General Forum

Re: AST Help & Understanding

Razlaw — Thu, 20 May 2010 08:23:07 GMT

Thanks!

Re: AST Help & Understanding

geoff martin — Thu, 20 May 2010 07:38:15 GMT

Almost at random... make sure that you can view the TV screen from the viewing position.... Apart from that, it really doesn't matter where it is. :-)

Cheers

-geoff

Re: AST Help & Understanding

Razlaw — Thu, 20 May 2010 07:34:32 GMT

Thank you very much. Makes complete sense now that I understand the viewing position is merely a measuring point that can be the same as a listening preset, but does not have to be. It is just a point chosen at random within the viewing field so that the system knows which side everything is on. Thank you again!

Re: AST Help & Understanding

geoff martin — Thu, 20 May 2010 01:59:54 GMT

Razlaw:

Thank you very very much. I am still confused about a couple of issues.

When in the set up menu and measuring all of the points from point A and B, one of the points measured to is viewing position. What is that position and how does it relate to the positions used with the presets obtained using the three speakers?

Also, as for setting the rotation, is the merely a matter of taste as to which direction one prefers the sound to be coming from while listening from a specific preset location?

This is a little more difficult to explain...

When you put in the distances from the speakers to points A and B, the system triangulates and converts the measurements into an X-Y location in space for each loudspeaker. (See the figure below...)

However, there is a problem. If we just get those two distances, we don't know which side of the wall you're on... See the figure below as an illustration.

So, how can we find out whether you're in the LEFT universe or the RIGHT universe? This is where the TV Left, TV Right and Viewing Position measurements are used. By asking for these three, we can make the decision... See the figure below.

Notice that, on the LEFT side of the wall, the position that should be TV Left is on the right of the viewer. Therefore it's wrong... so we now know which side of the wall you're on.

Essentially, this is the only reason for putting in a Viewing Position. The TV L and TV R are used to remember where the television is (for the default rotation of 0 degrees in the presets).

Remember that the Viewing Position is not used for any of the listening presets - you have to have a Listening Position for those. However, the Listening Position and the Viewing Position could be in the same place.

To answer your second question - yes. Your rotation is simply a matter of taste. Personally, I ignore the display and set the rotation by ear.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

-geoff

Re: AST Help & Understanding

geoff martin — Thu, 20 May 2010 01:44:19 GMT

tkl95:

On topic 4, I have indeed a very symmetrical setup in a 6x5m room.

In that case, AST would probably be of no benefit to you. It's a solution to a problem - but you do not have that problem... :-)

Cheers

-geoff

Re: AST Help & Understanding

Razlaw — Wed, 19 May 2010 14:23:14 GMT

geoff martin:

Razlaw:

However, I am confused as a menu appears that says Distance 1, Distance 2, Distance 3, Rotate and allows settings to be changed for all four of these. I do not see this menu anywhere in the user guide. What is it for? Selecting one of the distance options will produce a tone from one of the 5 connected speakers. I took a guess and measured from the listening position to the speaker emitting the tone and that seemed to improve the results but am not sure if that is what it is for.

Hi,

This is the menu where you create your preset. The AST algorithm need to know two things

1. where are you sitting?

2. In which direction are you facing?

To answer the first question, the menu asks how far away your listening position is from each of three loudspeakers. These are the three Distances that it's asking for. You should measure the distance from your listening position to the loudspeaker that's making the noise. Based on these three Distances, the system triangulates your location (since it already knows where the loudspeakers are from the Distance to A and B menus in the Loudspeaker Setup procedure).

To answer the second question, you set the rotation. Note that, in the TV and Cinema preset, you are not asked for a rotation, since it is preset to be the direction of the television (or screen) from the listening position.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

-geoff

Thank you very very much. I am still confused about a couple of issues.

When in the set up menu and measuring all of the points from point A and B, one of the points measured to is viewing position. What is that position and how does it relate to the positions used with the presets obtained using the three speakers?

Also, as for setting the rotation, is the merely a matter of taste as to which direction one prefers the sound to be coming from while listening from a specific preset location?

Re: AST Help & Understanding

tkl95 — Wed, 19 May 2010 13:50:00 GMT

Hi Geoff,

Thanks for the quick response.

On topic 4, I have indeed a very symmetrical setup in a 6x5m room.

I'll get in touch with the local dealer on the upgrade.

Best regards,

Re: AST Help & Understanding

geoff martin — Wed, 19 May 2010 08:34:23 GMT

Hi,

I need to know more in order to help you. You say "the echo problem". Can you be more specific? Which speakers are early and which are producing the echo?

Cheers

-geoff

Re: AST Help & Understanding

geoff martin — Wed, 19 May 2010 08:32:49 GMT

tkl95:

1.) Is it true that I need to purchase a new Beosystem 3 in order to have AST?

2.) Or can my Dec 2006 Beosystem 3 be upgraded with the AST module and about how much would that cost?

3.) I currently have 1xBL7.1, 1xBL2, 4xBL5, so currently my BL2 does not produce any sound anymore. B&O statement was is normal BL5 overrules. Would with AST also the BL2 play sound or would it be better t sell it as no sound would be produced as today?

4.) Looking at the current speaker set I have, would there really be any advantage of AST?

5.) Would I really need to purchase a Beo5 in order to use AST, or is it only to configure AST and I can use afterwards my Beo4. (The only reason I don't have a Beo5 is because of the very poor battery, my Beo4 goes 1.5 years, while Beo5 does not go 1.5 day without recharge).

6.) When will Beosystem 3 have an update to HDMI 1.3?

Hi,

Some short answers...

1) No.

2) I think that a BeoSystem3 from 2006 needs a software and a hardware upgrade. I don't know what this would cost - you'd have to contact your local dealer for this info.

3) Given that you have 4xBL5, you would be downgrading your audio to route bass signals to the BL2, since the four BL5's have better bass capabilities than the BL2. I would suggest that you should sell it.

4) It depends on the placement of your speakers more than the models that you have. If you have a reasonably good, symmetrical setup similar to the standard recommendations (see this link for details), the AST will probably not help you. If your loudspeaker placement is poor, then AST might give you an improvement.

5) Although it is technically possible to use a Beo4 to control AST and change presets, it is certainly inconvenient, since any changes must be made by going through the setup menus instead of selecting things directly from the remote.

6) I'm afraid that I don't know the answer to this... Sorry...

Cheers

-geoff

Re: AST Help & Understanding

geoff martin — Wed, 19 May 2010 08:23:49 GMT

Razlaw:

However, I am confused as a menu appears that says Distance 1, Distance 2, Distance 3, Rotate and allows settings to be changed for all four of these. I do not see this menu anywhere in the user guide. What is it for? Selecting one of the distance options will produce a tone from one of the 5 connected speakers. I took a guess and measured from the listening position to the speaker emitting the tone and that seemed to improve the results but am not sure if that is what it is for.

Hi,

This is the menu where you create your preset. The AST algorithm need to know two things

1. where are you sitting?

2. In which direction are you facing?

To answer the first question, the menu asks how far away your listening position is from each of three loudspeakers. These are the three Distances that it's asking for. You should measure the distance from your listening position to the loudspeaker that's making the noise. Based on these three Distances, the system triangulates your location (since it already knows where the loudspeakers are from the Distance to A and B menus in the Loudspeaker Setup procedure).

To answer the second question, you set the rotation. Note that, in the TV and Cinema preset, you are not asked for a rotation, since it is preset to be the direction of the television (or screen) from the listening position.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

-geoff

Re: AST Help & Understanding

tkl95 — Tue, 18 May 2010 14:19:05 GMT

Hi Geoff,

I have a few questions regarding AST.

1.) Is it true that I need to purchase a new Beosystem 3 in order to have AST?

2.) Or can my Dec 2006 Beosystem 3 be upgraded with the AST module and about how much would that cost?

3.) I currently have 1xBL7.1, 1xBL2, 4xBL5, so currently my BL2 does not produce any sound anymore. B&O statement was is normal BL5 overrules. Would with AST also the BL2 play sound or would it be better t sell it as no sound would be produced as today?

4.) Looking at the current speaker set I have, would there really be any advantage of AST?

5.) Would I really need to purchase a Beo5 in order to use AST, or is it only to configure AST and I can use afterwards my Beo4. (The only reason I don't have a Beo5 is because of the very poor battery, my Beo4 goes 1.5 years, while Beo5 does not go 1.5 day without recharge).

6.) When will Beosystem 3 have an update to HDMI 1.3?

Kind regards,

Re: AST Help & Understanding

Razlaw — Sun, 16 May 2010 15:09:42 GMT

I have continued to test the AST. It is very interesting that one can rotate the sound stage. As this is being done the BV7 displays how many degrees of rotation there are. Also, the BV7 will display which listening preset has been selected, such as CHAIR, or whatever label has been selected by the user.

However, I am confused as a menu appears that says Distance 1, Distance 2, Distance 3, Rotate and allows settings to be changed for all four of these. I do not see this menu anywhere in the user guide. What is it for? Selecting one of the distance options will produce a tone from one of the 5 connected speakers. I took a guess and measured from the listening position to the speaker emitting the tone and that seemed to improve the results but am not sure if that is what it is for.

Thanks!

Re: AST Help & Understanding

Razlaw — Sun, 16 May 2010 12:29:22 GMT

Have now tried AST. I am undecided if I like the sound better with or without it. There is a noticeable difference between having it on and off.

Re: AST Help & Understanding

sethach — Fri, 14 May 2010 06:55:50 GMT

Hi Geoff

I found this thread because I have a problem, which should be solved in conjunction with AST.
Here comes my problem:
Since 1991 I have B&O products, and I have build up quite a lot of masterlinked devices. In 2006 I build a new house, all over with ML.
In 2008 I replaced the BV Avant by a BV 7-40. Besides other rooms I have one big room with a Dolby Digital setup (with the 7-40), a dining area with beolab 3500, and a kitchen area with beolink passive.

With the installation of the 7-40 I have the echo problem, which makes me crazy. It is not possible, to watch apple TV, i.e. pictures with background music an all speakers, incl. the link speakers. Same problem while watching TV. All with echo. The echo is gone when I select P-Mute, but watching TV this is not really helpful. I have contacted beocare, wrote a letter to the headquarter of B&O in germany, bothered my dealer, but no one could help me. It seems, that this problem was simply ignored. From the dealer in my area I can learn that this is a big problem, and there is no solution (of course they tried the sound delay thing, but it was no help at all).

So I am on the way to repleace/renew the B&O devices step by step. The BeoPort is already gone...
Now I got the information from my dealer that with the AST version of the DSM my problem can be solved. That is the good news, the bad news is that it will cost app. 500€. If the problem is really solved, I will spend the 500€. Can you confirm that the echo problem will be gone with a new DSM module?

My current 7-40 has the DSM MK1, and my dealer told me that my system needs a new software and at least DSM MK2.

Thanks

Re: AST Help & Understanding

beojeff — Mon, 10 May 2010 05:59:25 GMT

Razlaw, you are correct. I've been enjoying 7.1 LPCM on my BeoSystem 3 using all 7 speakers. After a lot of research, I've found that the issue with the BeoSystem 3 not playing the rear speakers in a 7 speaker setup with 5.1 LPCM blu-rays is an issue with "matrixing." The BS3 is not able to matrix 5.1 LPCM sound to use all 7 speakers. However, the BS3 CAN matrix 5.1 Dolby Digital into 7 speakers. As Geoff said, it can be a matter of personal taste. Some purists would prefer listening to a blu-ray movie with the soundtrack as it was intended. I, however, like having the added sound from the rear speakers. It would be nice to have this option.

I really wish that B&O would correct the menu so that it correctly shows 7.1 LPCM when that is, indeed the signal being sent and played. It's rather confusing to see 5.1 as the output on the menu when you know that it's 7.1.

Once you have the extra 2 speakers added to your setup, I could suggest some movies for you to listen to for taking advantage of those extra speakers. The first two Harry Potter movies in the Ultimate Edition (the big boxes - not the original small cases) are 6.1. Also, the Lord of the Rings trilogy is in 6.1. All of the original generation of Star Trek films are 7.1 (however, the New Generation movies are not). Sleeping Beauty is delightful in 7.1 Enjoy!