General Forum

Re: SACD quality on BS5

Carolpa — Fri, 01 Oct 2010 08:29:01 GMT

Puncher:
wasn't aware the BM5 was capable of playing multi channel audio.

Hi,

because of limitation to SPDIF you won't actually get the multichannel signals. The output is a 96kHz/24bit 2ch PCM signal.

Re: SACD quality on BS5

Puncher — Fri, 01 Oct 2010 06:36:08 GMT

Carolpa:

LarsH:

Will BeoSound 5 support and play material stored in SACD quality?

I converted a 96kHz 24bit WAV (6ch) file to WMA Lossless (10128 kbps!!!!).

The BS5 can reproduce this file.

Only, until now, I could not add tag's to the file

I wasn't aware the BM5 was capable of playing multi channel audio.

Re: SACD quality on BS5

Carolpa — Fri, 01 Oct 2010 05:19:07 GMT

LarsH:

Will BeoSound 5 support and play material stored in SACD quality?

I converted a 96kHz 24bit WAV (6ch) file to WMA Lossless (10128 kbps!!!!).

The BS5 can reproduce this file.

Only, until now, I could not add tag's to the file

Re: SACD quality on BS5

Puncher — Fri, 01 Oct 2010 03:34:46 GMT

david coyne:

Hi All

Punchers last comment is exactly what i was hoping to hear...

Now another related question.... I presume then I could download a SACD quality file from a site like LINN and place them in itunes? I use itunes as my music player and bypass my mac sound card using a cambridge audio DAC. Is FLAC and WMA compatible with itunes, or does the conversion process downgrade the files anyway?

Apologies if these are stupid questions

Regards

David

Itunes does not play either FLAC or WMA directly but will import and convert WMA. As ALAC (apple lossless) also suports high bite rates and high sampling rates I would assume the conversion would remain high resloution although I've never tried it myself.

For FLAC you would have to do the conversion yourself - dbpoweramp will convert both FLAC and WMA to ALAC. I don't think iTunes supports surround audio only and so this would only likely work for stereo files.

I'd be interested to know how you get on.

Re: SACD quality on BS5

LarsH — Fri, 01 Oct 2010 00:52:18 GMT

Hi!

It os correct that I want to download music in the highest quality possible, therefore a need of an SACD player does not exist.

Reading on Linn (for example)

http://www.linnrecords.com/linn-download-quality-and-file-type.aspx

"...

Studio Master WMA

If absolute sound quality is what you want then this file is best for you.

WMA files are lossless at various high bit rates for example, 48KHz, 88.2KHz and 96KHz (check each title for actual details). We cannot offer 192KHz masters in the WMA format. This download is offered for those who desire the best sound possible. The quality is identical to that of an SACD (stereo only). The format will be dependent on the actual recording method we used originally. No DSD files are offered as it is not possible to play them back on a PC so an equivalent PCM format is offered. These files offer true "studio quality" and are what was used by Linn to produce the production version of our CD releases. Be sure to check compatibility with your computer sound card etc before you download a file and note that large amounts of storage space are required for each track.

Information for PC Users.
WMA lossless files can be imported and used directly in most PC audio programs including Windows Media Player and iTunes. iTunes will convert the files to AIFF.

Information for Mac Users.
WMA lossless files cannot be imported into iTunes nor have we found a way to convert them to play in other programs. Please do let us know if you find a way around this.

Please note:
We recommend you burn a DVD to create a back-up of your download purchase. Click here for instructions.
You can also play Studio Master files through your digital media receiver or in windows media player.
These files are too large to burn on to a CD and you will not be able to play these files in your CD player.

We will be adding more albums at this quality rate as they become available.
Click here for a full list of all available Studio Master albums.

..."

So, would it be possble to download this and play it on the BS5?

And of course to enjoy higher quality of sound.

BR/Lars

Re: SACD quality on BS5

david coyne — Thu, 30 Sep 2010 18:17:17 GMT

Hi All

Punchers last comment is exactly what i was hoping to hear...

Now another related question.... I presume then I could download a SACD quality file from a site like LINN and place them in itunes? I use itunes as my music player and bypass my mac sound card using a cambridge audio DAC. Is FLAC and WMA compatible with itunes, or does the conversion process downgrade the files anyway?

Apologies if these are stupid questions

Regards

David

Re: SACD quality on BS5

Puncher — Thu, 30 Sep 2010 13:40:13 GMT

Alex:

'SACD quality' can't be achieved on the BeoSound 5. SACD uses a completely different kind of digital to CD players, DVD players, personal computers, MP3 players etc...

'Normal digital' (called PCM) comprises of a huge number of steps 'up and down', which arrive at a very high rate (much like frames from a film).

'SACD digital' (called PWM) is actually more like a strobe light - if the waveform has to go higher, then the digital is made out of a high number of pulses (all of which are the same height). With 'lower' waveforms, the digital doesn't switch on as often.

Both kinds of signals require completely different electronics to be reproduced. Both have their upsides, and downsides. Converting from one to the other just gives you the negative effects of both.

Here are some pictures:

PCM waveform:

PWM waveform:

In the last picture, you can see that the greater 'energy' parts of the wave (the extreme highs and lows) are formed by much more 'on' signals than 'off' signals.

PWM is the principal on which the ICE Power amplifiers work...

I ignored the SACD reference as I believe the OP is referring to downloads from the Linn site etc which are available as FLAC & WMA studio quality recordings of 24bit and up to 192Khz bit rate (only up to 96KHz for the WMA files). I believe he wanted the high resolution files not the necessarily the SACD encoding.

Re: SACD quality on BS5

Alex — Thu, 30 Sep 2010 13:01:45 GMT

'SACD quality' can't be achieved on the BeoSound 5. SACD uses a completely different kind of digital to CD players, DVD players, personal computers, MP3 players etc...

'Normal digital' (called PCM) comprises of a huge number of steps 'up and down', which arrive at a very high rate (much like frames from a film).

'SACD digital' (called PWM) is actually more like a strobe light - if the waveform has to go higher, then the digital is made out of a high number of pulses (all of which are the same height). With 'lower' waveforms, the digital doesn't switch on as often.

Both kinds of signals require completely different electronics to be reproduced. Both have their upsides, and downsides. Converting from one to the other just gives you the negative effects of both.

Here are some pictures:

PCM waveform:

PWM waveform:

In the last picture, you can see that the greater 'energy' parts of the wave (the extreme highs and lows) are formed by much more 'on' signals than 'off' signals.

PWM is the principal on which the ICE Power amplifiers work...

Re: SACD quality on BS5

Puncher — Thu, 30 Sep 2010 11:35:57 GMT

I don't think anyone has had any success playing FLAC files on the BS5 but it is compatible with WMA and so I would download some test tones and maybe a test track of studio quality WMA files from Linn and give them a try to see what happens. If they play you could even download the same track in standard 16bit 44.1KHz lossless WMA to compare directly.

SACD quality on BS5

LarsH — Thu, 30 Sep 2010 08:03:39 GMT

Hi!

I searched the threads but I couldn't really get a good answer.

I am thinking about downloading SACD quality music to the BeoSound 5, in order to get the last bit out of the music.

By downloading from certain sites (Linn, http://sacdlab.cn/ etc) it is fully legal, plus the option to get good quality. Now to the question:

Will BeoSound 5 support and play material stored in SACD quality?

Is this even worth to consider?

Best Regards, Lars

(BeoSound 5, BeoLab 9,++++)