General Forum

Re: B&O Give me a reason...

The Beonic Man — Tue, 02 Oct 2007 16:53:18 GMT

Peter:

Agree. the problem we have is that B&O products are designed to last for years and perform at near to the top of the market. For this they ask a premium price. The audio range manages that because the prevailing technology, CD, is stable and therefore even the first models still perform well.
Plasma and LCD are still improving and an early BV6 would now be regarded as having a poor picture. This devalues it and a customer trading in will find his investment worthless. This means he is less likely to fall for the same promise of longevity again especially when the sets are inferior in specs to the competition. I know that comparing pictures will often result in the B&O set being judged better, but at some point, the B&O set will be upgraded to the latest spec and the older model relegated to old hat. This makes life very difficult for the dealers at present and I think they do a good job - especially during the time that HD has been introduced and B&O have not provided them with full HD sets or digital tuners.
The introduction of the new BV7-40 will finally provide them with some real ammunition and this is a set that could well tempt me.

This is a set that tempted me too Peter and last Wednesday I finally gave into temptation and had the BeoVison 7-40 installed in my home. I had thought long and hard about purchasing this TV as you know first hand, for all the reasons mentioned above and many more. It was a difficult choice because the BeoVision 5 won me over for style. There was no comparison. However, the BeoVision 7-40 won me over for practicality in terms of being future proof, as much as one can be given current technologies and their advancements.

I will be upgrading to the new BeoVision 7-40 as soon as it is available, which I believe to be around the 18th of this month or soon after. It was the knowledge of this new model that finalised my decision because as you say, and I agree with you, "...the introduction of the new BV7-40 will finally provide them (the dealers) with some real ammunition." Every review that I read about the forthcoming model, paying particular attention to reviews from USA dealers, customers and independent reviewers, set in my mind firmly that this set was well worth the wait and worth every penny of its asking price. These type of reviews were exactly what I was hoping for.

My new set will never stand the test of time that the Avant has and I accept that happily. How could it? We are in different times with different technologies and the very most that any of us can do is to choose the best set available at the time and the new BeoVision 7-40 represents that current choice. I am 100% satisfied with my decision and know that I have made the best choice possible. All that remains to be said is that if I wanted to be 'picky' about what I consider to be 'small and not important enough factors' (for me) with regard to picture quality and enhancement then I would undoubtedly have bought the latest Pioneer televisions I am sure. But, and this is a BIG but, I don't want a Pioneer television in my lounge, I want a Bang and Olufsen and for me, it doesn't get any simpler than that. I am getting so much pleasure already from the current BeoVision 7-40 installed, its fuelling me with excitement and much anticipation for the new model. I can't wait to see it operating in all modes including high definition, which I will start subscribing to with Sky the day it arrives.

Finally, you mention that the dealers do a good job with what is available in the current B&O product range. I would have to agree with you given my experiences with B&O of Bath (and Swindon) who really have offered a first class service, above and beyond the call of duty. They are a good bunch who have given me the best advice possible throughout. A bit of a plug there but they deserve it. Thanks guys if you are reading.

Simon.

Re: B&O Give me a reason...

Peter — Tue, 02 Oct 2007 15:45:33 GMT

Agree. the problem we have is that B&O products are designed to last for years and perform at near to the top of the market. For this they ask a premium price. The audio range manages that because the prevailing technology, CD, is stable and therefore even the first models still perform well.

Plasma and LCD are still improving and an early BV6 would now be regarded as having a poor picture. This devalues it and a customer trading in will find his investment worthless. This means he is less likely to fall for the same promise of longevity again especially when the sets are inferior in specs to the competition. I know that comparing pictures will often result in the B&O set being judged better, but at some point, the B&O set will be upgraded to the latest spec and the older model relegated to old hat. This makes life very difficult for the dealers at present and I think they do a good job - especially during the time that HD has been introduced and B&O have not provided them with full HD sets or digital tuners.

The introduction of the new BV7-40 will finally provide them with some real ammunition and this is a set that could well tempt me.

Re: B&O Give me a reason...

Puncher — Tue, 02 Oct 2007 15:26:18 GMT

Alex:

I challenge you to find better upscaling or picture processing than that in the BeoSystem 3. Sure, the panels aren't as up-to-date as they could be, but to my eyes the picture still seems more natural than other sets out there...

and thats my point - within a month or two it will have become commonplace and then your umpty £' 000 outlay starts to look a bit silly.

I hope I'm not sounding negative, I'm just trying to make the point that it is difficult to justify spending that sort of money (if you live and work in the real world) in the sure knowledge that it will be playing videos in the kids bedroom this time next year (a slight exageration to highlight my point)

Sqillionaires excluded of course!

Re: B&O Give me a reason...

Alex — Tue, 02 Oct 2007 15:20:59 GMT

I challenge you to find better upscaling or picture processing than that in the BeoSystem 3. Sure, the panels aren't as up-to-date as they could be, but to my eyes the picture still seems more natural than other sets out there...

Re: B&O Give me a reason...

Puncher — Tue, 02 Oct 2007 15:20:02 GMT

Agree with wirralsimon here. I think B&O are in a real hole with regards to TV's at the moment. The old model of using the best CRT available and developing their own analogue electronics for picture control doesn't work anymore. Sure they can still offer great design, sound and connectivity (athough this has been debated at length over recent months with regard to HD) but the killer parameter for a TV has got to be the picture - especially if you position yourself as a leading brand. We all know that CRT design was pretty much at its peak and therefore changed very little and in any case very slowly. This allowed TV's like the Avant to maintain its top position for an extended period of time.

Now that panels are being updated on an almost weekly basis it is impossible to maintain any sort of leading position in picture quality when using other manufacturers panels - certainly they can never be first to market with the latest and greatest, nor is it feasible to produce their own. Picture control and features is now pretty much an exercise in DSP programming.

The net result is that the chances of a B&O TV having the best picture in class is, for the vast majority of time, very, very slim. It is also unlikely, for the foreseeable future, that TV's with have the same longevity as the CRT based models. The issue then boils down to -

Is the design and exclusivity of a B&O flat screen TV worth the (considerable) extra outlay given that it will likely have an inferior picture to other less expensive models and will have a much shorter "acceptable" working life.

It is a much more difficult question to answer than it was 5 years ago!

Re: B&O Give me a reason...

Stars — Tue, 02 Oct 2007 15:19:54 GMT

wirralsimon:
Alex:

Why buy a BMW or Audi when you can get a Toyota for a tenth the cost? Why buy a beautifully finished house in a fantastic location when you can get something with the same number of rooms in a different lesser location for much less? It should be the same with TVs, HiFi and Computers, but sadly, people just buy things based around the 'features' or specs they get for the price...

I think the sheer pace of change in the LCD/Plasma TV market means that B&O isn't automatically the best, even given the price tag, and that is where your analogy breaks down. So you have a better design, but an arguably inferior product.
Bear in mind that for many of us buying brand new B&O is a substantial investment, so it makes sense to expect something in return for that level of investment. This makes the current range of B&O TV's hard to recommend at the price.

I think Simon's point is very true in this case. This is also why many B&O owners believe their Avant still has a better picture than any of the current B&O TVs. Or perhaps because they think an Avant is worth much more for its price, which I too would certainly agree with. Goodness me, how much B&O I wish I could have!

Re: B&O Give me a reason...

wirralsimon — Tue, 02 Oct 2007 14:01:25 GMT

Alex:
Why buy a BMW or Audi when you can get a Toyota for a tenth the cost? Why buy a beautifully finished house in a fantastic location when you can get something with the same number of rooms in a different lesser location for much less? It should be the same with TVs, HiFi and Computers, but sadly, people just buy things based around the 'features' or specs they get for the price...

Half right!

I think the sheer pace of change in the LCD/Plasma TV market means that B&O isn't automatically the best, even given the price tag, and that is where your analogy breaks down. So you have a better design, but an arguably inferior product.

Bear in mind that for many of us buying brand new B&O is a substantial investment, so it makes sense to expect something in return for that level of investment. This makes the current range of B&O TV's hard to recommend at the price.

Simon

Re: B&O Give me a reason...

archie — Tue, 02 Oct 2007 13:16:24 GMT

"...Why buy a BMW or Audi when you can get a Toyota for a tenth the cost..."

Because you don't find R8 or Z4 in the toyota brand......

Re: B&O Give me a reason...

soundproof — Tue, 02 Oct 2007 12:57:10 GMT

Alex is right here. There's a spectrum of capabilities, brand cachet and craftsmanship that decides what's a fair price, and what isn't.

With B&O you're supposed to get something extra, and will, as long as the brand maintains its cachet. Which also means that the dealers have to understand it takes work to maintain it, if they don't provide added value, then there's no way B&O can keep charging at the premium level.

I have both televisions.

A 50" Pioneer Plasma HD of the latest Kuro generation (because it's the best screen I've ever watched) and a BeoVision 8 on the sculptural floorstand in my home office. Fell in love with the BV8 when I saw the prototype - to my eyes it's the most beautiful television ever made. The Pioneer I bought because of the image quality, but it's got a cheap plastic frame and I'm looking forward to hiding that when building it into the wall in my home entertainment room.

I can buy a "Grundig" flatscreen that's a lot cheaper still (made in Taiwan, though, and with an image quality that gives new meaning to the term image smear). I choose not to. The image on the Pioneer surprises me with its near perfection (as someone pointed out above someone else is bound to come with something even sharper/richer/truer -- for now, I'm satisfied.) The sheer presence of the BeoVision 8, and the design rationale for the speaker bar, gives me another form of pleasure - expressive design, form, function, B&O irrationality.

Re: B&O Give me a reason...

Alex — Tue, 02 Oct 2007 12:46:10 GMT

Why buy a BMW or Audi when you can get a Toyota for a tenth the cost? Why buy a beautifully finished house in a fantastic location when you can get something with the same number of rooms in a different lesser location for much less? It should be the same with TVs, HiFi and Computers, but sadly, people just buy things based around the 'features' or specs they get for the price...

Re: B&O Give me a reason...

Stars — Tue, 02 Oct 2007 12:29:11 GMT

That I totally agree. My local dealer in Monza is a very arrogant man, who doesn't really know that much about his own product. To sum up this point - his showroom STINKS of cigarette smoke.

Massimo, I don't think BeoVision 8 will offer you the best LCD picture there is at the moment, reason being that B&O are generally a little bit behind the likes of Samsung, Sony, Panasonic etc in terms of the very latest technology.
I think a reasonable example of this is the new Serenata, and the Serene when it was launched. How many people said 'this phone should have been released 2 years ago?'

Now back to the TVs, I do not think B&O are this far behind with their LCD technology (they are Samsung pannels anyway, I think!), but it's likely that the picture of the new Pioneer will be better.

I think another important point to make with regards to this thread is that LCD technology is improving almost every day, and so when I bought my BeoVision 8, I had to accept that in a year's time there would definitely be a better LCD available on the market. This will be the same whether you buy a B&O, Samsung, or a Bush LCD TV tomorrow.

I personally would feel intimidated by such an enormous news lady on a 50" TV every night while watching the news! I would only buy a 50" TV for the sole use of home cinema.

The BeoVision 8 will be just right for watching the news and movies (as long as you are not a hardcore home cinema fan). I love the design, especially the grilled shelf. And perhaps more importantly, I love the connectivity the BeoVision 8 offers with the rest of the B&O in the house.

Am I buying you over?!

Re: B&O Give me a reason...

archie — Tue, 02 Oct 2007 12:20:43 GMT

"..I want the best tv and the best audio around the world!.."

If you want the best LCD or PLASMA, prepare you to change every 6 months...

Re: B&O Give me a reason...

scognamiglio — Tue, 02 Oct 2007 12:14:29 GMT

I will use my new tv for everything... from news to movies...

I want to underline my though: if I pay 4000 euros for a 32" I want the best tv and the best audio around the world! I can spend 8000 euros for a beovision 7 but I want a bluray and the best lcd around the world (and it's not!) (of course: beovison 7, great design, great materials, great sound).

When some years ago I bought my stuff it was the best stuff all around the world (and it's true today).

I want to be sure the inside my B&O there is the best panel, I want to be sure that beosystem 3 is the best...

B&O must be the best.

Another thing: the dealers in Italy do not understand nothing about technology, about design, about nothing!

Re: B&O Give me a reason...

scognamiglio — Tue, 02 Oct 2007 12:14:15 GMT

I will us my new tv for everything... from news to movies...

When some years ago I bought my stuff it was the best stuff all around the world (and it's true today).

I want to be sure the inside my B&O there is the best panel, I want to be sure that beosystem 3 is the best...

B&O must be the best.

Another thing: the dealers in Italy do not understand nothing about technology, about design, about nothing!

Re: B&O Give me a reason...

Stars — Tue, 02 Oct 2007 12:05:55 GMT

Barry: Beo5

Massimo: could you tell us in what way you would like to use your new TV? The difference between a 50" and 32" TV seems huge to me! In other words, are you looking for a TV which can offer you a stunning movie experience, or an up to date day to day TV (just like how I use my BeoVision 8 in the kitchen)?