General Forum

Re: Masterlink vs. cat7

techtrino — Fri, 25 Nov 2011 07:16:25 GMT

Thank you guy, now I have all the data I need :)

Regarding brands of cable, then yes even chinese cable will most likely do the trick, however the specs on e.g. lapp is much higher and with the high cobber prices I dont trust the chinese to make cables up to standart, so I would strongly advise on buying German made cables.

Re: Masterlink vs. cat7

elephant — Thu, 24 Nov 2011 14:21:30 GMT

tournedos:
It'd work over barbed wire if the environment is kind enough...

B&O is very security conscious ... they give us PIN codes for our HiFi and the ability to tie it down with brabed wire so it can't be removed

Re: Masterlink vs. cat7

tournedos — Thu, 24 Nov 2011 12:54:55 GMT

For Masterlink, the most important thing is that both sides of a balanced signal are carried in the same twisted pair in the cable. If the pairs are split, I'm sure they cabling will pick up all kinds of interference from anything that happens to be nearby (in addition to internal crosstalk). In the chart misteUS posted above, this is done correctly.

The missing signal is Masterlink sense, and leaving it out apparently is no problem to most devices - but I'm sure there are some that won't like it left out.

Masterlink is just baseband audio and very slow (in comparison to any Ethernet standard) data. It'd work over barbed wire if the environment is kind enough...

Re: Masterlink vs. cat7

Heribert — Thu, 24 Nov 2011 12:36:08 GMT

Hi,

The cables I have within the walls are both - shielded and not shielded. Depending of the timing when installed. For ML sound distribution tis is more than ok.

Heribert

Re: Masterlink vs. cat7

misteUS — Thu, 24 Nov 2011 06:25:04 GMT

I have no idea about the German cables you mention but for the purpose at hands: Masterlink or even the future Beonet, whatever it pans out to be, Cat7 cables from a multitude of brands, including several Made in China would be more than adequate... If it can carry Gigabit Ethernet , it can carry Masterlink

I somewhat cringe at the idea of using 8-pin conductors (improperly called RJ-45) as Powerlink connector but it seems to work for some ... Could be my next project :)

While the original ML cable consisted of 9 conductors, one of these, the White-Bllue one was not used. Besides Beo recommends now Cat7 in lieu of the (expensive and difficult to find) ML cable

Here is a scheme I used to good results. I got it from a discussion in this very forum, I forgot the thread...

PAIR	Masterlink	Cat 6/7 STP	Pin on RJ-45
1	White/Orange	White/Orange	1
2	Orange	Orange	2
3	White/Green	White/Green	3
4	Blue	Blue	4
5	Pink	White/Blue	5
6	Green	Green	6
7	White/Red	White/Brown	7
8	Red	Brown	8
	All Shields to	Shield/Screen of STP	Shield on RJ

I have used Cat 6 shielded cable to great results. I have a next project and for that I may use stranded CAT7 cable. much easier to work with solid-conductor Cat7 which is very, very stiff.

It would pay to implement a structured cabling system in a home. Structured cabling was never meant to only carry Ethernet. a real Structured Cabling system is a passive system meant to carry anything really, Analog and Digital signals of all sorts: Audio , Video, Controls, etc. Cat7 cable is particularly well suited to carry simultaneously various type of signals. It simply makes sense to use it with Mastelink and to be ready for the future Beonet.

Re: Masterlink vs. cat7

techtrino — Thu, 24 Nov 2011 04:31:59 GMT

Cat5 and cat6 are essentially the same, cat6 is just higher specd, cat6e has shielding but cat7 has each pair individually shielded and is made to even higher spec. Cat7 is the way to go today, but most cat7 cables are thicker, around 8 mm, and much more stiff than their unshielded brothering.

The shield is important, no shield means that the likelihood of interference and hum is much higher, especially with cable runs over 10m.

So I would say buy cat7 and buy Draker or Lapp cable as they are german made high quality cables. They may cost double as the chinese, but are still only a euro or so per meter, so...

Also note if you plan on putting normal connectors on the cable, you need to buy shielded connectors and connectors that can fit the thick cable. Lapp makes some (fm45), but they are hard to find.

Does anyone have a wiring diagram for how to connect masterlink to cat7?

Re: Masterlink vs. cat7

tournedos — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:51:48 GMT

Just delivering Masterlink doesn't need that much. In many cases, I'm sure even CAT5 will do.

But, it has been stressed that the future Beonet - whatever that will be - requires CAT7. I don't think shielding is the decisive factor, it is the general characteristics of the cabling.

So if you want to be future proof and are doing a new install / complete renovation, it would be madness to try and save a little money by installing anything else than CAT7. The price difference is practically zero after you count all the work in.

But if the cables are inside the walls already, I would just try to use it. Replacing anything "just in case" would be equally silly.

Re: Masterlink vs. cat7

Matthew — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 19:30:04 GMT

Thanks Kallasr,

Most of the discussions I had read here on the forum involved shielded cables only. I would have thought that for domestic applications, shielding was not a necessity. And so was looking to see if others had successfully used unshielded cables for ML distribution.

cheers,

Matthew

Re: Masterlink vs. cat7

kallasr — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 18:10:28 GMT

Search the Forum- it does not matter.

Re: Masterlink vs. cat7

Matthew — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 17:14:28 GMT

Hello Heribert,

Are your CAT5e and CAT6 cables used in your masterlink network shielded or un-shielded?

Regards,

Matthew

Re: Masterlink vs. cat7

Chris — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 17:14:00 GMT

Can you not use wireless?

Re: Masterlink vs. cat7

techtrino — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 12:43:51 GMT

Well this sounds good, only thing, is there a wiering diagram? because there are only 8 wires in cat7 but 9 in masterlink, so what is not connected?

Re: Masterlink vs. cat7

kallasr — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 03:09:47 GMT

They can also be ordered using the following part numbers:

It is important to understand that you will need some sort of passive hub e.g. a Masterlink Distributor (<100 Euro on ebay...) or - if only one connection needs to be made - you can patch directly on the patch panel.

Used this with Masterlink with success, Powerlink had some humming noise that I could not get rid off (probably fault on my side, I don't blame the cable).

Ralf

Re: Masterlink vs. cat7

Heribert — Wed, 23 Nov 2011 02:31:42 GMT

I have a ML-Network throughout my house all run on a passive (NO switches, hubs,...) CAT5e, CAT6 and CAT7 wires. The mix comes from different timings...

From the RJ45 wall socket I use RJ45 to Masterlink cables, that my B&O dealer made for me. These cables are inexpensive and much more flexible than working with ML Junction boxes.

Re: Masterlink vs. cat7

misteUS — Tue, 22 Nov 2011 20:48:13 GMT

I have used CAT7 and also CAT6 in lieu and place of ML Cable... The results were the same. The runs were relatively short, none longer than 7 meters. I sincerely think that ScTP (Screened Twisted Pair) would work in all but the most severely RF polluted environments... To be on the safe side use CAT7, relatively inexpensive and frankly was overkill for the application... Even if one would consider Video and/or multiple Digital streams...

CAT 5 carries Hi Def video quite easily, let alone for CAT 7 .. This is as future-proof as it gets .. :)

lesly