General Forum

Re: Alternative surround options?

Evan — Wed, 21 Apr 2010 09:09:20 GMT

TripEnglish:

Is it necessary to make the upgrade right now? There may be something for you in the future...

Definitely not now, my first real big ticket purchase probably wont be until 2015 at its earliest [:'(]

Re: Alternative surround options?

tv800 — Tue, 20 Apr 2010 06:05:51 GMT

??!?!?!????......

That comment can not stand alone!! .... PLLEEEEEASE tell some more ..... no not "please" .. You HAVE to tell more! §:-)

Re: Alternative surround options?

tv800 — Sun, 18 Apr 2010 08:46:25 GMT

To TripEnglish:

Is it necessary to make the upgrade right now? There may be something for you in the future...

??!?!?!????......

That comment can not stand alone!! .... PLLEEEEEASE tell some more ..... no not "please" .. You HAVE to tell more! §:-)

Re: Alternative surround options?

Sun, 18 Apr 2010 05:25:21 GMT

I've been watching this topic with interest. I've had my B&O for several years but have only just realised that if my Avant dies then buying a non B&O tv would be so problematic with regards to my surround/Lab 2 set-up. The Beosystem 3 is ridiculously priced and I dont think any of the new BeoVisions are worth it.

Re: Alternative surround options?

TripEnglish — Sat, 17 Apr 2010 20:16:21 GMT

Is it necessary to make the upgrade right now? There may be something for you in the future...

Re: Alternative surround options?

Evan — Sat, 17 Apr 2010 18:58:59 GMT

I have spent alot of time ooking over peter pan's thread, very useful stuff! I appreciae you're offer to help. I will definitely bring all of this up again when I am closer to getting a new setup, thanks!

Re: Alternative surround options?

Toubro — Sat, 17 Apr 2010 00:45:54 GMT

Peter Pan from the danish forum has a lot of threads about connecting Beolabs to non-Beo equipment. You can try and google translate his thread for full info. Some of the text is embedded in the pictures though, but if you want I can translate it for you.

To recap some of it, a cable like this can be made:

Here a powerlink MK.III plug is seen where the green and red wires are the right and left signal and the blue is digital ground.
The yellow wire is the trigger signal, and needs to be between 2,5V and 6V, which means you can use a USB port for example. Some surround receivers have trigger outputs, but these are normally 12V. These can be downconverted to 5V easily using a 7805 voltage regulator or a zener diode and a resistor.

Re: Alternative surround options?

Evan — Fri, 16 Apr 2010 07:54:13 GMT

tournedos:

evman140:

I always thought that a pre-out carried a simple line out signal...? So if the pre-outs do not carry the volume control, what does that? And to try and further understand - what is the difference between pre-outs and volume controlled outputs?

I'll explain in another way There is no volume control whatsoever in the Beolabs, no matter how they are connected. They are always at 100% full volume. Even if they have a display for the volume, it only displays the volume setting of the receiver, nothing changes in the speaker itself when you adjust the volume.

Yes, the preamp outs are line level, but they need to be variable - or volume controlled - line level, so that the signal level goes down with the volume control of the receiver. This is opposed to fixed line level, such as the tape rec outs.

I'm sure I've seen a silly amp/receiver or two which had the volume (and tone) controls AFTER the preamp to power amp links. These would be useless with active speakers without some other means of adjusting the volume. Same problem arises when you try to connect external active speakers directly to (non-B&O) TV sets. Sadly most of them only offer fixed level line outputs.

Okay, that makes sense. My curiosity comes from me being pretty partial to those Japanese boxes(So much tech!!! ). None of the ones I have are new enough to have these pre-outs and things. I just think it will be the only way to afford B&O speaks, at least for a while. I really appreciate the explanations guys!

Re: Alternative surround options?

tournedos — Fri, 16 Apr 2010 02:29:31 GMT

evman140:

I always thought that a pre-out carried a simple line out signal...? So if the pre-outs do not carry the volume control, what does that? And to try and further understand - what is the difference between pre-outs and volume controlled outputs?

I'll explain in another way There is no volume control whatsoever in the Beolabs, no matter how they are connected. They are always at 100% full volume. Even if they have a display for the volume, it only displays the volume setting of the receiver, nothing changes in the speaker itself when you adjust the volume.

Yes, the preamp outs are line level, but they need to be variable - or volume controlled - line level, so that the signal level goes down with the volume control of the receiver. This is opposed to fixed line level, such as the tape rec outs.

I'm sure I've seen a silly amp/receiver or two which had the volume (and tone) controls AFTER the preamp to power amp links. These would be useless with active speakers without some other means of adjusting the volume. Same problem arises when you try to connect external active speakers directly to (non-B&O) TV sets. Sadly most of them only offer fixed level line outputs.

Re: Alternative surround options?

macjonny1 — Thu, 15 Apr 2010 23:52:38 GMT

I looked into this extensively before I purchased my BS1, and the only issue you will have is the potential for the rear surrounds to click on and off during quiet times of the movie. I have discussed personally this question with someone who has a relatively cheap DENON receiver with pre-outs and it works fine for them. Yes, the pre-outs on the surround and other receivers will give you volume control. Below is an excerpt of a discussion I had with Steve from SoundsHeavenly.com, who also apparently doesn't use a B&O surround receiver:

From Steve:

The only downside with a non-B&O receiver is that the Beolab speakers will be running in "Line" mode, so they will click back to standby if they don't hear any sound for 3 minutes (but not a problem if you're an action-movie fan like me!) They will click on again as soon as the sound starts again. This tends to affect the rear channels most, I have a Trigger Box that I can supply to counteract this problem (and this also allows the use of Powerlink cables with a non-B&O source), but this is for UK/European use only, as it does not work on the power supply in USA - sorry!"

One important piece of information is that this applies to Beolabs with a line mode, and as such would not apply to the BL2 and the BL7.2/7.4/7.6 centers, among possibly others.

Re: Alternative surround options?

Evan — Thu, 15 Apr 2010 16:26:59 GMT

tournedos:

evman140:

All you have to connect is the pre outs? Thats it? Does the signal and volume control go through the same wire? I have always wanted to know how a non B&O reciever and Labs connect. That seems too simple

No volume control at all. When you connect to the line input on the Beolabs, they are basically blasting at full volume all the time - you control the volume with what you feed to them. That is why you need a preamp with controlled volume outputs.

There may be issues with ground loops if/when the Beolabs get their power from a different mains socket than the amp. This might cause a mains hum that prevents the speakers from turning off.

I always thought that a pre-out carried a simple line out signal...? So if the pre-outs do not carry the volume control, what does that? And to try and further understand - what is the difference between pre-outs and volume controlled outputs?

I hope this is also helping those who originally asked!

Re: Alternative surround options?

tournedos — Thu, 15 Apr 2010 14:15:05 GMT

evman140:

All you have to connect is the pre outs? Thats it? Does the signal and volume control go through the same wire? I have always wanted to know how a non B&O reciever and Labs connect. That seems too simple

No volume control at all. When you connect to the line input on the Beolabs, they are basically blasting at full volume all the time - you control the volume with what you feed to them. That is why you need a preamp with controlled volume outputs.

There may be issues with ground loops if/when the Beolabs get their power from a different mains socket than the amp. This might cause a mains hum that prevents the speakers from turning off.

Re: Alternative surround options?

Evan — Thu, 15 Apr 2010 13:34:44 GMT

macjonny1:

The BS3 is a very expensive surround processor and would be overkill for what you need. Unfortunately there aren't a lot of options. I have a 55" Samsung because I wasn't interested in the B&O Tv prices. So, I went with an older (US only) BS1. It is big and clunky, but does the job for me and I got it quite cheap.

Probably your best bet is to get a surround processor from a manufacturer or a receiver with a pre-amp output. Like someone above said you just need the pre-amp outs and then you will run RCA lines to the Beolabs or get an RCA to powerlink adapter. There is one problem with this setup, however. Since the Beolabs will go to standby when they don't get a signal, the rear surrounds will sometimes click on and off during a movie if they do not get any signals in the surround channels. This wouldn't happen so much with an action movie but like dramas, etc where all the info is in the front speakers it may be an annoying issue.

All you have to connect is the pre outs? Thats it? Does the signal and volume control go through the same wire? I have always wanted to know how a non B&O reciever and Labs connect. That seems too simple

Re: Alternative surround options?

Large48 — Thu, 15 Apr 2010 13:15:38 GMT

Look around for a BS 1 or BS 2 there are often some floating around at dealers etc

Re: Alternative surround options?

macjonny1 — Thu, 15 Apr 2010 04:21:43 GMT

The BS3 is a very expensive surround processor and would be overkill for what you need. Unfortunately there aren't a lot of options. I have a 55" Samsung because I wasn't interested in the B&O Tv prices. So, I went with an older (US only) BS1. It is big and clunky, but does the job for me and I got it quite cheap.

Probably your best bet is to get a surround processor from a manufacturer or a receiver with a pre-amp output. Like someone above said you just need the pre-amp outs and then you will run RCA lines to the Beolabs or get an RCA to powerlink adapter. There is one problem with this setup, however. Since the Beolabs will go to standby when they don't get a signal, the rear surrounds will sometimes click on and off during a movie if they do not get any signals in the surround channels. This wouldn't happen so much with an action movie but like dramas, etc where all the info is in the front speakers it may be an annoying issue.