General Forum

Re: BV9 v Pioneer Kuro(8G series) ?

Joe — Sat, 13 Oct 2007 19:44:02 GMT

I agree with you. B&O doesnt care about all the gadgets and gizmos like most companies. There is a reason we dont have a plethora of colors flashing around the frame etc. B&O= simplicity, beauty, functional...exceptional.

Joe

Re: BV9 v Pioneer Kuro(8G series) ?

Anonymous — Sat, 13 Oct 2007 19:39:22 GMT

i am amazed by what i read here sometimes... I question whether my eyes even work. When i see the panels from any of the other manufactures (excluding this thing that uses 1kw of power) i simply shake my head. I've not seen a picture to compare even the the HDready BV4 50'.

From what i can gather B&O aim for a natural picture. I think the other manufactures get so caught up in one aspect of the image that they forget about everything else. Best Blacks, Worlds Best Motion, Highest Contrast, Brightest Colours, blah blah blah. I really think that it's getting the balance of all of these that makes the B&O picture a standout.

Beyond just the picture though, there is user interface (beo4/beo5) Placement flexibility (motorised stands) Multi room, Amazing sound quality, No tv manufacturer offers anything like BeoSystem 3 (well not that i'm aware of anyhow). There is so much more to B&O that pioneer, panasonic, samsung, LG etc can't get anywhere near.

Maybe i'm just blind and have it all wrong.

jazz

Re: BV9 v Pioneer Kuro(8G series) ?

Roger — Sat, 13 Oct 2007 15:37:54 GMT

soundproof:

I definitely agree with you, Simon. It's as much a question of taste and needs as of technical spec list this or that.
In my case, lowering a screen to a proper height, while keeping the center speaker of the BV9 in operation, resulted in a set-up that I decided against. Maybe if the room had allowed me to rotate sound perspectives, which the BeoSystem 3 is capable of - with the BV9 in one location and the screen in another. But in my case the viewing direction for both flatscreen and projection are the same.
I am also quite aware that six months from now we'll probably be touting a completely different flatscreen for its superiority. What Pioneer has achieved is great though, as it pushes other manufacturers to improve on their flatscreens.

@Soundproof - If the BV9 design was a problem for your, why did you not consider the BV4-50/-65 as this offers the same placement as the Pioneer? Regarding the PQ of the BV9, simply replacing the silver frame with a black one made me belive that the panel had a higher contrast ratio "over night". I would love for B&O to come up with a silver frame that turned black when the tv was turned on.

Roger

Re: BV9 v Pioneer Kuro(8G series) ?

355f — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 12:45:08 GMT

Bingo:

Well, you must find a B&O dealer who also sells Pioneer. Then you see what I mean.
There are some I can tell you in The Netherlands and Belgium.

I dont need to find a dealer!! being a manufacturer I get the samples I want. And I am delighted to say the gen 8 from pioneer was one such item. So I had the benfit of having the bv4 with BS3 and the pioneer to which you refer.

As a result of this I can confirm that the difference is not huge but far better on sd with BS3.

As I stated before there is no such thing now in consumer electronics as a manufacturer that is simply MILES ahead of anyone else - as your posts seem to imply. I quote' the panasonic screen is just a toy compared to the pioneer'

I had the benfit also of comparing the pioneer gen 7 panel with the gen 8 and whilst the blacks are better and contrast better in technical terms- in the real world the huge leap in price compared to discounted gen 7 panels is not worth it IMO.

Plasma has got very good and each new varient brings very SMALL real world benefits

another factor is durability, the gen 7 had a reuptation for screen burn and pwer supply issues the panasonic commercial panels seem more resilient

Re: BV9 v Pioneer Kuro(8G series) ?

Bingo — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 12:20:34 GMT

Well, you must find a B&O dealer who also sells Pioneer. Then you see what I mean.

There are some I can tell you in The Netherlands and Belgium.

Re: BV9 v Pioneer Kuro(8G series) ?

355f — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 07:02:19 GMT

Bingo:

If you see the Full HD Kuro, every current Panasonic plasmapanel is just a toy :-)
The difference is so inmense.
Maybe next year Panasonic matches it, but for now. Not even close!

Well I challenge everyone to visit a store showing the SAME source on a range of plasma panels and then look at the |BV9 and come to the conclusion that the panasonic product is just a toy!! that is really a nonsense.

I have been in the electronics business for 12 years and whilst there are differences between panels it is not the difference to which you refer!

Re: BV9 v Pioneer Kuro(8G series) ?

TerryM — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 06:52:43 GMT

It bears repeating that the panel per se accounts for only part of a TV's performance.

Pioneer's substantial price premium over Panasonic must be attributal,in part,to the former's superior,and more expensive,processing "engine".

A fairer comparison would be between Pioneer,and Fujitsu,which uses Panasonic panels,where the performance difference is extremely tight.

Re: BV9 v Pioneer Kuro(8G series) ?

Bingo — Mon, 08 Oct 2007 06:13:14 GMT

If you see the Full HD Kuro, every current Panasonic plasmapanel is just a toy :-)

The difference is so inmense.

Maybe next year Panasonic matches it, but for now. Not even close!

Re: BV9 v Pioneer Kuro(8G series) ?

Beolab — Sun, 07 Oct 2007 20:01:02 GMT

355f:

Interestingly, when the 8th geenration and kuros series was announced I visited a dealer that had the previous generation and the latest one showing the SAME signal ( and this is relevant as many on here refer to a fantastic dvd they saw on x screen- there are good and bad dvds! so its a pointless debate)
The previous generation was priced £1500 lower than the kuros and yes- the blacks were better , motion was good, but with all the hype i had read I was impressed but not unduly so. In fact for a such a little difference I would have saved the extra money and bought the previous generation.
And this is the problem with plasma and the electronics industry in general ( which I am part of) The advances of each new generation of product are relatively small and the public cant be convinced that they should pay so much more for so little benefit. This is the case with 1080 screens below 60" hence the reason why the proce premuim is dropping like a stone.
In short, ahigh def image on any current plasma should look very good and on a BV9 or kuros - even better. However its all about the SOURCE and this is where the BS3 does a great job with standard definition sources- DTV is better in my opinion . The BV9 is calibrated from the factory - the pioneers are not. But the CEO of pioneer made the point that huge advantages in quality in plasma over lcd were lost on the buying public who seem oblivious to image quality anyway!
So the pioneer is set up to give a high contrast hi colour and brash image( which most seem to like- hence the WOW effect- a bit like a MASS of bass on a hifi-and leave its settings as out of the box) you really need to calibrate it- and when you do on a high def source its slightly better than the BV9 showing the SAME source but on DTV the BV9 is ahead.

Now onto choice of a partner- B&O choose commercial grade plasma from panasonic and they are the best for reliability and lack of screen retention. NEC are not a worthy contender- take it from me!! BUT panasonic next year have a new panel comming out- higher contrast ratioo that pioneer ectect so just becuase ONE manufacturer is ahead this week- its next week you need to look at!
Its always disspointing whenone gets a post saying the BV9 was awful as the aerial was poor and yet- never a post saying the pioneer was bad because of the same issue- the competitor is always just marvelous!! and that not been my expereince at all.
The 1080 screen in the B&O is likely to make no difference( or worse for SD viewing) But you get very good image processing and a complete SS system with BS3

355f: When i say WoW effect i mean that the picture quality should be stunning for the high price..!

Have you heard of a Canadian High End company named BrightSide? They have made a LCD tv with LED backlight just for professional use that cost´s the same as the BV9. The BrightSide DR37-P Extreme Dynamic Range have 200.000:1 in contrast ratio! The power-usage are enormous with 1KW/h ! The chassie have an inbuilt refrigerator cooling system so the TV doesn't´t melt because of all the heat that develops..! And the spectators ho have viewed the BrightSide LCD have all felt dizzy and ill because of the real-life-looking picture!! The picture where so bright and realistic almost more realistic than real life but more digitalized if you now what i mean...

And thats what i call WoW effect for the buck! If i spend 200.000:- Swedish Crowns (BV9) on a tele i would be happy if i get the half WoW effect of the BrightSide TV in a B&O.. But the B&O tv:s are more like ordinary tv:s packed in nice boxes with a little digital "hooks and pokes" on the video-processing...

I bought my BV7 only for the design and 40% PQ..

I hope my new BV7-40 MK III will have 60% PQ

Regards

Re: BV9 v Pioneer Kuro(8G series) ?

TerryM — Sun, 07 Oct 2007 07:26:52 GMT

GANGO:

hi, terryM,
my 1080p BV9 will arrive in a couple of weeks,i will let you know....i can't wait.....it is christmas, eastern and halloween in one day!!!

Hi GANGO,

you forgot to mention all your birthdays!

The suspense of waiting must be agonising.

Please post your thoughts on the BV9(if you can tear yourself away from viewing).

Re: BV9 v Pioneer Kuro(8G series) ?

TerryM — Sun, 07 Oct 2007 07:16:44 GMT

In the relevent Pioneer threads on www.avforums.com website,it would appear that the LX full HD models excel the already excellent XD models.In fact,the concensus view of three dealers/professional (ISF) installlers is that partially calibrated-codes have yet to be released to enable a full ISF calibration- the LX picture quality was equal to that of a broadcast monitor at three times the price.

I do not know if one can lay the blame for any shortcomings in the BV9's PQ on the Panasonic panel,since,as far as I am aware,Fujitsu use a Panasonic panel in their TVs including the £12000 Aviamo model.

In any event,I was given to believe that B & O use Panasonic's highly regarded commercial panels.

In a recent conversation with my local dealer,he said that he had recently installed a full HD BV9,and "the picture was stunning",but he could see no difference between the old,and the new BV9.

Re: BV9 v Pioneer Kuro(8G series) ?

355f — Sun, 07 Oct 2007 07:11:37 GMT

Interestingly, when the 8th geenration and kuros series was announced I visited a dealer that had the previous generation and the latest one showing the SAME signal ( and this is relevant as many on here refer to a fantastic dvd they saw on x screen- there are good and bad dvds! so its a pointless debate)

The previous generation was priced £1500 lower than the kuros and yes- the blacks were better , motion was good, but with all the hype i had read I was impressed but not unduly so. In fact for a such a little difference I would have saved the extra money and bought the previous generation.

And this is the problem with plasma and the electronics industry in general ( which I am part of) The advances of each new generation of product are relatively small and the public cant be convinced that they should pay so much more for so little benefit. This is the case with 1080 screens below 60" hence the reason why the proce premuim is dropping like a stone.

In short, ahigh def image on any current plasma should look very good and on a BV9 or kuros - even better. However its all about the SOURCE and this is where the BS3 does a great job with standard definition sources- DTV is better in my opinion . The BV9 is calibrated from the factory - the pioneers are not. But the CEO of pioneer made the point that huge advantages in quality in plasma over lcd were lost on the buying public who seem oblivious to image quality anyway!

So the pioneer is set up to give a high contrast hi colour and brash image( which most seem to like- hence the WOW effect- a bit like a MASS of bass on a hifi-and leave its settings as out of the box) you really need to calibrate it- and when you do on a high def source its slightly better than the BV9 showing the SAME source but on DTV the BV9 is ahead.

Now onto choice of a partner- B&O choose commercial grade plasma from panasonic and they are the best for reliability and lack of screen retention. NEC are not a worthy contender- take it from me!! BUT panasonic next year have a new panel comming out- higher contrast ratioo that pioneer ectect so just becuase ONE manufacturer is ahead this week- its next week you need to look at!

Its always disspointing whenone gets a post saying the BV9 was awful as the aerial was poor and yet- never a post saying the pioneer was bad because of the same issue- the competitor is always just marvelous!! and that not been my expereince at all.

The 1080 screen in the B&O is likely to make no difference( or worse for SD viewing) But you get very good image processing and a complete SS system with BS3

Re: BV9 v Pioneer Kuro(8G series) ?

mr_anders_son — Sun, 07 Oct 2007 04:27:52 GMT

Beolab:
TerryM:

Thanks for the responses.
My reason for posing the question was that,notwithstanding it's inbuilt additional features,for it's price the BV9 should be capable of producing PQ that was comparable to,if not better than,the best that was currently available.
An additonal reason was to ascertain if B & O had "raised the bar" with the introduction of a full HD panel in the BV9.
Has anyone seen the 1080p BV9?
I have only seen the previous generation,and was very impressed with the PQ.

As i mentioned in another tread that i´m in Borås at my girlfriends place over the weekend. And yesterday i was visiting the B&O B1 store here in the little but rich town Borås! I must say it was the nicest B&O store i have ever visited before.. ! They had their own cinema room with a full HD projector and every B&O product in the line.. (They had also a small Beoliving with Spanish design furnitures and more and more ) ... And i saw the BV 9 Full HD and the BV 8 32 for example.. The BV 9 was just hooked up with satellite areal and the picture where noisy and looked poor with 1000 artefact's sadley...
So i asked the B&o salesman to put on a DVD with the BC2. And i must say the picture are better than Panasonic 50" 1080p screens but one or two "plasma-generations" behind Pioneer Kuro sadley..! The picture are average with no wow effect at all! I wanna have WOW this picture are crazy when i look at 195.000:- Swedish Kronor! The colors are laid back and the "pixel-matrix" are not so exact in the picture.. a little bit stressed, not so calm and perfect as Pioneer.. I tried to tweak up the picture but without sucses...
So B&O! Go for NEC/Pioneer screens next time you commit deal ! Trust me they are the leading Plasma company in the world right now, not Panasonic! Because when Panasonic think they have overtaken the lead, they can´t see Pioneer because they are so far ahead in the horison...;)

Regards Fredrik L.
(Note: Pioneer uses Nec panels ... )

Ok thats technical view, but you cant say that you get a "wow" effect when you look at the whole Pioneer set, and NOT when you look at BV9

Re: BV9 v Pioneer Kuro(8G series) ?

Beolab — Sat, 06 Oct 2007 17:47:32 GMT

TerryM:

Thanks for the responses.
My reason for posing the question was that,notwithstanding it's inbuilt additional features,for it's price the BV9 should be capable of producing PQ that was comparable to,if not better than,the best that was currently available.
An additonal reason was to ascertain if B & O had "raised the bar" with the introduction of a full HD panel in the BV9.
Has anyone seen the 1080p BV9?
I have only seen the previous generation,and was very impressed with the PQ.

As i mentioned in another tread that i´m in Borås at my girlfriends place over the weekend. And yesterday i was visiting the B&O B1 store here in the little but rich town Borås! I must say it was the nicest B&O store i have ever visited before.. ! They had their own cinema room with a full HD projector and every B&O product in the line.. (They had also a small Beoliving with Spanish design furnitures and more and more ) ... And i saw the BV 9 Full HD and the BV 8 32 for example.. The BV 9 was just hooked up with satellite areal and the picture where noisy and looked poor with 1000 artefact's sadley...

So i asked the B&o salesman to put on a DVD with the BC2. And i must say the picture are better than Panasonic 50" 1080p screens but one or two "plasma-generations" behind Pioneer Kuro sadley..! The picture are average with no wow effect at all! I wanna have WOW this picture are crazy when i look at 195.000:- Swedish Kronor! The colors are laid back and the "pixel-matrix" are not so exact in the picture.. a little bit stressed, not so calm and perfect as Pioneer.. I tried to tweak up the picture but without sucses...

So B&O! Go for NEC/Pioneer screens next time you commit deal ! Trust me they are the leading Plasma company in the world right now, not Panasonic! Because when Panasonic think they have overtaken the lead, they can´t see Pioneer because they are so far ahead in the horison...;)

Regards Fredrik L.

(Note: Pioneer uses Nec panels ... )

Re: BV9 v Pioneer Kuro(8G series) ?

GANGO — Sat, 06 Oct 2007 09:26:05 GMT

hi, terryM,

my 1080p BV9 will arrive in a couple of weeks,i will let you know....i can't wait.....it is christmas, eastern and halloween in one day!!!