General Forum

Re: Format war: Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD

SWISS_2 — Fri, 16 Nov 2007 02:06:27 GMT

My DVD player died of olde age recently, and I thought would be a good time to look more closely at both Blue-Ray and HD players. I could play our DVDs' through the PC, but decided not to.

I saw 4 different BR demonstrations, and the Blue and Red chromas were bright. Very detailed. Two sales reps kept turning the volume up ( " Incredible, isn't it ! " gushed one ) and I kept turning it down. 85 db + does not make a difference except in loss of hearing.

At the same time I saw 3 HD demonstrations, and left feeling the HD was similar. Deja vu.

My ultimate choice however was neither one. It was a Trent/Astar HDX 9380. Why ?

HDMI 1 cable, pictture and sound all digital. I have 2 HDMI ports on my Plasma screen ( one for SAT ), so Adios all component and composite cables. En todo.
The unit plays both PAL and NTSC, and all DVD regions. We have many DVDs' from Europe, North America, and S.America, and this is important to us. We verified this before being the unit was purchased.
The picture is exceptional, as is the sound, especially through a BS 3200 system with BL 4000 speakers. 1080
I thought " Why should I drop the DVDs' I have and enjoy, to take sides over an issue that is not dramatically different or innovative ? " What if choosing one over the other ultimately results in an 800 Euro device that becomes obsolete ?

I've served my military obligation years ago, and like many see no reason whatsoever to get involved in, spending on yet another " war " favouring DVD formats. What rubbish !

Very happy, went back and bought a second unit for another property.

35 Euros each.

Re: Format war: Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD

Dave — Thu, 15 Nov 2007 20:05:24 GMT

What an interesting perspective! It wouldn't surprise me, however. It's a massive massive massive industry through the internet. I've heard a bizarre statistic that a majority of the internet is porn.

Either way, HD or Blueray, it doesn't concern me, until our CRT dies... or gets stolen. The latter is unlikely considering the weight of it.

P.S. HD video in the adult world must certainly be a benefit. Closer the real thing, pores and all! Gee i'm cheeky.

Re: Format war: Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD

Anonymous — Thu, 15 Nov 2007 17:01:10 GMT

soundproof:
jazz:
if VHS survived because of the adult movie industrie then we could see the same success for HD DVD as i believe all the adult movie studio's have chosed this as their format.
I'm not entirely certain that seeing acres of naked flesh in High-Definition resolution, pores and all, will be a benefit to the "adult" industry ...

I quite agree. I'm not an adult movie watcher, however i would expect exactly the opposite would be required for an adult movie. Stretch marks and pimples aren't what people want to see. Look at all the photo shopping that goes on with those womens mags like cosmo etc just to hide blemishes.

This being said, it is a huge industrie and may be a big influence in this market.

I'm rooting for HD DVD, because i like to support the underdog, and i loath sony. They ruined mini disc which could have been a great format, and lets face it they can't even make a decent MP3 player.. uh oh, i'm in danger of going on a sony rant, sorry.

jazz

Re: Format war: Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD

Puncher — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 08:06:51 GMT

soundproof:

Someone once said that modern man's greatest existential challenge is encountered in hotel rooms.
There, you will find "adult" entertainment on the Pay-TV and a Gideon's Bible in the night stand next to your bed. Which you choose will reveal all about your soul.

"The individual consciousness is responsible for all the choices it makes, regardless of the consequences. Condemned to be free because man's actions and choices are his and his alone, he is condemned to be responsible for his free choices."

Alternatively - watch the 5 minute freeview then read the bible as penance

Re: Format war: Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD

soundproof — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 07:43:20 GMT

Someone once said that modern man's greatest existential challenge is encountered in hotel rooms.

There, you will find "adult" entertainment on the Pay-TV and a Gideon's Bible in the night stand next to your bed. Which you choose will reveal all about your soul.

Re: Format war: Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD

dilznik — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 06:53:44 GMT

Pr-0n is the reason for VHS over Betamax.

Pr-0n is the reason the internet took off so fast after years of languishing in the military's backrooms.

Pr-0n is the reason DVD sales took off.

Pr-0n will be the deciding factor in HD vs BR. And Sony, while not actively barring pr-0n companies from Blu-Ray licenses, aren't being helpful about pointing the industry towards production houses. Many of the studios have had to go it alone to produce the disks. Sony was less than pleased when pr-0n started showing up on UMD disks for the PSP. They've never been big fans of porn.

BR has a higher capacity and is technologically better. There's no doubt about it. But when HD is welcoming the pr-0n industry with open arms and BR isn't (as well as BR disks being more expensive to produce) then BR is in trouble. You can torture the numbers all you want to show sales for one or the other following whatever trend you want. But when Digital Playground, one of the biggest producers and one of the first to support BR, decides to jump ship due to expense and difficulties of making BR movies and go to HD-DVD you have to wonder. And Vivid Video, the only pr-0n producer to make Blu-Ray movies, also makes them in HD-DVD... for less money for the same movie.

Another telling point... there are exactly 2 pr-0n titles on BR.

edit: stupid filter. p-o-r-n is not profanity!

edit 2: argh this filter is lame!

edit 3: woot! 100 posts!

Re: Format war: Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD

soundproof — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 06:02:37 GMT

jazz:
if VHS survived because of the adult movie industrie then we could see the same success for HD DVD as i believe all the adult movie studio's have chosed this as their format.

I'm not entirely certain that seeing acres of naked flesh in High-Definition resolution, pores and all, will be a benefit to the "adult" industry ...

Re: Format war: Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD

Anonymous — Wed, 14 Nov 2007 04:33:54 GMT

if VHS survived because of the adult movie industrie then we could see the same success for HD DVD as i believe all the adult movie studio's have chosed this as their format.

However with adult content so freely available on the net then this legitimate adult content bought from stores may have less impact.

jazz

Re: Format war: Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD

Jandyt — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 17:40:52 GMT

Don't leave it there!
I have no experience of either format so am not qualified to comment.
I do know this though. It makes no odds which is best, the great unwashed will chose the winner with their £££s

What a good thread this has been.

BTW, Greg. Thanks for "FWIW" it has been added to the "What does ***** mean?" thread.

Andy T.

Re: Format war: Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD

soundproof — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 16:44:33 GMT

1) Is blu-ray better picture than upscaled DVD (I'm calling 'yes' from my experience)

Agreed - but at present DVD is a much more convenient format, while BR suffers from long start-up times and non-standardized implementation from various providers. But the picture is better on BR.

2) Is 1080 better than 720 (I'm calling 'not necessarily' from my experience)

My experience - from direct comparison of the two screens (50" Pioneer Kuro XD and LX) side-by-side from about 3m: not hugely discernible unless you're dealing with very large screens/projection.

3) blu-ray and HDDVD only exist to introduce DRM to physical media (I think that's a bit of a stretch, but maybe you know better!)

The copyright protection schemes built into the formats, and into HDMI, are such that you can get locked out of your hardware and software if non-authorized use is detected.

in addition to the thread's original topic:

4) Blu-ray vs HDDVD (I'm calling Blu-ray, but it's likely to not matter in the long run)

I would also like BR to "win" - particularly as it has the most storage space for fully transparent, non-compressed audio. But as 355f states above it appears that people don't care enough about that to adopt the new high resolution formats in sufficient numbers.

So maybe we'll leave it there!

Re: Format war: Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD

Greg — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 15:25:49 GMT

soundproof:
As to people stating a huge difference between Full-HD and HD-Ready, at normal viewing distances ... I'd want to ask whether the playback chains were similar.

In case that was directed at me, to clarify: I'm saying that the difference between Blu-ray (or I guess HDDVD) and upscaled DVDs is more obvious on a 1080 screen than it is on a 720. That should really be self-evident!

What I'm *NOT* saying is that 1080 is hugely better (or better at all) picture quality than 720. As I've said many times above (maybe not clearly or frequently enough?) so far, in my experience, 720 plasmas have much nicer picture quality (greater depth, contrast, movement, 'cinematic' quality) than 1080 LCDs (very sharp, very bright, somehow brash and slightly 2-dimensional picture). I haven't watched a 1080 plasma for any length of time (I'm not wealthy enough to have a pioneer 50" full HD and BV4 at my disposal!) so I can't comment on that.

That's a totally different argument, and in fact we're now discussing 3 'extra' topics:

1) Is blu-ray better picture than upscaled DVD (I'm calling 'yes' from my experience)

2) Is 1080 better than 720 (I'm calling 'not necessarily' from my experience)

3) blu-ray and HDDVD only exist to introduce DRM to physical media (I think that's a bit of a stretch, but maybe you know better!)

in addition to the thread's original topic:

4) Blu-ray vs HDDVD (I'm calling Blu-ray, but it's likely to not matter in the long run)

So maybe we'll leave it there!

Re: Format war: Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD

Greg — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 15:05:34 GMT

355f:
Greg:

Well obviously on a 720 set like the BV4 (or indeed 428XD) you'll not notice the difference as much as you do on a 1080 set, for sure. But, and again maybe I'm 'special' but, the difference was very obvious to me. If you can't see it, of course don't bother with BR. But I'm amazed you can't!
I should add the caveat that when I first watched a BR disc I wasn't exactly blown away, but watching the same movie on the same set from a standard DVD straight afterwards suddenly looked very bad! And putting the BR disc back on was like wiping the vaseline from the lens!

well firstly dont get carried away with specifications! processing power is all -1080 is not the holy grail as many have found out- it almost comes bottom of the list in terms of what makes a good picture! interestingly many on the trade are amazed the difference is so small.

I also Have a Pioneer 1080 and cant tell the differmnce with that- and when swopping back to upscaled dvd it is not a significant difference!
Please tell methe discs I should buy to demeonstate the superb 'advances that BR offers??? then many meneber can experience this!

Alright, let's not fall out over this!!! I'm saying that, disregarding specifications completely (perhaps I didn't make it clear enough that I wasn't talking about paper specifications, but my own experience), and relying on my eyes, I have seen a very clear difference. I find it hard to believe that you can't see it, you find it hard to believe that I can. We're evidently different people. As I said before, if you don't need or want blu-ray or hddvd, don't get it! And then this whole thread is also irrelevant to you!!!

---

btw I have viewed only 2 discs - one was Casino Royale, and one was a movie I haven't seen before and I'm afraid I don't know it's name!

Re: Format war: Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD

DoubleU — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 14:56:52 GMT

soundproof:
Maybe we're in for a flashback. Betamax had the best image and sound, but VHS won ...

The only reason VHS won, was because all the adult-movies were released on VHS.

Re: Format war: Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD

Danny — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 14:14:22 GMT

Well, admitted I work at axelmusic.dk. But remember that the statistics are based on sales out of store - I could imagine a number of reasons why any of the camps would sell any retailer and/or webshop a large number of their discs, just to get the sales registered – especially with a large international one - those figures could still turn pages this early in the battle. When that is said, I still don’t think we will necessarily ever see a winner, and if ever: it still might not be the best…

At the moment any new (only to) blu-ray released simultaneously with the DVD will push the statistics in blu-ray as winner direction (we have had 4 large of those this year) – there has not yet been a single (only to) HD-DVD simultaneously with any DVD in Denmark yet. And here the (high-def) backcatalogue has the same insane price as the new (high-def) releases… I think that’s why we don’t share the same statistics as axelmusic.com.

Re: Format war: Blu-ray vs. HD-DVD

soundproof — Tue, 13 Nov 2007 13:57:28 GMT

TWG:
Hi,
in german computer magazine "c't" was a very detailed article about both formats and bluray is technically advanced in some cases. HD-DVD has compressed audio on some tracks which means less quality ...
I hope bluray wins this format war ...

You're right, on most parameters BluRay is technically superior, including having larger storage space. (Though the latter is also why BluRay players are so slow in getting going when you load a disk.)

Maybe we're in for a flashback. Betamax had the best image and sound, but VHS won ...