General Forum

Re: Apple express, better sound with a DA converter, but which one?

Sigmund — Thu, 21 Oct 2010 03:17:02 GMT

First, go get a DAC! It makes a huge difference. In my case it comes in between Airport Express and BeoSound Ouverture. Since the external DAC is better than Ouverture's own, I find the CDs improve by playing them on the Mac instead of directly on the Ouverture.

Make sure it is easy to operate, though. I bought a Stello DA100 from April Design and would probably not have chosen the same again. The sound is superb. Problem is it gets hot, so hot that I don't want to have it turned on at all times. There is no standby power saving mode. Listening to music means turn on the Ouverture, turn on the DAC, turn on the Mac and choose music. That's awkward compared to B&O's easy and remote-controlled environment.

If you can find a DAC that is a little easier to control or that has a decent standby modus, that's a real advantage.

Sigmund

Re: Apple express, better sound with a DA converter, but which one?

Pauliander — Tue, 19 Oct 2010 15:29:52 GMT

Hello Bayerische,

Two options you should definitely also consider are:

1/ Apogee Mini-DAC: price/quality very good, probably nicer sound than the Benchmark

2/ Bel Canto DAC: by far the best. The DAC 3 is a reference high end DAC but expensive. But I know that Bel Canto recently also released a series of less expensive DAC's. I would strongly recommand you to check out these ones if to be used with BL 5...

Greetz, Paul

Re: Apple express, better sound with a DA converter, but which one?

bayerische — Tue, 19 Oct 2010 13:31:51 GMT

Alex:

Is this for use with your BeoLab 5s? If so I would definitely suggest the Benchmark DAC, which really is absolutely excellent.

Of course the most ideal route to go down would be digital out of the Airport straight into the BeoLab 5s, which will sound quite a bit better, but this isn't always possible with more complicated setups...

Yeah that would be the best option, but since my Beolab 5's can't sync, it's out of the question...

Re: Apple express, better sound with a DA converter, but which one?

tournedos — Tue, 19 Oct 2010 13:13:31 GMT

Puncher:

DoubleU:

Just a Cambridge for an Express? Hmm, not sure if I would do that...

I would trade the Express for the Squeezebox Touch. It has a very good DAC, a really good review from the critical Stereophile magazine:

http://www.stereophile.com/computeraudio//logitech_squeezebox_touch_network_music_player/

and has a lot more to offer then if you stick with the Airport Express.

Doesn't this review recommend using a DAC other than the one built into Squeezebox?

Dunno how the Squeezeboxes perform now that Logitech bean counters have had a go at them, but the original "Classics" designed by Slim Devices apparently were excellent. The review says that it was't quite at the level of high-end DACs - in the context of this thread, I still read that as "a lot better than Express"!

Just today I talked with a friend that raved about his Squeezeboxes. He has (among others) an older box, Duet I guess, which has a two-way remote with a display. At some point, a software update added the ability to listen to music with the remote (it has a headphone jack). Sounds like a developing platform...

Re: Apple express, better sound with a DA converter, but which one?

DoubleU — Tue, 19 Oct 2010 12:50:13 GMT

Puncher:

DoubleU:

Just a Cambridge for an Express? Hmm, not sure if I would do that...

I would trade the Express for the Squeezebox Touch. It has a very good DAC, a really good review from the critical Stereophile magazine:

http://www.stereophile.com/computeraudio//logitech_squeezebox_touch_network_music_player/

and has a lot more to offer then if you stick with the Airport Express.

Doesn't this review recommend using a DAC other than the one built into Squeezebox?

Not if your on a max 1000 euro budget.

As far I see it, the review stated that the Touch’s DAC performs well, comparable to listening to other DAC’s if your on a budget, but is no match for the very expensive DAC’s.

Using the Touch's analog outputs (and, therefore, DACs) was another story. The sound was clearly inferior to what I heard via the processing and D/A in the Classé and Meridian processors, but good enough that I could distinguish mashed low-bit-rate streaming from the better stuff, and even an HD download from a 16/44.1 download. It was just that the quality levels of all recordings were shifted down a notch or two by the Touch's analog outputs. The Touch's analog outputs were still eminently listenable, if not fully revealing of the source materials, and comparable to listening via the analog outputs of the Oppo BDP-83.

Re: Apple express, better sound with a DA converter, but which one?

beopaul — Tue, 19 Oct 2010 10:37:23 GMT

Airport Express digital out has been said to have sloppy timing, which may cause some otherwise good D/A converters to have synching issues. You'll need to watch out for this as you make your choice. I myself intend to get a converter, but haven't gotten around to it yet.

-- Paul

Re: Apple express, better sound with a DA converter, but which one?

Puncher — Tue, 19 Oct 2010 08:38:22 GMT

DoubleU:

Just a Cambridge for an Express? Hmm, not sure if I would do that...

I would trade the Express for the Squeezebox Touch. It has a very good DAC, a really good review from the critical Stereophile magazine:

http://www.stereophile.com/computeraudio//logitech_squeezebox_touch_network_music_player/

and has a lot more to offer then if you stick with the Airport Express.

Doesn't this review recommend using a DAC other than the one built into Squeezebox?

Re: Apple express, better sound with a DA converter, but which one?

Alex — Tue, 19 Oct 2010 05:51:38 GMT

Is this for use with your BeoLab 5s? If so I would definitely suggest the Benchmark DAC, which really is absolutely excellent.

Of course the most ideal route to go down would be digital out of the Airport straight into the BeoLab 5s, which will sound quite a bit better, but this isn't always possible with more complicated setups...

Re: Apple express, better sound with a DA converter, but which one?

majand — Tue, 19 Oct 2010 04:13:57 GMT

Terve Andreas,

I have an iMac, CA DAC, Ouverture and BL4000's, and for me the DAC was a big improvement. I have a wire from DAC to Ouverture though.

This is not a scientific opinion, i've not tested w/wo DAC, but to me, eg. YLE Areena stream through browser sounds pretty awesome.

Pekka

Re: Apple express, better sound with a DA converter, but which one?

DoubleU — Tue, 19 Oct 2010 03:53:36 GMT

Just a Cambridge for an Express? Hmm, not sure if I would do that...

I would trade the Express for the Squeezebox Touch. It has a very good DAC, a really good review from the critical Stereophile magazine:

http://www.stereophile.com/computeraudio//logitech_squeezebox_touch_network_music_player/

and has a lot more to offer then if you stick with the Airport Express.

Re: Apple express, better sound with a DA converter, but which one?

david coyne — Tue, 19 Oct 2010 03:37:48 GMT

Hi Andreas

I to have purchased a Cambridge Audio DAC. I did however hardwire my mac mini through beoport and to my beocentre 2.

The DAC made a significant difference, though i still can tell the difference listening to a high bit rate mp3 and CD. Certainly the DAC does make a difference though, even to NRADIO, which is almost bearable now!

Generally im still disappointed with the sound of some mp3's but i cant always get the tracks i want in CD format or lossless format- eg a DJ track that is only around in 320 mp3.

Good luck with your purchase, I'm it will make a big difference

Best Wishes

David

Re: Apple express, better sound with a DA converter, but which one?

bayerische — Tue, 19 Oct 2010 01:36:00 GMT

Alex:

Before adding a DAC, the first important steps are:

Completely disable the iTunes 'Sound Enhancer' (in the Playback tab in Preferences)

Completely disable the iTunes Equaliser

Try to avoid using the iTunes volume control - the AirPort Express is only 16bit so doesn't take kindly to having it's signal scaled for volume control

Try to avoid using the iTunes 'Sound Check' for anything other than shuffle mode and/or parties (where it's an absolute lifesaver!)

Then look at a DAC. On a budget, the Cambridge Audio DAC Magic is a great piece of kit...

Thanks Alex!

I'll make sure to check all those.

I'm on a max 1000 euro budget on this one, I was looking at different options at different price ends, at the top end the Benchmark DAC, and at the lower end the one you recommended, the DAC magic from CA.

I'm pretty familiar with the CA products, and I can have a further 30% off on them, so this might be the route for me? At roughly 200 euros after discount, it must be a steal?

Re: Apple express, better sound with a DA converter, but which one?

Alex — Mon, 18 Oct 2010 17:45:57 GMT

Before adding a DAC, the first important steps are:

Completely disable the iTunes 'Sound Enhancer' (in the Playback tab in Preferences)
Completely disable the iTunes Equaliser
Try to avoid using the iTunes volume control - the AirPort Express is only 16bit so doesn't take kindly to having it's signal scaled for volume control
Try to avoid using the iTunes 'Sound Check' for anything other than shuffle mode and/or parties (where it's an absolute lifesaver!)

Then look at a DAC. On a budget, the Cambridge Audio DAC Magic is a great piece of kit...

Apple express, better sound with a DA converter, but which one?

bayerische — Mon, 18 Oct 2010 14:04:07 GMT

Hi guys,

My trusty BS9000 is wonderful for CD's, but since buying music on iTunes is so darn easy, I would like the option of good sound trough the "air".

I have a Airport express that is connected via rca cables directly to the aux in on my BS9000, the sound is awful!

How to get a better sounding system? I don't want any cables from the computer to the BS9000, it should be wireless to the express/or like, and from then onto the BS9000.

Thanks

Andreas