General Forum

Re: A trip to the Tonmeister - Struer Trip

geoff martin — Mon, 20 Jun 2011 14:28:35 GMT

beolion:

Sometimes I think it could be great if B&O more in detail could explain how they have tried to set up the speakers in relation to the sound, i.e. what idea is behind the sound of i.e. BL5 or BL9, and how would people be able to notice that. Some of my music sounds very bad on my BL9, whereas some other music sounds fantastic (currently I love Agnes Obel latest CD).

That could also (maybe) explain why some people don't think that the BL9 or even the BL5 has a good sound (see other posts lately).

Hi,

Of course, the answer to the first question is... complicated. It depends on the loudspeaker in question - the goal for a BeoSound 8 was different from that for the BeoLab 5. Each product has its own set of issues to balance, and, consequently, its own particular set of solutions that come together to make up the final sound. (I'm not trying to be intentionally obscure - honest! It really is complicated...)

However, one way to answer both questions is with a hypothetical example. Let's say that you have a loudspeaker that is perfect except for one flaw - and let's say that this flaw is a big, narrow bump in the response at 220 Hz. If you listen to Jennifer Warnes singing "Bird on a Wire" from Famous Blue Raincoat it will sound terrible, because that's in the key of A Major, and A = 220 Hz and she sings that note often, so the problem is highlighted. However, if you listen to Leonard Cohen singing "Tower of Song" from Live in London, you won't hear a problem, not only because he sings it in the key of D-flat and there aren't many A's in D-flat major, but 220 Hz is a little out of Leonard's range these days...

This is an overly-simplistic example, but it touches on the broader answer. If the problem(s) in a given loudspeaker+room+placement combination are in frequency ranges that aren't excited by the music you're listening to, then there are no problems to complain about. If the music hits the problem area(s) on the nose, then bad things happen and disappointment ensues...

This is why part of my job is to listen to an eclectic mix of music (and movies / television shows) all the time in an attempt to cover as many bases as I can. A good recording of the Firebird Suite will push a big woofer harder than Smells Like Teen Spirit can. Back in Black shows off some tweeter problems faster than string quartet recordings do. When we're working on a new product, it will change hands through many people in the company so that each of us can play our own music collection on the speaker to see if we can find problems that have not yet been spotted.

cheers

-geoff

Re: A trip to the Tonmeister - Struer Trip

Peter — Mon, 20 Jun 2011 12:30:47 GMT

geoff martin:

Peter :

His reputation was well trailed by Lee who described him as a chap who could make the composition of a billiard ball sound exciting.

Hi Peter,

Thanks for the glowing report! (My Mom was very proud when she read it. ;-) ) I enjoyed our chat as well!

Now, however, I feel compelled to learn about the composition of billiard balls, just in case... I never knew (until just now...) that some of the early replacements for ivory included wood (!) and that, in the late 1800's, the celluloid ones were rumoured to be exploding. Somewhat Monty Python-esque - but exciting, nonetheless!

Cheers

-geoff

See - I told you!

Quite right about the celluloid - the film archives have had the same issue, and my other odd habit of collecting pens runs into the same problem!

Just to say that Lee and I had a splendid time and all of you were so kind to us. I think it shows B&O in a very good light that it seems to care about its customers and is not just a faceless brand. I look forward to our next meeting though it would seem that you will get to meet a large crowd of Beoworlders relatively soon. I am sure they will be just as impressed with your charm and knowledge.

Re: A trip to the Tonmeister - Struer Trip

geoff martin — Mon, 20 Jun 2011 11:52:27 GMT

Stephan:

Is it decadent to use Beolab 5's as rear surround speakers

Hi Stephan,

Having demo'ed out a 7.0 system with 7 BL5's back when we did the press release of the BeoSystem 3 in Struer some years ago, I would say that the answer is "no". :-)

cheers

-geoff

Re: A trip to the Tonmeister - Struer Trip

geoff martin — Mon, 20 Jun 2011 11:35:14 GMT

Peter :

His reputation was well trailed by Lee who described him as a chap who could make the composition of a billiard ball sound exciting.

Hi Peter,

Thanks for the glowing report! (My Mom was very proud when she read it. ;-) ) I enjoyed our chat as well!

Now, however, I feel compelled to learn about the composition of billiard balls, just in case... I never knew (until just now...) that some of the early replacements for ivory included wood (!) and that, in the late 1800's, the celluloid ones were rumoured to be exploding. Somewhat Monty Python-esque - but exciting, nonetheless!

Cheers

-geoff

Re: A trip to the Tonmeister - Struer Trip

Peter — Mon, 20 Jun 2011 10:31:27 GMT

You are right - a really friendly and amusing chap - having to deal with Lee and myself - certainly I have cloth ears and I think Lee would agree that his didn't seem a lot more discerning with some of our observations!

We had a thoroughly splendid trip. Although it was not planned that way, the date of our trip actually co-incided with my birthday, which I had intended to keep quiet. Lee unfortunately found out and told everyone (very embarrassing especially when every plasma screen in Struer appeared to have Happy Birthday Peter written on it!) This resulted in my being spoiled something rotten, given a present by the CEO and royally wined and dined every night. We were taken aback by the warmth of the greeting given to us - Jette and Tommy were wonderful hosts all through our stay and we were allowed access to places that we never thought possible - though our lips are sealed about some things as we signed an agreement which basically allows B&O to take our first born as tribute should we slip up!!

Geoff Martin was trailed as one of the highlights and indeed he is a truly fascinating chap - in the mythical 'who would you most like to have at a dinner party list', he would be right there!

In addition to the kindness shown by B&O, we also got to meet Dillen and Dullen! A truly wonderful couple who are even more firm friends having met them. Frede and Kirsten also very kindly invited us to their beautiful home where Frede cooked for us - he is a wonderful chef - and meeting Ronny at the museum was, as usual, a wonderful treat.

Lee was a perfect travelling companion - generous to a fault - and witty and knowledgeable at all times. His charisma charmed all he met and made up for the boring side kick he had brought along. This was the most enjoyable week I have had for many a year and has only strengthened my resolve to go back to Denmark sooner with my family.

Re: A trip to the Tonmeister - Struer Trip

AdamS — Mon, 20 Jun 2011 09:55:28 GMT

Glad to see Geoff is still weaving his magic!

I met him when I visited Struer in 2007 with Hi-Fi World and frankly, I could have sat and chatted to him all day. Truly a friendly, intelligent and approachable individual.

Re: A trip to the Tonmeister - Struer Trip

spthomas — Sun, 19 Jun 2011 20:52:20 GMT

bsantini:
Brass is good!

Organ is good!

If you play a descending scale on the bottom octave on the pedals of an organ it almost sounds like a crescendo in volume to the modern ear because we're so used to the fall-off you get below 50Hz on nearly all speaker systems. Yet the scaling and volume of pipe sizes that were determined to sound right by people centuries ago did this without electronic limitations. It's not that there weren't economic considerations in the past- a single low 16' C pipe in an organ may have as many pounds of tin/lead metal as whole other stops, so it isn't new that there's simply a lot of work that has to go into the bottom octave. I say this as a former organ pipe maker. And it's true, those big pipes move a lot of air! And I think Geoff Martin knows this, being an organist himself...

Re: A trip to the Tonmeister - Struer Trip

folkdeejay — Sat, 18 Jun 2011 10:17:50 GMT

Or buy somebrand new Bellowhead :

Produced by John Leckie, new album is superb.

Re: A trip to the Tonmeister - Struer Trip

burantek — Sat, 18 Jun 2011 09:19:38 GMT

Time to dust off the Herb Alpert!

Re: A trip to the Tonmeister - Struer Trip

beocool — Sat, 18 Jun 2011 04:13:19 GMT

Good stuff.

Re: A trip to the Tonmeister - Struer Trip

bsantini — Fri, 17 Jun 2011 18:46:25 GMT

Brass is good!

Organ is good!

YUM!

Cant wait! I just finished recapping and midding by Penta IIs so they should how me a while.

Re: A trip to the Tonmeister - Struer Trip

Peter — Fri, 17 Jun 2011 17:06:51 GMT

He finished the demo by playing 'Also sprach Zarathustra' and these speakers go down to less than 15Hz. The sensation was stunning - if not altogether pleasurable! Although not confirmed as being used, he did talk about some very long throw bass units with some affection! The speakers were at the first stage of equalisation so he still had some magic to weave. They were particularly effective at brass in my opinion.

Re: A trip to the Tonmeister - Struer Trip

bsantini — Fri, 17 Jun 2011 16:38:01 GMT

"...moving around alot of air..."

Sounds like organ musoc to me!

Re: A trip to the Tonmeister - Struer Trip

9 LEE — Fri, 17 Jun 2011 10:49:43 GMT

Stephan:

P.S. I BET that PeterPan will do a mockup picture of the speakers... The "Beolab 5²" / or "Beolab 5 encore" that has the size and looks of a x-mas tree, 6 discs per speaker with the largest minmum 100 cm in diameter and a total output of 25000 Watt ... Just to match the recent TV sets ;-)

I conjured up a picture of the Eiffel Tower with a downward facing bass driver in the bottom just then..

Lee

PS - I can confirm (as i was there) that the 'acoustic curtains' were waving around like there was a window open on a breezy day.. That's a lot of air being moved.

Re: A trip to the Tonmeister - Struer Trip

Stephan — Fri, 17 Jun 2011 10:42:07 GMT

OMG!

Secret speakers .... huge amount of moved air .... hidden behind curtains .... no compromise speakers ...

I know now how Justin Bieber fans feel ....

Should I start and save some money ???

How do I explain my wife that the 5's were not the last speakers I'd ever buy in my life??

Is it decadent to use Beolab 5's as rear sourround speakers if the new ones rock more?

( Just a small snapshot of my thoughts while reading this...)

Stephan

P.S. I BET that PeterPan will do a mockup picture of the speakers... The "Beolab 5²" / or "Beolab 5 encore" that has the size and looks of a x-mas tree, 6 discs per speaker with the largest minmum 100 cm in diameter and a total output of 25000 Watt ... Just to match the recent TV sets ;-)