General Forum

Re: vintage vs. modern B&O products

Peter — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 09:57:46 GMT

If it is sounding good to you, leave it alone! When something goes wrong, do it then. My old dealer actually re-capped a Beomaster 8000 for me - I am useless at this sort of thing! - and it cost less than £100 - well worth it for the improvement. I dare say Martin can tell you the scale of what needs doing!

Re: vintage vs. modern B&O products

Friedmett — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 09:55:43 GMT

The only trouble is the typical 20 odd years or more on the older stuff makes most of the units in need of af qualified repairman for the most part.

At the moment Dillen is going through my Beogram 8002 and I just got a white edition Beosystem 6000 without speakers/stand and remote from Lauritz.com.

I got the 3 units, Beogram 6006 (original mmc20en nearly new!), Beomaster 6000 (DOA), Beocord 6000 (belts and other).

It was no surprice that while being rather clean looking needs service but again that goes buying without testing.

Once its working you have sounds for life basically while for the most part a great design.

I can also vote for having the best system in life all though I still need them done.

My pair of M150 speakers are truly holy!

Re: vintage vs. modern B&O products

wirralsimon — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 09:35:22 GMT

Thanks Peter

I was seriously tempted by a pair of M150's that came up on eBay locally (they sold for less than £50, leaving some financial headroom for restoration/reconing) but I chickened out because they are huge and I can't imagine my better half tolerating them in our living room without more of a fight that I would be prepared to put up!

Have you got any idea how long it would take to replave all the capacitors on the BC7000? I am guessing Martin may be able to supply a capacitor kit but I would need to pay someone to do the soldering etc. I replaced the capacitiors in one of my pairs of s45-2s but that that is my limit as far as DIY goes! Is it something I should look to do pre-emptively or when I experience problems, i.e. would there be a noticeable increase in SQ if I got it done now?

Simon

Re: vintage vs. modern B&O products

Peter — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 08:38:57 GMT

I doubt very much that you would get any improvement at all! I think bigger speakers would give you some expansion of the covered frequencies - depending on your room, a pair of M75s or M100s would be a real upgrade to the bass and would work nicely with the excellent amplifier in your BC7000. The rosewood finish on these speakers are, by the way, to die for! Probably cost you another £150 mind you!

I would suggest that a big upgrade is, if necessary, to have the capacitors in the BC7000 looked at as it will probably be drifting off spec but otherwise keep it. My best sounding system is my Beogram 4000 and Beomaster 4400 when played through M100s. Certainly preferable to my newer systems. Much less convenient and take up far too much space though! Houses are changing and coffin like boxes are frowned upon. Therefore manufacturers will sell products that the market wants - see LCD TVs. Are these better than CRTs? Of course not - especially the dreadful early incarnations - but people still bought them!!

Re: vintage vs. modern B&O products

wirralsimon — Thu, 29 Nov 2007 05:34:51 GMT

I have been pondering this issue for a while. I currently have a Beocenter 7000 with a pair of the aforemtioned s45-2s on the original stands and a modern Sony CD player which will probably be replaced by a CDX in due course so it matches better.

The setup I have now may not be at the cutting edge and would probably suffer by comparison with some of the newer items in the B&O range (not sure by how much though), but but the system I have now is the best system I have ever owned, cost me less that £150 all in and enables me to fully enjoy my music without being inhibited in any way by lack of fidelity so I think I would get very little return for the £1500 or so it would cost to upgrade to something like a 4500/5550/6500 and a set of Pentas.

I have also learned that CD is not better than vinyl, the differences I thought were there were down to the low quality of my previous turntable!

Finally I have some deep-seated conditioning in my mind that says speakers come in square wooden cabinets, and the classic B&O rosewood look is still my favourite, despite the innovations of the last few years.

Simon

Re: vintage vs. modern B&O products

solderon29 — Wed, 28 Nov 2007 13:33:17 GMT

Indeed.You set which channels you want on your system,then put them in the same channel slots you already use,so your tv's etc only need to be tuned to additional channels.As in reality,Freeview amounts to "threeview",there being only about three extra digital channels worth watching(inmho)these could be slotted in easily

The makers don't list this device on their website,but then,they have'nt updated the site since 2005! It's currently available to the trade,but I guess retail price will be about £500.Cheaper than replacing say,several servicable tv's and recorders?

More info if I can find it in due course.

Re: vintage vs. modern B&O products

Peter — Wed, 28 Nov 2007 08:49:12 GMT

Now that sounds interesting! Does it sort the channels so you can tune using an analogue tuner? Link please!!

Re: vintage vs. modern B&O products

solderon29 — Wed, 28 Nov 2007 05:51:32 GMT

A number of innovative products are appearing on the market,that should help to offset the nonsense of digital switchover.Digital processing can be an improvement,but it's not as wonderfull as suggested.All the hype is driving consumers into the shops,convinced that their screens are going to go blank any day soon,if they don't buy a new set.

Already,a device is available that converts digital tv signals,at the aerial, back to analogue,so all your perfectly useful analogue equipment such as tv,video recorders(vhs and dvd etc) can still be used.The digital signal is passed through too,so you can add digital products as as when they get better.

Regards,

Nick

Re: vintage vs. modern B&O products

jc — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 09:19:06 GMT

Hearing (acoustic) music through a pair of s45-2 rosewood speakers on their stands is very near hearing a live orchestra, they cost around 20 euro's each these days....

However, there is a difference in sound between the CD players; beocenter 9300 sounds a bit more mettalic/flat than the 9500, the CDX is very good too.

Re: vintage vs. modern B&O products

Peter — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 09:16:28 GMT

I have complete sympathy for John's view. However to be fair, I can get far more channels on my DAB radio in acceptable quality than on my other radios. Not as good quality as a good FM signal I agree. And I am biased because about 95% of the time I use the BBC. Being able to get a good signal for World Service is a revelation and I enjoy the new BBC channels like BBC7 immensely. In fact the radios are usually on either Radio 4 or 7 about 80% of the time. Not a typical customer I suppose! (Cricket season sees more Radio 5 !)

Re: vintage vs. modern B&O products

Beowulf — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 08:20:29 GMT

I am very fond of my collection of old Beomasters and love the quality of some FM broadcasts, I also prefer CRT to LCD and Plasma at present. (LX6000 & MX7000)

Regarding comments ins some of the posts above, there have been frequent articles in Thursday's Guardian Tech supplement regarding DAB v FM and HiFI World.

1. Information gleaned from a number of articles are that in relation to the bit rate FM would be equivalent to 750 to 850 k/bits, assuming that you are in reasonable proximity to a transmitter or using an appropriate roof ariel.

2. DAB (outdated mp2 codec) may be replaced in the near future with DAB+aac, which would render existing DAB units redundant as the codec is incompatible.

3. The lack of interest commercially other than the amount of advertising and promotion devoted to DAB by the BBC (If the BBC were selling the equivalent advertising on a commercial basis may be considered to be in the region of £40 per Dab radio sold in the UK!) This may also be why a definite cut off date for FM broadcasts has not been given.

I agree with Peter that the biggest potential lies with internet broadcasting and to a lesser extent cable and satellite transmissions. What would be useful from my perspective would be an adaptor/converter that would retransmit over a short range for example DAB+aac to FM in order that we might continue to enjoy the quality of our B&o equipment. (similar to devices available for the iPod).

Kind regards

Dave

Re: vintage vs. modern B&O products

j0hnbarker — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 06:37:45 GMT

Peter:

Actually not so sure! I am gradually moving to digital - I do have some beolits but I also have a couple of digital radios - my latest is a Pure Oasis. I use it in the bathroom as it is waterproof and has a rechargeable battery. Rather bigger than I expected but good tone and excellent reception. I would have bought a BS3 but it cannot receive some of the channels I listen to so was not an option.
LW is not that great - too much interference and I imagine MW will start being shut off. Therefore DAB seems to be it - for the moment. Internet radio will probably replace it!

I know where you're coming from Peter, but if you're happy with MW/LW/FM reception in your area and the expensive collection of analogue radios you've assembled, you might feel as cold as I do towards DAB. It's often the case that we sleepwalk towards a new state of affairs and only realise what's gone once it's too late. Why is it that in the UK most commercial braodcasters are indifferent towards DAB and the platform is being pushed remorselessly only by the BBC? It seems a shame that one public broadcaster can lead us up this particular garden path. Fair play with digital TV as the range of programming is a real bonus over what was available on the analogue systems, but there aren't hundreds of digital radio stations cropping up, and we're being sold DAB purely because it's 'digital' and therefore meant to be perceived in some way as superior - which in a lot of areas it isn't because the signal is poo - to a decent analogue set!

Re: vintage vs. modern B&O products

Peter — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 05:41:39 GMT

Actually not so sure! I am gradually moving to digital - I do have some beolits but I also have a couple of digital radios - my latest is a Pure Oasis. I use it in the bathroom as it is waterproof and has a rechargeable battery. Rather bigger than I expected but good tone and excellent reception. I would have bought a BS3 but it cannot receive some of the channels I listen to so was not an option.

LW is not that great - too much interference and I imagine MW will start being shut off. Therefore DAB seems to be it - for the moment. Internet radio will probably replace it!

Re: vintage vs. modern B&O products

j0hnbarker — Tue, 27 Nov 2007 04:21:29 GMT

kevinoils:

I understnd your frustration here, I have beolit radios which I am just keeping as it took me ages to find these and they are truly lovely to listen to. I have a friend who got a DAB as a present and she thinks she gets a better reception from her old cheep radio she had before. I am not sure were we are going to be with digital my old stuff just seems better and this is not sentimental. I had my beolit playing one day hidden out of view and my friend thought the sound was coming from my bigger system, he was really surprised. I jope we will be able to do something with these radios when we all switch to digital.
Kevin

I hope we can too. I was listening to my Beolit 609 in the bathroom last night and the sound quality was truly amazing for such an old set. I was listening to a football pundit show on Radio 5 and each of the pundits' voices were so crystal clear - I just can't see the point of DAB! Why change things just for the sake of it, when what we're used to serves us so well? I'm no luddite believe me, and if a new platform/technology/design does a better job then fine, but I can't see any advantage in DAB at all.

Re: vintage vs. modern B&O products

EOB — Mon, 26 Nov 2007 19:31:23 GMT

I fell in love with my beomaster 2402 25 years ago and it still pleases me in its design and sound. Its almost like an old tree if it only could tell stories ;) I also prefer the vinyl sound over cd on a lot of recordings.