General Forum

Re: BEOLAB 6002 AND BEOLAB 8002'S :)

Evan — Tue, 10 Aug 2010 22:37:30 GMT

mediabobny:

Here's a link to the discussion about the passive BL8000 clones. Apparently the auction for them was cancelled, undoubtedly at the request of B&O

Thanks.

I thought I would start a huge fire on here by asking about these!

Re: BEOLAB 6002 AND BEOLAB 8002'S :)

mediabobny — Mon, 09 Aug 2010 22:03:56 GMT

Here's a link to the discussion about the passive BL8000 clones. Apparently the auction for them was cancelled, undoubtedly at the request of B&O

Re: BEOLAB 6002 AND BEOLAB 8002'S :)

Evan — Mon, 09 Aug 2010 19:11:03 GMT

Peter,

I know this is a total blasphemy, but do you know any more details about the Rocket clone?

Re: BEOLAB 6002 AND BEOLAB 8002'S :)

Evan — Mon, 09 Aug 2010 19:11:02 GMT

Peter,

I know this is a total blasphemy, but do you know any more details about the Rocket clone?

Re: BEOLAB 6002 AND BEOLAB 8002'S :)

Peter — Fri, 06 Aug 2010 12:08:33 GMT

The panels of course also had a bass rise built into the amplifiers - very cleverly! The panels alone are slightly unsatisfactory unlike the Pentas which have a pretty flat response except for the ultimate bass. However just because Pentas have a flat response in passive mode does not make them better than the 8000s etc. Speakers in this case should be judged as a package and 8000s are a jolly good one.

Passive speakers with a flat response have to obey certain rules, hence the usual shape. You need a decent volume for the bass driver and less for the midrange and next to nothing for the tweeter. You can therefore package the tweeter and midrange as you want, thus the huge numbers of satellite speakers of varying shapes, and a big box for the bass notes - the sub-woofer. Or you play with the amplifier and let you imagination run free - the B&O route. You can't have both therefore beautiful speakers like the 8000 have to be active. Or you get the speakers like the Rocket which is an 8000 clone but in passive!

Re: BEOLAB 6002 AND BEOLAB 8002'S :)

burantek — Fri, 06 Aug 2010 11:53:14 GMT

Cleviebaby:
My point about ATC is that, to make a high quality speaker that is viable as both an active and passive design is really challenging and Peter's comments about the 8000 and 6000 design is that it only works because the amp is designed to overcome an extraordinarily limiting shape - the drainpipe.

And precisely why I brought up the Pentas and Panels... they worked successfully either actively or passively and of couse, were marketed in both flavors. There is nothing wrong w/ the drainpipes... both the 6000 and the 8000 are likely the most beautiful speakers ever made -B&o or otherwise. They simply won't do as passives -I agree with that. My suggestion was to keep them active, and perhaps adding some form of ALT.

Back to a new speaker that could be marketed akin to the Pentas and Panels... I think it would be a great idea. The brilliance of these two designs was the simplicity of amping them and making the amps nearly LEGO pieces in the designs of each. The fact that B&o decided to go a pure active route (BV1 excluded) didn't mean that passives went the way of VHS tapes. I think all B&o really ended up doing was to remove themselves from a huge segment of a market that never disappeared.

Design a new speaker as a passive first... make the amp a "plug in" design component. Economies of manufacturing and marketing a new dual speaker can only be a good thing. Speakers are, arguably, the best thing they do.

I'd like to see them return to this market... and PROFIT!

Re: BEOLAB 6002 AND BEOLAB 8002'S :)

Cleviebaby — Fri, 06 Aug 2010 11:23:08 GMT

Stephan:

The ATC stuff you mentioned..... guess what... Butt ugly as well.

A very well articulated and incisive critique which I wouldn't disagree with, although the actual cabinet work is outstanding and certainly as good as the standard of B&O veneers of 40 years ago. But as I said, a box is still a box, however nice the figuring of the wood.

The point made earlier in this thread was about making both active and passive versions of the same speaker. My point about ATC is that, to make a high quality speaker that is viable as both an active and passive design is really challenging and Peter's comments about the 8000 and 6000 design is that it only works because the amp is designed to overcome an extraordinarily limiting shape - the drainpipe. B&O did a great job in overcoming those limitations.

Cleve

Re: BEOLAB 6002 AND BEOLAB 8002'S :)

cooldude — Fri, 06 Aug 2010 11:16:27 GMT

burantek:

An interesting take... with a spin.

Vox or Lab... historically Pentas or Panels.

Disconnect the amps... et viola!

I would LOVE to see a modern take on both.

Manufacturing simplicity and meeting price points in one go!

I would be first in line for a Mondrian Mk. II

I'll be in line right behind you, Jaff...

Re: BEOLAB 6002 AND BEOLAB 8002'S :)

Stephan — Fri, 06 Aug 2010 10:51:39 GMT

The ATC stuff you mentioned..... guess what... Butt ugly as well.

Re: BEOLAB 6002 AND BEOLAB 8002'S :)

Stephan — Fri, 06 Aug 2010 10:50:02 GMT

" Meridian are the stand-out example and it is arguable that the bigger DSP models are more beautiful as pieces of both industrial design and styling than the current Beeolab 5 - as well as performing exceptionally well "

Nah!

Sorry, but those speakers are butt-ugly!

Re: BEOLAB 6002 AND BEOLAB 8002'S :)

Cleviebaby — Fri, 06 Aug 2010 07:30:59 GMT

Peter :

A passive version of these speakers would be very difficult to make sound reasonable. The amplifiers are used to boost the bass and generally flatten out the problems of putting small speakers in a drainpipe!

This perhaps demonstrates that the styling came first rather than the design! In some ways the later actives like the Beolab 5 are more like products of the 'form following function' school than the 8000 and 6000.

There are huge advantages to active loudspeakers that are well known. but few manufacturers have gone down that route exclusivley other than B&O. Meridian are the stand-out example and it is arguable that the bigger DSP models are more beautiful as pieces of both industrial design and styling than the current Beeolab 5 - as well as performing exceptionally well

The only company I can think of that make both active and passive versions of the same loudspeaker are ATC in England. See link http://www.atcloudspeakers.co.uk/product.php

Excellent speakers with lovely cabinet work but virtually indistinguishable from any other good speaker manufactirers when it come to how they look - a box is still a box!

Cleve

As far as manufacturing both truly active loudspeakers as well as passive, there aren't many companies doing that successfully that I am aware of. s

Re: BEOLAB 6002 AND BEOLAB 8002'S :)

Peter — Fri, 06 Aug 2010 01:01:02 GMT

A passive version of these speakers would be very difficult to make sound reasonable. The amplifiers are used to boost the bass and generally flatten out the problems of putting small speakers in a drainpipe!

Re: BEOLAB 6002 AND BEOLAB 8002'S :)

Evan — Thu, 05 Aug 2010 20:47:11 GMT

burantek:

evman140:
new customers who are used to passive speakers (a huge majority of people).

BINGO, BANGO, BONGO... as an old prof of mine used to say...

Not exactly for this thread... but I thought an option between active/passive made more sense than just more amp choices.

With that said... I hope that any 600(2) or 800(2) would at least add some form of ALT -elevating or otherwise.

Sounds like we need to fly to Denmark and pitch this!

Do you think that a new line of passive speakers would demand a new set of [B&O] receivers with integrated amps? Like regular receivers? This would also allow B&O to play the same game in reverse, your non B&O speakers powered by a B&O receiver...

EDIT

Conventional style B&O receivers would also extend the facilities of integration and other standard features B&O has made standard in its music centers but available at a lower price.

Re: BEOLAB 6002 AND BEOLAB 8002'S :)

burantek — Thu, 05 Aug 2010 20:34:38 GMT

evman140:
new customers who are used to passive speakers (a huge majority of people).

BINGO, BANGO, BONGO... as an old prof of mine used to say...

Not exactly for this thread... but I thought an option between active/passive made more sense than just more amp choices.

With that said... I hope that any 600(2) or 800(2) would at least add some form of ALT -elevating or otherwise.

Re: BEOLAB 6002 AND BEOLAB 8002'S :)

Evan — Thu, 05 Aug 2010 20:25:07 GMT

burantek:

evman140:

It would be neat if you could opt one way or the other, as I'm sure there are advantages to both amps.

An interesting take... with a spin.

Vox or Lab... historically Pentas or Panels.

Disconnect the amps... et viola!

I would LOVE to see a modern take on both.

Manufacturing simplicity and meeting price points in one go!

I would be first in line for a Mondrian Mk. II

Its something B&O is really without these days, optionability (I guess you would call it) and you nailed it perfect Jeff. The brand would get a lot of new attention and new customers who are used to passive speakers (a huge majority of people). This would allow for those hybrid/mix systems that are so widespread (differing brands combined).