kit...

The Dane

Re: BV7-40 (HD/Blueray)

355f — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 15:01:23 GMT

BeoDane:
Niveau:
355f:
BeoDane:
Niveau:

I have heard from my dealer that B&O won't wait until the battle between HD and Blueray is over... They are working on a drive which does both...
Are we looking at a BV7-40 MK4... If so I won't trade my current MK2 just yet...
The Dane
Last week I ordered the BV 7-40 Mk3 and asked my dealer the very same question prior to my order. "Is the internal DVD drive upgradeable to Blue-Ray and/or HD-DVD to make my new investment just a little future proof?" My dealer told me they had the presentation of the new BV7-40 Mk3 in Berlin back in September and the B&O representative replied that "Yes, it will be upgradeable". B&O will launch a stand alone player playing both Blue-Ray and HD-DVD and the unit inside the BV7 will be upgradeable by changing the unit, softwareupdate, and ready to go. I wanted this statement in "black-and-white" whereafter my dealer especially contacted B&O in Struer and this was confirmed (not the forthcoming standalone player.. as usual).
Launching a full HD product like the BV7-40 only makes sense if you can actually utilize the built-in DVD player to the fullest. B&O has chosen to lauch the Mk3 now in order not to lose market share, but the product is upgradeable.. what the DVD unit concerns.

Is this the same B&O that pormised me the BV4/bs2 could be upgraded when in fact the earlier units could not?? -the later BV5 customers who were told that the system could be upgraded and it could not? - even after giving aserial number fo gthe product to B&O !!or maybe the beosytem 2 owners of earlier products that wanted DAB - was told it was an upgrade- when in fact the unit would not sit in the socket unit! or the BV7 owners with sound problems that were never given a fix at all? or the BV7 owners with pictures so dark via DVD they can hardly see it?? where was the fix for that! or the BV7 owners that were told the panle could be updated and it could not!or the beo 5 owners that are forced to look outside the dealer network to get the product to work properly-
Im afraid to say confirmation from B&O as i have discovered to my cost in the past means nothing- get it in writing or my e mail confirmation- bet they wont do that!! or dont buy until its out! thats the best way! and lets face it there is no indication that such a product is going to be available for quite some time so they probably dont know themselves and with all the firmware upgrade problems associated with both blue ray and HDD and the new profile 1.1 no one knows if the Samsung dual format will meet this standard- indications are that it wont-and if indeed it will be any good as a dual format device.
B&O these days is a company bereft of concern for a loyal customer base- they dont care about their customers and accordingly give statements of fact that later turn out to be nothing but ficition and rely on the fact that largely the individuals that buy it are not that bright when it comes to product specs- things are changing fast!

Strong words, but there is some truth in this... Just think about it.. What's the idea behind going with a full HD 7-40 MK3 now and having the knowledge you want to do HDD/Blueray drive at a later date... It don't take much to do the drive, so I'm afraid we will see the MK4 soon.. Go figure...
Having said that, I love the products... Feeling a bit provoced by the product update strategy though...
The Dane

Indeed some strong words. Again if you want the latest technology, buy a different (cheaper) brand. Surely the present panel in the Mk3 is outdated in a few months time (maybe even at this moment) however upgrading a panel, adding the BeoSystem3 to a Mk2 version is a completely different matter than just changing a (broken?) DVD-drive in the Mk3 and update the software. If worst comes to worst.. buy a multiplayer in 2 years time at half the price of a Beo4.... connect it to your HDMI on the Mk3 and you are ready to go.. if is that is what you really want :)
This issue was addressed during the presentation in Berlin back in September. I do think emotions will run quite out of control with dealers and especially customers all over if statements by B&O, during events like that, will not be met in near future or at all.

With respect I feel my post has been misunderstood- I have access to all the 'other' brands to which you refer - and incidentaly 'other doesnt always mean cheaper but it does mean more up to the minute products that are technically superior with excelolent customer support and as a result a good dealmore 'futureproof' than the present strategy of B&O is turning out to be!

The market is now so fast moving that its impossible to provide backwards compatability or upgradeability on an economic scale- so B&O turns somewhat 'mystic', and veiled - it might- it should- it could- it may- NEVER it WILL in a letter. And they have to continue to do this because if an individual knew for SURE that the £10K he is about to spend buys a product that will be way outdated within the year- even the wealthy will question the value of that purchase and the claim forever given by B&O sales of future upgradealbility. We all doubt it might happen but if you knew for sure it wont- your purchasing would be different. I dont think B&O care to much about their dealers anyway!

Re: BV7-40 (HD/Blueray)

355f — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 14:51:08 GMT

The whole 1.3 thing is a mess and the problem further is that the transfers on many BR discs are no better than scaled DVD.

The whole industry needs a rethink of a standard for the SOURCE- in theory one should buy a 1080 panel with a BR source and the picture should be superb but in reality on the whole - apart from a few 'status discs' the format doesnt deliver as it should.

The issue of 1.1 profile players is a worry- it makes all previous players obsolete and no one knows if the future 1.1 discs will play on a non 1.1 machine.

Re: BV7-40 (HD/Blueray)

soundproof — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 14:41:51 GMT

355f:
soundproof:

SAMSUNG is coming with a combined BluRay/HD-DVD player shortly (been in the rumour mill for quite a while). Maybe B&O are thinking of adapting that?
My Hi-Fi dealer recently confirmed he's expecting the Samsung player in January at the latest.
http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/04/13/1933201&from=rss

Thats correct, but the ability of samsung to produce a quality stand alone blue ray unit has to be questioned- the earler offerings were not very good at ll. The proposed samsung duel format model BDUP5000 is expected to be £490 when it comes out late december , although the launch has been out back quite a bit already

I've heard that "everyone" is having trouble with HDMI 1.3 at present -- that is, the manufacturers of receivers and processors for same? Anything to that?

Have noticed that several announced releases of new processors and receivers (Primare, Rotel, Lexicon) have been delayed and delayed.

I lost patience with the long loading time for BR on a Pioneer player I was using and returned it. Very pleased with DVD upscaling for now.

Re: BV7-40 (HD/Blueray)

BeoDane — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 14:35:39 GMT

Niveau:
355f:
BeoDane:
Niveau:

I have heard from my dealer that B&O won't wait until the battle between HD and Blueray is over... They are working on a drive which does both...
Are we looking at a BV7-40 MK4... If so I won't trade my current MK2 just yet...
The Dane
Last week I ordered the BV 7-40 Mk3 and asked my dealer the very same question prior to my order. "Is the internal DVD drive upgradeable to Blue-Ray and/or HD-DVD to make my new investment just a little future proof?" My dealer told me they had the presentation of the new BV7-40 Mk3 in Berlin back in September and the B&O representative replied that "Yes, it will be upgradeable". B&O will launch a stand alone player playing both Blue-Ray and HD-DVD and the unit inside the BV7 will be upgradeable by changing the unit, softwareupdate, and ready to go. I wanted this statement in "black-and-white" whereafter my dealer especially contacted B&O in Struer and this was confirmed (not the forthcoming standalone player.. as usual).
Launching a full HD product like the BV7-40 only makes sense if you can actually utilize the built-in DVD player to the fullest. B&O has chosen to lauch the Mk3 now in order not to lose market share, but the product is upgradeable.. what the DVD unit concerns.

Is this the same B&O that pormised me the BV4/bs2 could be upgraded when in fact the earlier units could not?? -the later BV5 customers who were told that the system could be upgraded and it could not? - even after giving aserial number fo gthe product to B&O !!or maybe the beosytem 2 owners of earlier products that wanted DAB - was told it was an upgrade- when in fact the unit would not sit in the socket unit! or the BV7 owners with sound problems that were never given a fix at all? or the BV7 owners with pictures so dark via DVD they can hardly see it?? where was the fix for that! or the BV7 owners that were told the panle could be updated and it could not!or the beo 5 owners that are forced to look outside the dealer network to get the product to work properly-
Im afraid to say confirmation from B&O as i have discovered to my cost in the past means nothing- get it in writing or my e mail confirmation- bet they wont do that!! or dont buy until its out! thats the best way! and lets face it there is no indication that such a product is going to be available for quite some time so they probably dont know themselves and with all the firmware upgrade problems associated with both blue ray and HDD and the new profile 1.1 no one knows if the Samsung dual format will meet this standard- indications are that it wont-and if indeed it will be any good as a dual format device.
B&O these days is a company bereft of concern for a loyal customer base- they dont care about their customers and accordingly give statements of fact that later turn out to be nothing but ficition and rely on the fact that largely the individuals that buy it are not that bright when it comes to product specs- things are changing fast!

Strong words, but there is some truth in this... Just think about it.. What's the idea behind going with a full HD 7-40 MK3 now and having the knowledge you want to do HDD/Blueray drive at a later date... It don't take much to do the drive, so I'm afraid we will see the MK4 soon.. Go figure...
Having said that, I love the products... Feeling a bit provoced by the product update strategy though...
The Dane

Indeed some strong words. Again if you want the latest technology, buy a different (cheaper) brand. Surely the present panel in the Mk3 is outdated in a few months time (maybe even at this moment) however upgrading a panel, adding the BeoSystem3 to a Mk2 version is a completely different matter than just changing a (broken?) DVD-drive in the Mk3 and update the software. If worst comes to worst.. buy a multiplayer in 2 years time at half the price of a Beo4.... connect it to your HDMI on the Mk3 and you are ready to go.. if is that is what you really want :)

This issue was addressed during the presentation in Berlin back in September. I do think emotions will run quite out of control with dealers and especially customers all over if statements by B&O, during events like that, will not be met in near future or at all.