General Forum

Re: do I need a BeoLab 2 ???

Alex — Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:52:36 GMT

If you use a BeoLab 2 with BeoLab 9s, you will end up with more bass, and deeper bass. A BeoLab 2 will raise most homes to their foundations if you really push it enough - it's massively powerful, great for music where bass really makes up a large part of the overall sound, such as club music and a lot of dub.

However, the BeoLab 2 does have it's drawbacks. 1, it is a separate subwoofer, and while it is usually maintained that bass below ~ 60ish Hz is practically undirectional (you can't hear where it's coming from), I find I almost always can. I'm not lucky enough to own a BeoLab 2 or B&W PV1, but I do have a Yamaha subwoofer. It's nothing special, but it does the job relatively well considering it's cost (around £160 I seem to remember). However, I recently switched from my large B&W DM7 loudspeakers (which would go deeper than a lot of small subwoofers) to my standmount B&W DM303s, which don't exactly cover the bass to the same extent (I believe they go down to around 80 Hz, and then begin to fall away). I tried using the Yamaha subwoofer with them, but I found even with the crossover frequency set to the lowest it would go (50 Hz), I could still very clearly hear where the sound was coming from (I can only position the subwoofer to the right of the speakers, outside of the 'stereo image' as a result of the way the room is laid out). With Classical and Jazz, it very obviously muddled up the sound, and just made the bass more 'vague' overall (not a result of the subwoofer lacking detail I can assure you). I found that it was slightly better with a lot of modern music such as rock & pop, but electronic and dub/reggae (of which I listen to a lot), it just seemed to distract me from what I was really listening to and didn't add much musically. Now maybe if I could place it somewhere between the two speakers it would sound much better, but whether or not I did this it definitely sounded better as I moved around the room (I often listen off-axis whilst sitting at my desk or whatever), the extra bass really added to electronic music. Great for movies too...

However, I still felt that the whole point in a sound system was so you could enjoy music, and the subwoofer didn't seem to add much...

When the 'subwoofer' becomes built in to speakers however, things change a lot. Part of the reason why I liked my B&W DM7s so much (despite their weaknesses) was the fact that each speaker itself could handle frequencies down to 30 Hz without any major issues, and I even found I could hear a solid 20 Hz tone. It was almost like having a subwoofer built into each speaker, and as a result, instruments such as double and electric basses, pianos, organs and even a lot of synthesizers (think Herbie Hancock's Chameleon and even some club music such as Tayo and Plump DJs) sounded absolutely fantastic down to the lowest registers.

Now as for the BeoLab 2 specifically, it also has it's own strengths and weaknesses when compared to other subwoofers. As I said earlier, it's very very very VERY powerful. It will go much louder than most other subwoofers I've heard, and also goes deeper than most subwoofers which don't take up a silly amount of space. A subwoofer of that size would realistically normally go down to about 35 Hz or so.

However, all this power and 'extension' comes at a price - it does tend to be a little 'slow' at times. Fast basslines and meaty kick drums usually sound quite 'wallowing' when a BeoLab 2 is used. A lot of people may actually prefer this sound, and it doesn't really make much of a difference when you're watching movies. In fact the extra volume is a huge advantage when watching movies, explosions etc... will make you jump from your seat.

It's all a matter of taste. Me personally? I'm fine without a subwoofer thankyou. I find even a small pair of bookshelves such as my B&Ws to be far more than adequate.

Here endeth the needlessly long response. I need to get on with some work!

Re: do I need a BeoLab 2 ???

Jandyt — Tue, 12 Feb 2008 14:44:23 GMT

.....or five, like Dave Moulton!

Re: do I need a BeoLab 2 ???

aweicc — Tue, 12 Feb 2008 10:11:27 GMT

my lab9 was set up by the dealer, I would presume they set it up properly. I like bassy music, I am no audiophile, but even with the lab 2 connected now, I find my self enjoying the music more, but like a few previous post suggested, its a bit hollow, not solid enough. If its a pair of lab 5 then I am sure I don't need a sub.

lab 9 is good, but its bass is still not on par with sub, and if it can't be connected with a sub, then I would feel it is lacking... in a way.

As for surround sound, I only ever used lab 4000 I have never tried it with anything else. but the ultimate would be to have 4 X lab 5s !!

Re: do I need a BeoLab 2 ???

Razlaw — Tue, 12 Feb 2008 09:19:26 GMT

We have Beolab 9s in front and I agree with many of the posters here that a sub is totally unneeded. In fact with our setup, the bass suffers tremendously if a sub is connected. When connecting the sub to the Avant, all bass goes to it and none to the 9s and the sound quality suffers tremendously. Have you tried adjusting the bass setting on the 9s? corner/wall/freestanding?

I do disagree with those who minimize the importance of the rear speakers. We have used 4000s and 6000s as the rears and currently are using 1s for the rears. The sound improvement is huge.

Re: do I need a BeoLab 2 ???

aweicc — Tue, 12 Feb 2008 02:39:29 GMT

I have just purchased beolab 2 to go with my surround system, 2 x lab9 + 2 x lab4000.

Alot of ppl are saying lab9 is deep enough but I still feels it lack punch, considering I listen to artists like 2pac a lot.

Now from this thread I thought I might actually return the lab2 and get a pv1 instead, but I have a few questions I would like to ask.

1. In the menu speaker type, which speaker do I choose if I decide to get a pv1? from what I see, I can only pick B&O speakers.

2. and does pv1 switch it self on and off like lab2 when connected to b&o system?

Re: do I need a BeoLab 2 ???

Alex — Sun, 08 Jul 2007 04:44:12 GMT

Yes you could achieve that vaguely by turning down the bass control, but it's such a crude method of doing it, I really think it would just leave you with a big bass gap where bass is most important, around 100 Hz. By removing those frequencies, it's going to sound really 'empty' and boomy. The Bass control does not control exactly the same frequencies the BeoLab 2 controls.

With a brand X subwoofer, it may work a bit better as you could adjust the frequencies the sub handles, but in all honesty, that's also going to be pretty crude, as a filter gently rolls off frequencies, rather than just cutting them off alltogether. If you set the frequency to say, 80 Hz, then 80 Hz won't actually be reduced at all, and then 70 Hz will only be slightly reduced, 60 Hz reduced to a greater degree, 50 Hz reduced even more and so on and so forth until all the sound has been filtered off at a much lower frequency. There are two main kinds of filters, 12 dB/Octave and 24 dB/Octave. Mixing the two with one acting as a high-pass filter and the other as a low-pass filter will just result in incredibly lumpy and nasty bass response.

Re: do I need a BeoLab 2 ???

Dave — Sun, 08 Jul 2007 01:55:36 GMT

Alex:
I'd try it without the BeoLab 2 at first, and then add one if you really feel it lacks punch. I've found the BeoLab 9s to be far more capable in terms of performance in low frequencies (although maybe not as loud).
For those of you who were confused about what I said, when you connect like this:
PowerLink outputs --> BeoLab 2 --> BeoLabs
the BeoLab 2 filters of any deep deep bass from single it passes to the BeoLabs. The PV1 has no line-level filter built in, and hence there is no way of connecting it in such a way that the PV1 will reduce the bass load on the BeoLabs (which would allow them to sound much better).

you could just go into the sound options of the B&O cd player and turn the bass down a bit...? Am i right that with playing with these settings and on the sub you could achive a balance sound (i wouldn't bother with a pv1 if i had BL9's but the BL4000's need more punch)

Re: do I need a BeoLab 2 ???

Peter — Sat, 07 Jul 2007 17:15:08 GMT

I might try a PV1 for the main room and use the BL2 with my AV9000 which does not have a sub woofer channel.

Re: do I need a BeoLab 2 ???

Bulgarien — Sat, 07 Jul 2007 17:00:09 GMT

Offcourse are beoLab 2 a good subwoofer, and it will help in all kinds of set-up, but its a fact that Pv1 sound much better.

For those that already have bought a BL2 I´m sure the are happy with the Beolab 2, becouse they have proberly never listen to others, but if they compare to for exsamle to PV1 they will notice difference, and their will understand that a subwoofer can make sound on many differens way, just like normal speakers will do.

The point is, at for the half of price of beolab 2, there are so many others subwoofers that can make it better then B&O can do.

I am a real BeoMan, but if B&O only have this one, a very expensive but ordinary subwoofer on the program, then I will buy another brand.

B&W PV1 are perfect for a real BeoMan.

You get the best (like B&O normal do) and becouse they using the ICEpower you still get the best from B&O

Re: do I need a BeoLab 2 ???

Alex — Sat, 07 Jul 2007 15:37:36 GMT

Peter:
Just to redress the balance a little, I think my BL2 is superb as an AV sub woofer and regard it as one of my best buys. I don't find that when used with Pentas that it lacks punch at all.
Each to their own though.

I would suggest that at some point you try a PV1! It's a very very good subwoofer, considerably better than the BeoLab 2 IMO, although that doesn't make the BL2 a bad buy. It's a good subwoofer if you're willing to spend quite a large amount, and design wise, I prefer it to the PV1. Also, in a stereo setup with say, BeoLab 3s I would actually choose it over the PV1 for it's filtering capabilities, and because it plays LOUD (and I like loud ).

Re: do I need a BeoLab 2 ???

Peter — Sat, 07 Jul 2007 14:14:05 GMT

Just to redress the balance a little, I think my BL2 is superb as an AV sub woofer and regard it as one of my best buys. I don't find that when used with Pentas that it lacks punch at all.

Each to their own though.

Re: do I need a BeoLab 2 ???

beobeo — Sat, 07 Jul 2007 12:03:43 GMT

Bouncer:

Hi there,
I am new here. I have paid a deposit (but I think I can still make some minor adjustments) for Beovision 7-32, Beolab 9, Beolab 4000 and Beolab 2 as sub. Having read your comments. Do you think its a good idea to keep the Beolab 2 or save the money for something else?
Thanks guys.

If I were you I would not order the BL2 and replace the BL4000 with BL3. That's what I did and are very happy. Still if you decide to keep de 4000's, I don't think the BL2 will do much improvement to your BL9's.

Re: do I need a BeoLab 2 ???

Alex — Sat, 07 Jul 2007 11:28:40 GMT

The BeoLab 2 is definitely slow and cannot keep up with fast basslines, as Bulgarien says, it's just very vague and doesn't sound anywhere near as 'detailed' as the BeoLab 9s.

Plays very loud though! Louder than a PV1, but I doubt you'd ever push it that hard. If you do, then BeoLab 5s are really what you need...

Re: do I need a BeoLab 2 ???

Bulgarien — Sat, 07 Jul 2007 10:36:39 GMT

No, its was not possible at that time, but I can say that the biggest problem with Beolab 2 are lake of punch and the bass defination are not clear but more like rumbling.

Beobloke describe the sound from BeoLab 2 as" nasty, boomy, thumpy little box with an appalling lack of timing"

Re: do I need a BeoLab 2 ???

Doc — Sat, 07 Jul 2007 10:29:51 GMT

Did you compare them "side by side" ?