General Forum

Re: FYI for B&O corporate

elephant — Fri, 10 Sep 2010 18:12:59 GMT

superdario:

Alex:

I prefer listening to 128k AAC over 192k MP3 - AAC is an incredibly effective compression algorithm...

My experience was the same, when i've compared LAME MP3 against AAC. The AAC compression algorithm is quite good.

Anyway, did anyone test the beolab 4 PC/Mac connected with a e.g. MacBook Pro? I'm wondering how they'll sound.

Not "tested", but certainly I have used them.

They are fine, in fact I quite like the sound but my ears are shot.

My measure is that I can listen for several hours without any listening fatigue.

I have not tried them with the BeoLab 3 rings as some have suggested elsewhere in the forums.

Re: FYI for B&O corporate

superdario — Fri, 10 Sep 2010 16:47:18 GMT

Alex:

I prefer listening to 128k AAC over 192k MP3 - AAC is an incredibly effective compression algorithm...

My experience was the same, when i've compared LAME MP3 against AAC. The AAC compression algorithm is quite good.

Anyway, did anyone test the beolab 4 PC/Mac connected with a e.g. MacBook Pro? I'm wondering how they'll sound.

Re: FYI for B&O corporate

Alex — Fri, 10 Sep 2010 07:16:01 GMT

soundproof:

You better get in touch with Apple and tell them then, Alex.

I suggest you have a look at this page: http://www.apple.com/itunes/features/
It's quite up to date. Apple did get DRM removed from the catalogue of some music companies - but this is an issue in flux. Some bands have now removed content due to EMI's financial woes, for instance. As you can see below, the authorization remains in place.

I know many labels have removed their content from iTunes lately, but I don't think it's because of DRM issues - all their music can easily be obtained through other sources without DRM as it is anyway!

The DRM on the iTunes store still only remains on Video content (Movies & TV Shows) - none of the music has DRM restrictions any more, although iTunes does store the name of the person who bought the music in the ID3 tags for the music securely, so it can always be traced...

Whether this is true in other countries I don't know, but it certainly applies in the UK and the US.

Re: FYI for B&O corporate

elephant — Fri, 10 Sep 2010 03:54:08 GMT

BeoNut1:

A "$15 billion business"....... will B&O be a part of this?

http://blogs.computerworld.com/16918/interview_apples_airplay_is_a_big_big_business

They should be ...

In fact they even should be ready to take advantage

http://www.macrumors.com/2010/09/09/denon-set-to-roll-out-airplay-on-existing-home-stereo-equipment/

although I guess there is the business question to be answered: "will a new software update for Airplay help us sell more systems and/or new speakers, or will it 'just' make out existing customers happier ?"

and I guess there is the question if Airplay should be added:

a) as an upgrade to the BeoWireless 1 ?

b) as a BeoWireless 2 ?

c) as a new source sitting on an existing MasterLink network ?

I don't know enough about the MLGW to know if that device is the "best" place for B&O to add Airplay to help drive more revenue towards B&O .............

Re: FYI for B&O corporate

soundproof — Fri, 10 Sep 2010 00:25:47 GMT

You better get in touch with Apple and tell them then, Alex.

I suggest you have a look at this page: http://www.apple.com/itunes/features/
It's quite up to date. Apple did get DRM removed from the catalogue of some music companies - but this is an issue in flux. Some bands have now removed content due to EMI's financial woes, for instance. As you can see below, the authorization remains in place.

You're right on mp3, I should stop using tha shorthand. Apple does use the AAC codec - which is very good. Saw a comment by Dave Moulton, who had compared it extensively to other codecs, that he was surprised at how good it is.

I'm just wondering why BS5 blocks ALAC, if it really does.

Here's a snip from the link above. Note that this authorization only applies to purchased content, and that content which you have copied on to your harddisk is free-to-play on whatever peripheral you want:

Re: FYI for B&O corporate

Alex — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 20:49:56 GMT

soundproof:

The iTunes Store files are not lossless, anyway, they are compressed mp3.

Music bought through the iTunes store can be played back on units you have authorized - and I think you can have six units at the same time. But if the 3rd party peripheral can't authenticate as an authorized unit, then no playback. That's a DRM issue, and Apple is trying to have all their music providers remove that.

There are no longer any restrictions on music bought on the iTunes Store, and haven't been for quite some time - Apple managed to get over that hurdle over a year ago!

And not that I'd want to nit-pick or anything but iTunes Store music is 256k AAC (as opposed to MP3), which I've personally found outperforms even LAME MP3 at 320kbps. In fact, I prefer listening to 128k AAC over 192k MP3 - AAC is an incredibly effective compression algorithm...

Re: FYI for B&O corporate

Puncher — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 17:44:51 GMT

I've definitely played ALAC lossless files using Windows Media player before (when using WinXP) - I posted links to the necessary codecs in the BS5 forum at the time. I'd assumed, because BS5 presumably runs on top on WMP, that it would allow BS5 owners to be able to install the same and play Apple lossless from their equipment. The few (maybe only one) who replied claimed not - as I don't have a BS/BM5 I can't disagree.

I know, however, that ALAC isn't restricted to iTunes devotees (although I can't swear that the codecs I used were "allowed").

I'm now running Win7 and haven't tried to play ALAC since.

Re: FYI for B&O corporate

jk1002 — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 17:04:53 GMT

There are plenty of examples of non apple products that play apple lossless so it can be done. Sonos for example.

I normally would not care about what lossless format B&O supports, but, that is a big but, I can't create windows media or whatever they are using from a mac and that is what I use. Not using lossless seems to cause problems with gaps inbetween recordings, annoying for classic or live recordings.

I also don't want to maintain multiple libraries, obviously I have Itunes so I expect that they integrate.

If they can't do that, they do not have a viable digital music product for me. Funny thing is, I kind wait it out until they get their act together.

Just like I waited for a less then 10K$ TV here in the US

Re: FYI for B&O corporate

Harry2008 — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 16:33:30 GMT

linder:

Maybe I should ask a question. Why doesn't B&O support Apple lossless on an over $7000 media player?

Licensing issues. Apple does not offer a license for sale on Apple Lossless. So you either have to use a 3rd party emulator what Linn seems to be doingi or like B&O did decide not to offer support.

Some more info: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Lossless

Some interesting stuff on formats: http://www.linnrecords.com/linn-formats.aspx

Re: FYI for B&O corporate

linder — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 14:52:25 GMT

Thanks soundproof. Although I knew all the items you listed, I guess I wasn't doing a good job of explaining what I had in mind. I rip CDs in iTunes using the Apple losslesss format. If I am going to copy files from iTunes to Beosound 5, I convert the lossless files in iTunes to 320 bps AAC. I then copy the AAC files to BS5 using Beoconnect. I would prefer that B&O add Apple lossless support to Beosound 5.

Maybe I should ask a question. Why doesn't B&O support Apple lossless on an over $7000 media player?

I probably just hijacked this thread which I didn't mean to do. B&O would be foolish not to implement Airplay!

Re: FYI for B&O corporate

soundproof — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 14:05:18 GMT

I suspect you may be confusing restrictions on playback of files purchased through the iTunes Store with ALAC (Apple Lossless).

The iTunes Store files are not lossless, anyway, they are compressed mp3.

ALAC is comparable to FLAC, and is just a lossless compression format, which can be unwrapped with ease into any other container - for instance to AIFF or WAV, and back.

You can play ALAC files using Windows Media Player, if you want. There are lots of ways of making that painless and easy - just do a quick google.

Music bought through the iTunes store can be played back on units you have authorized - and I think you can have six units at the same time. But if the 3rd party peripheral can't authenticate as an authorized unit, then no playback. That's a DRM issue, and Apple is trying to have all their music providers remove that.

But as we're talking of lossless files, then you're free to use ALAC, no restrictions, as that format isn't available through the iTunes Store, and results from you ripping your music to harddisk after having chosen that format.

Re: FYI for B&O corporate

linder — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 13:54:25 GMT

soundproof:

linder:

Apple allowing 3rd party companies to play Apple lossless music on other media servers would be the big change.

Not sure I follow?

There are various 3rd party solutions that use only a part of the Apple platform, while providing other playback chains - and it is in lossless, or even uncompressed Redbook full resolution CD quality, if you want that ...

Airport Express or AppleTV, or a Mac computer, will send/receive at CD-quality, if it gets CD-quality.

But solutions such as Pure Music or Amarra just use the iTunes "filemaker" capabilities, while taking over the output playback with their own drivers (bypassing QuickTime); and there are solutions that even convert every file on your harddisk to WAV, before moving it to an SD card, from which it is played as from a buffer.

There are absolutely no restrictions by Apple on this kind of utilization of their product. You can install iTunes on a PC, have your music on a ReadyNAS and control iTunes on your PC with your mobile phone from Siemens, and use a non-Apple remote control application, and output high-resolution files through the set-up, if you wish.

I was under the impression that media servers such as Beomaster 5 and others such as Mcintosh labs MS750 cannot play Apple lossless files natively due to licensing problems or that Apple has not published technical specifications for Apple Lossless. I would be delighted to be wrong. As a Mac owner, I would love to have the ability to play Apple lossless files on my Beosound 5 natively. I appreciate your advice on the use of other solutions. However like a lot of other users, I want B&O to install everything and that it all works without extraordinary tweaks. Thanks.

Re: FYI for B&O corporate

jk1002 — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 13:44:22 GMT

What I find interesting that I can do this today. Just not from Ipad/Iphone and without ID3 tags. Or maybe better I can't as it doesn't work acceptable to me.

I had 1st gen 3 Airport express and then an Apple. neither is able to play music without hick ups through wireless streaming.

I live in a condo with many wifi networks around.

Somebody try it out first before we are making any kind of calls ....... I have reservations to be honest .......

Re: FYI for B&O corporate

BeoNut1 — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 13:36:21 GMT

A "$15 billion business"....... will B&O be a part of this?

http://blogs.computerworld.com/16918/interview_apples_airplay_is_a_big_big_business

Re: FYI for B&O corporate

soundproof — Thu, 09 Sep 2010 12:58:20 GMT

linder:

Apple allowing 3rd party companies to play Apple lossless music on other media servers would be the big change.

Not sure I follow?

There are various 3rd party solutions that use only a part of the Apple platform, while providing other playback chains - and it is in lossless, or even uncompressed Redbook full resolution CD quality, if you want that ...

Airport Express or AppleTV, or a Mac computer, will send/receive at CD-quality, if it gets CD-quality.

But solutions such as Pure Music or Amarra just use the iTunes "filemaker" capabilities, while taking over the output playback with their own drivers (bypassing QuickTime); and there are solutions that even convert every file on your harddisk to WAV, before moving it to an SD card, from which it is played as from a buffer.

There are absolutely no restrictions by Apple on this kind of utilization of their product. You can install iTunes on a PC, have your music on a ReadyNAS and control iTunes on your PC with your mobile phone from Siemens, and use a non-Apple remote control application, and output high-resolution files through the set-up, if you wish.