General Forum

Re: New to B&O: Rear Channel Speaker Advise Needed

geoff martin — Mon, 17 Oct 2011 05:20:08 GMT

Hi.

Okay - I'm back. It took a LOT of digging and even a little reverse-engineering, but I'm back... I have good news and bad news:

The bad news first... If you have a DSM-based BeoVision 7, there is no quick-and-easy way to ensure that your speaker levels are calibrated correctly using an SPL meter. The only way to do it is to use an external noise source (like a DVD with signals for speaker calibration on it) and to wiggle your way through the menus. You can calibrate your main speakers easily using the method I described above. The problem is calibrating the subwoofer to match...

The good news? If your system is comprised entirely of BeoLab loudspeakers, the, in a worst-case, you're within a couple of dB of being calibrated anyway. For example, if you live in an anechoic chamber, and you have, say, BeoLab 6000's and a BeoLab 2, then you don't need to do anything. Their input-to-output sensitivity have been matched to ensure that they're calibrated relative to each other.

I've searched for a calibration DVD to suggest, but most of the ones I've found are either unreliable, or overpriced due to the fact that they're really for calibrating the video , and audio is just along for the ride.

If anyone out there is using a calibration DVD and has had good success with it, I'd be curious to know about it. In the meantime, I'm looking into what it would take to create calibration tones that could be made available online for people who want to burn their own DVD's for system setup and calibration... This won't happen soon though, unfortunately....

I'm sorry this isn't the answer you were probably hoping for...

Cheers

-geoff

Re: New to B&O: Rear Channel Speaker Advise Needed

geoff martin — Wed, 28 Sep 2011 06:24:06 GMT

Please don't give up on me... I'm still working on it...

My apologies once again for the delay! It's turning out to be a more difficult issue to resolve than I had anticipated... My problem is that I'm on the wrong end of the development process. I'm working with the next-generation systems, not the current- or past-generation ones... So, to be honest, I have to rely on my colleagues to help find out how our current and older gear works...

The main speakers are easy to calibrate. Make them all the same level using your spl meter at the listening position using adjustment with SPEAKER LEVEL in your menus. I normally use A weighting if the speakers are different (i.e. BL3's and BL9's) to reduce the influence of low-frequency differences in the speakers. This also helps to reduce the influence of background noise in your measurements. It's also good practice to point the microphone straight up so that you aren't favouring one (or more) speakers with a directional behaviour of the mic. This is what I do in the listening room when I'm working...

However, when I'm "relaxing" (i.e. setting up a system to watch a movie instead of to tune the system or to listen to multichannel music) I typically drop the level of the surrounds about 2-3 dB and the L and R front speakers by 1-2 dB. This is entirely a personal preference issue, and has nothing to do with the "correct" way to do things. It's also not unusual to me to delay the front L and R speakers by 1-2 milliseconds and the surrounds and backs by something like 5-10 milliseconds. I also, in restaurants, typically order steak medium-rare, I add ground pepper to fettuccini alfredo, I rarely add salt to anything, and I like extra wasabi with my sushi... All of this paragraph should be read as a personal preference - not a recommendation...

The problem with the real answer to your question is the subwoofer calibration... To be perfectly honest, I am having a hard time finding out precisely how you should go about this without using an external calibration DVD... My last resort is to actually set up a system in my listening room and do it myself - but I'm calling in some help from from dealer/installer contacts today to ask if they can help out in obtainin this info.

So, worst-case, I'll have an answer next Thursday (that's when I've booked my calendar for measurements...) Best case: I'll have a decent answer before that.

Cheers

-geoff

Re: New to B&O: Rear Channel Speaker Advise Needed

geoff martin — Tue, 20 Sep 2011 01:21:28 GMT

Oops.... Sorry.... Summer vacation has a way of erasing my memory (guess that's what it's for...). Thanks for the poke... I'll put it on my list of things-to-do-this-week...

More info soon!

cheers

-geoff

Re: New to B&O: Rear Channel Speaker Advise Needed

raveny — Mon, 19 Sep 2011 13:20:09 GMT

did I miss the explanation in an other thread? Would be great to optimize the sound settings...

Re: New to B&O: Rear Channel Speaker Advise Needed

MightyQuinn — Thu, 23 Jun 2011 20:11:07 GMT

geoff martin:

It's pretty normal to see a BL9 / BL3 combo in the listening rooms here in Struer (with various Centre Channel options). This works fine for movies where the surround information is usually fairly uncorrelated with the front channels.

However, if you're doing multichannel music, then you'll need to match your BL9's with more BL9's in the rear... Unfortunately, you'll have to build your own wallbracket for that configuration, though... ;-)

One word of caution: in order to ensure that your configuration is behaving, make sure that you start with correct Speaker Distances and Speaker Levels on the BS3. For day-to-day use, I have a cheap SPL meter that I bought online for this, but the nearly-free app on my phone works almost as well. Use that as a starting point, but don't treat it as religion - if you prefer more (or less) from your surround channels, add spices to taste!

Cheers

-geoff

Hi Geoff

Thanks for the input. While I wish that I had the floorspace (not to mention the pocketbook) for two pairs of BL9s, that is not currently an option.

I am hoping that the B&O team that will be installing the system will be teaching me how they balance the speaker output. I will definitely mention the SPL meter during the setup process.

Cheers,

TMQ

Re: New to B&O: Rear Channel Speaker Advise Needed

MightyQuinn — Thu, 23 Jun 2011 19:58:18 GMT

11048437:

hi there,

was in the same doubt as you.

My initial setup: Beolab 5 front, Beolab 7.1 center and Beolab 4000 as surround.

New configuration: Beolab 5 front, Beolab 7.4 center and Beolab 3 as surround.

There is a huge( and i mean huge) difference between the 2 config. New setup is more detailed, center speaker makes a huge improvement in speech compared with 7.1 and the BL3 surround, well, also makes a huge diference!!!

.....

When you changed your system, did you perform the "control experiment", and determine which of the new components made such a big difference? I am curious because I currently have the option of choosing the Beolab 4000s versus the Beolab 3s in my system, and I really appreciate your experience.

So I should mention that I have ordered the Beolab 4000s, based in part from what I have read on this forum (in this thread and in others), and in part from the advise from my local dealer. Of course, I am sure that my dealer would be perfectly happy to change the order and put in a set of Beolab 3s instead.

Re: New to B&O: Rear Channel Speaker Advise Needed

MightyQuinn — Thu, 23 Jun 2011 19:51:38 GMT

macjonny1:

As far as the sound metering, it is sad that B&O's BS3 doesn't have something like Audessey to help set the speaker levels and distance/etc automatically.

Sorry for being a neophyte, but can you explain what Audessey is?

With respect to the BS3, I was under the impression (perhaps mistakenly) that this was the top of the B&O line of...well...I don't actually know what to call it. It's not a receiver and it's not an integrated amp. What bucket do you put the BS3 unit into?

Uggh...I feel like such an old fart, I don't even know what to call the piece of equipment that I just dumped a whole lot of $$$ into. The B&O website calls it a "stage manager". What do you folks call it?

Did I mention that this B&O system is the first set of audio equipment that I have purchased since I bought a used Rotel pre-amp, Adcom amp and Paradigm MK3 speakers 15 years ago in grad school? (I am still using those pieces in my main setup actually).

Re: New to B&O: Rear Channel Speaker Advise Needed

11048437 — Thu, 23 Jun 2011 16:09:47 GMT

hi there,

was in the same doubt as you.

My initial setup: Beolab 5 front, Beolab 7.1 center and Beolab 4000 as surround.

New configuration: Beolab 5 front, Beolab 7.4 center and Beolab 3 as surround.

There is a huge( and i mean huge) difference between the 2 config. New setup is more detailed, center speaker makes a huge improvement in speech compared with 7.1 and the BL3 surround, well, also makes a huge diference!!!

.....

Re: New to B&O: Rear Channel Speaker Advise Needed

macjonny1 — Thu, 23 Jun 2011 10:55:13 GMT

There is no real difference between the BL 7-2 and 7-6, other than size. The 7-6 is huge and will look funny on a TV smaller than 60" I would think.

As far as the sound metering, it is sad that B&O's BS3 doesn't have something like Audessey to help set the speaker levels and distance/etc automatically.

Re: New to B&O: Rear Channel Speaker Advise Needed

quader — Thu, 23 Jun 2011 10:15:50 GMT

I have BL 8000 as rears in my TV setup and 4000 in my projecter setup both i am happy with as sound is really good, when it comes to music i tend to use speaker 4 mode .

I have a separate centre speaker to the 7.4 for the projector setup as advised by the B&O dealer but find myself using the speaker 4 setup for this aswell.

I would be interested to hear from Geoff on this topic

Re: New to B&O: Rear Channel Speaker Advise Needed

beolion — Tue, 21 Jun 2011 13:13:30 GMT

MightyQuinn:

Thanks beolion. My intention would be to only use the center and rear channels for watching movies. For listening to music, I think that I will only be using the BL9s. I only say this because this will be the first surround system I have owned, and I am used to listening to music on two-channel stereo.

Do you guys listen to music in surround, or just two-channel stereo?

I do also have a BL2, and for music I only use the BL9's (including the BL2). I just watched U2 360 Blueray concert in surround, that was very "involving", sometimes I use 2x Stereo (speaker 4), but as Geoff say, this would work best with similar front and rear speakers.

My dealer has placed a request at B&O so that it should be possible to disable the sub in speaker 2 setup, the sub is disabled in speaker 1. I prefer to listen to music from the BL9 without BL2. We have not got any feedback from B&O if they will implement this feature.

Re: New to B&O: Rear Channel Speaker Advise Needed

MightyQuinn — Tue, 21 Jun 2011 11:57:25 GMT

beolion:

The only noticable difference I could hear from the 7-6 compared to 7-2 was the stereo part, since the speaker is wider. It is easier to notice the stereo.

I have the 7-2 to my 7-55 (I re-used them from my old 7-40), and I do like that the speaker is smaller than the TV. I think that the 7-6 is too big for our living room as we also have the BL9's as front speakers also.

Thanks beolion. My intention would be to only use the center and rear channels for watching movies. For listening to music, I think that I will only be using the BL9s. I only say this because this will be the first surround system I have owned, and I am used to listening to music on two-channel stereo.

Do you guys listen to music in surround, or just two-channel stereo?

Re: New to B&O: Rear Channel Speaker Advise Needed

beolion — Tue, 21 Jun 2011 11:21:16 GMT

MightyQuinn:

If you don't mind I would like to ask a follow up questions with regards to the 7.6 center speaker. My dealer really could not give me any pros and cons of the 7.6 versus the 7.2. Both are the same price and I have room for both. Any reason not to go with the 7.6?

The only noticable difference I could hear from the 7-6 compared to 7-2 was the stereo part, since the speaker is wider. It is easier to notice the stereo.

I have the 7-2 to my 7-55 (I re-used them from my old 7-40), and I do like that the speaker is smaller than the TV. I think that the 7-6 is too big for our living room as we also have the BL9's as front speakers also.

Re: New to B&O: Rear Channel Speaker Advise Needed

DrDimitris — Tue, 21 Jun 2011 11:00:40 GMT

geoff martin:

DrDimitris:

Geoff. could you please be more detailed on how to use the SPL meter app. I mean distance from speaker that someone should measure and what could be expected to be measured and be considered as ideal. Thanks in advance

Hi Dimitris,

Give me a couple of days and I'll write up a decent explanation of this - I assume you're specifically thinking of a BeoSystem 3 with a multichannel loudspeaker configuration... Correct?

Cheers

-geoff

Yes....and no. . I have a BV7-32, with surround module (not BS3 based). I have set the distances and levels on the speaker menu, but i want to check it also with my phone SPL meter to see if i am correct on my sweet spot. My setup is BL7.1 as center, BL2, BL8000's fronts and BL4000's rears which have been also specified on my Beovision's speaker configuration. Thank you again.

Re: New to B&O: Rear Channel Speaker Advise Needed

beolion — Tue, 21 Jun 2011 10:44:06 GMT

geoff martin:

DrDimitris:

Geoff. could you please be more detailed on how to use the SPL meter app. I mean distance from speaker that someone should measure and what could be expected to be measured and be considered as ideal. Thanks in advance

Hi Dimitris,

Give me a couple of days and I'll write up a decent explanation of this - I assume you're specifically thinking of a BeoSystem 3 with a multichannel loudspeaker configuration... Correct?

Cheers

-geoff

Hi Geoff

Looking forward for your explanation, I actually just downloaded an SPL App for my Android, but would also like to know how to do it correct

Thanks.