General Forum

Re: Beolab 8000 with ICE power

kammeri — Sat, 20 Mar 2010 07:14:13 GMT

A bit offtopic but I didn't want to start a new one for a question related.

The overview in the products section states that one might be less happy combining a BL2 sub with for example BL8000 for stereo listening. This would exactly be the case that I am planning for, adding a BL2 with the BL8000 to fill in the lower sounds and dynamics the BL8000 lack.

That saying I love the sound of my Pentas when listening to music with the exeption of the shadowed mids. What I would be looking for with the combination of BL8000 and BL2 would be (rather) crisp and detailed mids and highs of the BL8000 with Pentalike lows. Does anyone have experience of this combination in this regard?

Re: Beolab 8000 with ICE power

Alex — Sat, 20 Mar 2010 07:07:51 GMT

But part of the reason the BeoLab 8000 can produce so much low-end from small drivers is because they're so close together, they couple, and you get between 4 and 6 dB of gain at lower frequencies. Fewer cones moving = less air being pushed about = less bass.

I know what you mean about dedicating a driver to the midrange. I do think the BeoLab 8000 and 6000 both suffer to a degree from intermodulation distortion, which is why the midband cleans up so much when you add in a subwoofer.

Re: Beolab 8000 with ICE power

Chrisreunion — Wed, 17 Mar 2010 11:42:03 GMT

I was not thinking of adding a 4th driver, but rather making one of the 4' drivers a real bass woofer, and the other dedicated to midrange only.

Look at BeoLab 7-1: in size & volume, it is a stereo BeoLab 8000 fitting in the cabinet of a single BeoLab 8000! So I'm really certain it's quite easy for B&O to fit the electronics & drivers of BeoLab 7 inside the 8000, which would also bring a real sonic similarity to the system in a home-theater setup (namely BV7 range with 7-1 as center and 8000 as front/rears), not to mention the quite similar looks.

Re: Beolab 8000 with ICE power

Alex — Wed, 17 Mar 2010 07:52:54 GMT

An extra bass driver could be an advantage, but the re-design of the drivers and cabinet would need to be substantial in order to make the new thiele-small parameters between the cones and the cabinet match up.

The cost of doing so would essentially warranty a complete technical redesign from the ground up, by which time, B&O could simply design a new speaker from scratch.

And there would be no difference in terms of standby power. That's to do with the circuitry required to keep the speaker ticking over to accept PowerLink on/off signals and control the amps.

In terms of sonic advantages, ICE Power only really has a true advantage over conventional class A and A/B amps when you start needing large amounts of power (ala BeoLab 5) or when you consider signal to noise ratio (hiss).

Just my 2c. An upgrade to ICE Power would not be for sonic improvements.

Re: Beolab 8000 with ICE power

Chrisreunion — Wed, 17 Mar 2010 07:04:24 GMT

EU regulations? Again? Seriously, they focus on the 2 w stand-by consumption of a loudspeaker but don't bother at all when plasma screens use more than 500 W in use..? Brussels must be a place as isolated from the rest of humanity as Struer can be sometimes.

Going back to the topic, the main reasons for an upgrade to ICE amps in the column speakers for me would be:

- reduction of costs, yes, if they use the same 125 W ICE amps as in Lab 3 or 7, I don't expect less in terms of power

- make Lab 8000 become a 3-way 3-amped speaker, the ICE amps being smaller could be 3 instead of 2, the smaller volume dedicated to the amps could be used to increase the cabinet volume for the bass reflex system, and the lower woofer could play only bass and provide much lower bass than the current speaker (think Lab 7-1 frequency response!).

- reduction of power consumption both in use and in stand-by

Re: Beolab 8000 with ICE power

macsat — Wed, 17 Mar 2010 05:54:13 GMT

The update will not be conducted for cost reasons, but in order to comply with the EU regulations about max stand-by power usage.

Both 6000 and 8000 will be upgraded "soon".

Re: Beolab 8000 with ICE power

Puncher — Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:20:26 GMT

I'm afraid I'm with you in what I expect but one can always hope - look at what they have achieved in the meantime with the BL3 (forgetting the lens) in terms of dragging performance out of a small enclosure!

It depends whether there's any real re-engineering or as you say just a VI exercise.

Re: Beolab 8000 with ICE power

Peter — Tue, 16 Mar 2010 16:05:12 GMT

I agree completely - a conversion to ICE power will be for cost reasons. These are far cheaper and standardising them across the range would seem to be an obvious move. I see no technical reason why they cannot do this - but the limit will still be the drivers. I doubt there will be much difference in sound quality unless the speakers have a major redesign - which I doubt. I hope they do not use the Beolab 4 amplifiers though.

Re: Beolab 8000 with ICE power

koning — Tue, 16 Mar 2010 13:05:31 GMT

I'm afraid that you are right kammeri.

Still I hope for a 'huge' upgrade.

Re: Beolab 8000 with ICE power

kammeri — Tue, 16 Mar 2010 12:30:07 GMT

I agree that lack of bass and power (dynamics) is a real drag on the BL8000. Right now IMO the B&O speaker range lacks the perfect combination between sound quality and looks: the BL5/9 might sound great but I will probably never get used to their (ugly?) design. The BL8000/6000 on the other hand are simply beautiful but as earlier mentioned lack the dynamics required to really enjoy listening to (depending on the type of music of course).

I have to say I am looking forward for an updated version of the BL8000. However I am a bit sceptic that switching from a class AB amplifier to a digital one would really make much of a difference soundwise. I think if there will be an update to class D amplifiers it will be made to cut down the production cost and to add a few new buzzwords to boost their sales.

Re: Beolab 8000 with ICE power

koning — Tue, 16 Mar 2010 11:54:58 GMT

I've been told that the 'new' beolab 8000 with ice power will be available in the summer of 2010.

Re: Beolab 8000 with ICE power

kronzilla — Mon, 22 Feb 2010 17:03:31 GMT

Well actually, a good designed class A/B amp sounds more warm, a class D amp sounds perfect neutral but more like a clinical sound, and i'll get more tired to listening to a Class D amp than a A/B even if it's sound more perfect. Well you have the other side, Class A also, and other brand's are make them, and you can have it with tubes also, each has his individual sound character, it sounds different,so it's more a personal taste i think.

Some ppl are kicking at a pinpoint sharp soundstage,and others prefer a warm bass and smooth pure high's.

Re: Beolab 8000 with ICE power

Peter — Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:40:41 GMT

Have to confess that I simply do not agree. Class D amplifiers do have certain advantages - efficiency is definitely one and the resulting reduction in need for heat sinks, but a good class AB amplifier with years of development is not to be sniffed at. I would far rather B&O spent some more money on the drivers than replace the amplifiers. It would certainly be an easy job - the Beolab 4000 is proof that it can be done but I have not heard of many people who have been stunned by the change in sound quality.

I would far rather that B&O devise an equally stunning new speaker than played around with the 8000.

Re: Beolab 8000 with ICE power

Evan — Mon, 22 Feb 2010 10:27:10 GMT

Chrisreunion:

They upgraded the woofer & ABL settings, but the change was so minor, that there was neither "mark II" change, nor "type nr" modification..you have to check the serial number to see if the 8000 is the 1st or 2nd version; besides, the tech specs have not moved at all..

Well then, I agree! Onward to ICE power!

Re: Beolab 8000 with ICE power

Chrisreunion — Mon, 22 Feb 2010 08:49:16 GMT

They upgraded the woofer & ABL settings, but the change was so minor, that there was neither "mark II" change, nor "type nr" modification..you have to check the serial number to see if the 8000 is the 1st or 2nd version; besides, the tech specs have not moved at all..