General Forum

Re: Austerity measures!!

ed7 — Sun, 05 Dec 2010 15:24:03 GMT

vikinger:

I bought B&O shares after their value had crashed, they'd had a rights issue, and dividends were suspended. The original shareholders who were used to 25% dividends year on year must have been devastated: no dividends and the share price down 90%! As for my investment: it's down a further 24%.

(I've always had a few shares in makers of products I like: thankfully the Apple share price moved up faster than B&O moved down!)

Graham

EDIT

Do you lose more by buying B&O shares or by buying B&O products

Sell,sell,SELL

Re: Austerity measures!!

355f — Thu, 02 Dec 2010 10:34:06 GMT

B&O i not in a unique situation. Look at Lambo and Ferrari and what they are doing to new pricing- its going skyward- less individuals that will buy the product so the price rises to allow for reduced sales.

In that market one can just about get away with it; problem with high tech is the onward movement of technology keeps hitting the price- so B&O is left with avery expensive range of products with, in reality so few people that will pay 12-15K for a TV set

Re: Austerity measures!!

burantek — Thu, 02 Dec 2010 10:14:40 GMT

TripEnglish:

You lay out the cash, open the store, hire the staff, and start building the brand and see if you don't say "we."

Good point!

The owners of your store can say "we" then.

Re: Austerity measures!!

TripEnglish — Thu, 02 Dec 2010 10:01:42 GMT

You lay out the cash, open the store, hire the staff, and start building the brand and see if you don't say "we."

Re: Austerity measures!!

9 LEE — Thu, 02 Dec 2010 10:01:23 GMT

Synergy:

Wake up dude,you're not on the BnO payroll,you just sell the stuff

Which means if he doesn't sell the stuff, he doesn't get paid.. There's a technicality there somewhere!

Synergy:

Although I must confess to being a B&O reseller back in the good old 80s.

Ah yes - the good old days of the 80's - with the BeoCenter 2200, the mighty X25's, the ME6000...

Don't worry - i'm not Trip's 'NBF' now..

Lee

Re: Austerity measures!!

Synergy — Thu, 02 Dec 2010 09:40:52 GMT

Following on from Lee's comments,the thing that cracks me up/annoys the hell outta me is TE constantly saying "We".."Us"..."Our" when talking about the brand.

Wake up dude,you're not on the BnO payroll,you just sell the stuff

Must say that I always enjoy listening to dealers attempting to overcome my objections when pointing out the elements of a products design that doesn't sit well with me.

Brand loyalty often bordering on brainwashed!

Bless 'em.

Although I must confess to being a B&O reseller back in the good old 80s.

Re: Austerity measures!!

TripEnglish — Wed, 01 Dec 2010 22:16:44 GMT

BeoFab:

Must be the Holidays spirit. Finally this thread turned out nicer and full of optimism!!!

We've been arguing with each other for years now! We'll still do it when we're old(er) and grey(er). If it wasn't fun at some level we'd just log off!

Re: Austerity measures!!

BeoFab — Wed, 01 Dec 2010 22:08:57 GMT

Must be the Holidays spirit. Finally this thread turned out nicer and full of optimism!!!

Re: Austerity measures!!

9 LEE — Wed, 01 Dec 2010 19:05:38 GMT

Although Trip can often inadvertently press the wrong buttons of some people, i do admire his resolute defence of the brand. (sorry, defence comes up with red lines underneath as i type this - so for the sake of international relations... 'defense')

I would imagine his total enthusiasm serves him incredibly well with customers. This is sales at it's leanest - you buy the person you are dealing with almost as much as the product. I bet he does very, very well - and i take my hat off to him.

Remember though that we (as enthusiasts) see crap for what it is - and say it. When you're selling something, you state its strengths and don't focus on its weaknesses - that's sales. I do feel Trip has swallowed his own pitch sometimes, but that's just my opinion (which is worth little at todays exchange rate.. LOL) - but the main thing i'd like to state is that despite constant bombardment, he comes back every time - wearing fresh body armour and flying the flag of Struer.

Fair play Trip.

Give it 3 years and we'll all be true 'believers' again i'm sure. Please don't for one moment think B&O are blissfully unaware of how they screwed up. They know. Kalle Hvidt Nielsen has always had the same vision, which hasn't changed since the moment he sat at Torben's desk as the world collapsed around and within the company. I have confidence in him as a CEO, but there's a lot of dead wood still needs clearing from the forest floor before the new trees grow. Those people, I'm sure, know who they are - wether they are sales assistants or 'big suits'...

I feel B&O have rolled out some turkeys as 'gap fillers' to please the shareholders and press - but things will return to something like normal before long. Every company has ups and downs, it's natural. Recovering from a 'down' no matter how big or small, is the art of business.

Lee

Re: Austerity measures!!

Puncher — Wed, 01 Dec 2010 17:19:23 GMT

TripEnglish:

Puncher is dead on as to the convergence of, well, everything!

That's one of the reasons I'm heartened by our direction right now. B&O has set out a road map that not only brings the home together, but essentially makes the B&O experience omnipresent for our users. There's not a lot to say on this other than to think about areas that B&O has been deploying tech to and how that could make a unified experience for the user that quite literally could not be matched. As the new products arrive, starting with the Encore in a month or so, things will become much clearer.

Good - O!

Lets all hope they've finally got their act together with the right products!

Re: Austerity measures!!

TripEnglish — Wed, 01 Dec 2010 17:13:55 GMT

Puncher is dead on as to the convergence of, well, everything!

That's one of the reasons I'm heartened by our direction right now. B&O has set out a road map that not only brings the home together, but essentially makes the B&O experience omnipresent for our users. There's not a lot to say on this other than to think about areas that B&O has been deploying tech to and how that could make a unified experience for the user that quite literally could not be matched. As the new products arrive, starting with the Encore in a month or so, things will become much clearer.

Re: Austerity measures!!

ed7 — Wed, 01 Dec 2010 13:52:44 GMT

Puncher:

TripEnglish:

Lee,

While sales aren't soaring, they have been steadily improving. Most of the shops that focus on custom install are doing well in my market. It's the stores that have not evolved away from a retail model that are shutting their doors or preparing to. Hoping to sell a walk-in customer on a BeoVision 10 or a BeoSound 5 is a losing prospect. Has nothing to do with value at all, but how the affluent shop. They may buy clothes and jewelry in a showroom, but anything that winds up installed in their homes is specified at the design level by their architect or interior designer. It's partnerships with those proxies that has allowed shops to thrive. I'll keep on preaching this even after the economy rebounds. A return to strong retail sales will be a bonus at that point.

Puncher,

I hear what you're saying and you're not wrong. Under KHN, though, we've been quicker to market (astonishingly so considering how backwards development used to be) and more efficient (i.e. the development of universal AV boards across multiple platforms) in our engineering. Not only are the new products finally leading in sales, but they're refreshed quicker than at any time in recent history. If old management was still at he helm I'd be very worried that any traction we made was simply happenstance and could vanish as easily as it appeared, but there is a clear and focused direction under KHN that everyone felt in DK a few months ago. The current lineup is the best I've ever seen it and truly competitive. The products being launched in the coming years are dynamite. Moreover the narrative that animates the portfolio is the tightest I've seen it. I don't think there's any chance of us losing the ground we've been gaining this past fiscal year. I know I'm not going to let it happen in my corner of the market.

And again, I really hope the new products cut the mustard.

To your earlier post reeling off the B&O benefits of integration, one remote etc. We've all seen in recent times (and discussed ad infinitum) other music systems that integrate the 'net and your LAN both over Ethernet and wirelessly and can play anything anywhere within your house. We've seen the rise of iTouch and iPad remote Apps and also dedicated two way remotes such as the Sonos and this particular Samsung, both with unique features but neither pretty nor particularly "high quality". We've seen this Samsung (and others from Panasonic, Sony etc) that have HD Freeview tuners, can connect and play video and audio content over the 'net or LAN by Ethernet of wirelessly from central media hubs. They update from the 'net automatically without a man having to come out (and be payed for the pleasure). They also control other compatible ancilliary equipment.

The point of all the above wiffle is that the applications are converging, everyone will have domestic networked music and video with one remote, it's inconceivable that it won't happen. I'm not advocating any of the above examples as the ideal solution, my point is that it will come soon and, as like as not, from a mainstream supplier. B&O are heading there too with their own Ethernet solution but the days of Masterlink standing alone as a market & technological leader in AV integration are all but over.

Their speakers stand out as their unique offering, many of them offering fantastic performance while some are even class leaders - exactly as it should be

For the rest of the products (and the TV's in particular), given the above, I believe they may need to offer more in the future than smoked glass and mirror finished aluminium.

I hope folk don't take this as a critisism, they're just more reasons why I fear the ground is coming up to meet the B&O TV. If they manage to navigate around this and maintain their product line with new, class leading, innovative product then no one will be happier than I.

THANK YOU PUNCHER

Re: Austerity measures!!

Puncher — Wed, 01 Dec 2010 04:32:51 GMT

TripEnglish:

Lee,

While sales aren't soaring, they have been steadily improving. Most of the shops that focus on custom install are doing well in my market. It's the stores that have not evolved away from a retail model that are shutting their doors or preparing to. Hoping to sell a walk-in customer on a BeoVision 10 or a BeoSound 5 is a losing prospect. Has nothing to do with value at all, but how the affluent shop. They may buy clothes and jewelry in a showroom, but anything that winds up installed in their homes is specified at the design level by their architect or interior designer. It's partnerships with those proxies that has allowed shops to thrive. I'll keep on preaching this even after the economy rebounds. A return to strong retail sales will be a bonus at that point.

Puncher,

I hear what you're saying and you're not wrong. Under KHN, though, we've been quicker to market (astonishingly so considering how backwards development used to be) and more efficient (i.e. the development of universal AV boards across multiple platforms) in our engineering. Not only are the new products finally leading in sales, but they're refreshed quicker than at any time in recent history. If old management was still at he helm I'd be very worried that any traction we made was simply happenstance and could vanish as easily as it appeared, but there is a clear and focused direction under KHN that everyone felt in DK a few months ago. The current lineup is the best I've ever seen it and truly competitive. The products being launched in the coming years are dynamite. Moreover the narrative that animates the portfolio is the tightest I've seen it. I don't think there's any chance of us losing the ground we've been gaining this past fiscal year. I know I'm not going to let it happen in my corner of the market.

And again, I really hope the new products cut the mustard.

To your earlier post reeling off the B&O benefits of integration, one remote etc. We've all seen in recent times (and discussed ad infinitum) other music systems that integrate the 'net and your LAN both over Ethernet and wirelessly and can play anything anywhere within your house. We've seen the rise of iTouch and iPad remote Apps and also dedicated two way remotes such as the Sonos and this particular Samsung, both with unique features but neither pretty nor particularly "high quality". We've seen this Samsung (and others from Panasonic, Sony etc) that have HD Freeview tuners, can connect and play video and audio content over the 'net or LAN by Ethernet of wirelessly from central media hubs. They update from the 'net automatically without a man having to come out (and be payed for the pleasure). They also control other compatible ancilliary equipment.

The point of all the above wiffle is that the applications are converging, everyone will have domestic networked music and video with one remote, it's inconceivable that it won't happen. I'm not advocating any of the above examples as the ideal solution, my point is that it will come soon and, as like as not, from a mainstream supplier. B&O are heading there too with their own Ethernet solution but the days of Masterlink standing alone as a market & technological leader in AV integration are all but over.

Their speakers stand out as their unique offering, many of them offering fantastic performance while some are even class leaders - exactly as it should be

For the rest of the products (and the TV's in particular), given the above, I believe they may need to offer more in the future than smoked glass and mirror finished aluminium.

I hope folk don't take this as a critisism, they're just more reasons why I fear the ground is coming up to meet the B&O TV. If they manage to navigate around this and maintain their product line with new, class leading, innovative product then no one will be happier than I.

Re: Austerity measures!!

Chris — Wed, 01 Dec 2010 03:21:22 GMT

If the Austerity measures have an impact on the middle class like they are locally to me, and thus affect a significant percentage of sales, could B&O not try and make trading in more appealing. As an example I see plenty of Beovision 5's for sale but even though they look fantastic the lack of HD would put alot of people off buying one second hand.

If B&O stores could offer a better trade in price, which in turn helps these stores turn over more new gear, but in turn then get help to upgrade these sets to even a basic form of HD they would hopefully reinvigorate some of the market. When you look at other markets cars being one, many measures have been taken by the companies and countries alike. So called "scrapage" schemes have since helped dealers and some makers at least keep their heads above water. Some posters have mentioned they either can't afford to, or simply don't want to buy brand new, then making the trade in equipment more appealing or relevant would at least in part help. A Beovision 5 at a good price and HD fantastic. The person who wants a new 7 but won't get a good price for their 5 fantastic. B&O and its stores retailing more new equipment and making money out of the trade ins....

Re: Austerity measures!!

.......... — Tue, 30 Nov 2010 18:21:04 GMT

Play nicely everyone!

It's sad to hear Loewe made a loss. They are no B&O but are on the right track.

End of the day, I think B&O appeals to two, well three, types of people - The ultra rich, people who appreciate great design and functionality and the third being the ultra-rich who appreciate good design and functionality.

The reality is that we all know B&O is expensive to buy. I suppose manufacturing in Denmark (for the majority of products) and expensive aluminium processing etc contributes toward this among other things. I certainly can't afford any new B&O other than perhaps a phone or Beosound 8 or something. In fact I had to replace my Avant 32" with a Loewe Individual due to the expense of say a BV-7. (The Loewe is still nice since I have the Rosewood option sides and the aluminium 'paravent' stand - However, I miss being able to control my AV stuff/sky/macmini with a Beo4!)

I own some vintage products (I use my 80s Beosystem 6000 and 70s Beolit 707 daily), and some newer products as well.

If I could afford to buy new then I absolutely would. I don't know if this is snobbery but I have no interest in having any LG or Samsung products whatsoever! After having B&O for years there it would just irritate me too much!

I tend to buy second hand rather than new generally - I have some high quality mid century furniture, I've always opted for classic Porsches and Alfas over faster, modern Japanese cars and when it comes to AV, it's pretty much always been B&O.

The price is never something thats concerned me really, I just buy within my means (which is usually second hand!)

As for the technology argument... I don't get bogged down with tech specs etc, if the picture and sound is good and the product is a joy to use, as well as looking fantastic, then I am happy basically. As are B&O and their listening/viewing panel as I understand it.

I'm not really sure what my point is to be honest but it would be a shame for B&O to go under after 85 years. Hopefully there will be enough wealthy people buying to keep B&O afloat for the next few years until the economy has stabilised!

Meanwhile it'll be eBay and local ad scouring for me until I make CEO! Hahaha